Cross-province residency application

[Knovecc]

Hey everyone,

 

Finishing my first year in a Francophone university, I am already SERIOUSLY thinking of leaving Quebec after my MD program. Hopefully a residency for BC, AB or ON. I don't aim for a too hard program, something like internal med (general or subspeciality) would be fine.

 

For now I don't have a special "craving" for going to USA, though it is DEFINITELY a better choice than staying in QC -- so I consider writing USMLE.

 

My questions:

 

1- WHAT ON EARTH do ppl look for in your profile? GPA? Recommendation Letters? MCC score (this one I really doubt its usefulness...we're NOT in US)? Choice of electives?

plz don't tell me that everything will be considered -- I know it. I mean, Which one is THE MOST important?

 

2- Does anyone know if there is a significant disadvantage for students from a French-speaking U? Given that basically ALL our reading materials are in Eng, and I am actually better with English too.

 

3- For USMLE... just for those who did it or who are doing it, when should one start really study preparing the exam? I know ppl mostly take USMLE at the end of 2nd yr, but I mean start studying for that...

 

Thanks a lot;)

[Dany]

Hi knovecc, I am from Quebec too

just asking, why do you want to leave quebec?

[justletmein]

Hi knovecc, I am from Quebec too

just asking, why do you want to leave quebec?

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Dany]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

LOL

Is it THAT bad here in quebec? I heard that the MD's $ is largely increased since 2006...

 

It is true that $$$$ is really a taboo among us med students (well at least in my university!), to the point that I DONT EVEN KNOW THE AVERAGE INCOME OF AN MD (GP an speciality) HERE IN CANADA OR QUEBEC!!!

 

Those outsiders just tell me "don't worry, you'll make a LOT"

And my collegues are like "we're in med to help ppl, NOT for $$$"

 

Fine, but it shouldn't be criminal for me to (at least) have an idea?!?!?

[svp2k5]

Hey everyone,

 

Finishing my first year in a Francophone university, I am already SERIOUSLY thinking of leaving Quebec after my MD program. Hopefully a residency for BC, AB or ON. I don't aim for a too hard program, something like internal med (general or subspeciality) would be fine.

 

For now I don't have a special "craving" for going to USA, though it is DEFINITELY a better choice than staying in QC -- so I consider writing USMLE.

 

My questions:

 

1- WHAT ON EARTH do ppl look for in your profile? GPA? Recommendation Letters? MCC score (this one I really doubt its usefulness...we're NOT in US)? Choice of electives?

plz don't tell me that everything will be considered -- I know it. I mean, Which one is THE MOST important?

 

2- Does anyone know if there is a significant disadvantage for students from a French-speaking U? Given that basically ALL our reading materials are in Eng, and I am actually better with English too.

 

3- For USMLE... just for those who did it or who are doing it, when should one start really study preparing the exam? I know ppl mostly take USMLE at the end of 2nd yr, but I mean start studying for that...

 

Thanks a lot;)

 

The majority of residency programs look at your letter of references, what you did for electives (and to a lesser extant where you did your electives) and any research (i.e. case reports, etc) that you have under your belt.

 

I found that the reference letters were quite important, especially getting letters from different centres. It was also good to have electives done mostly in the specialty you are applying to. Third, if there is a location you want to go to, make sure you do electives there. This is the best way for the program to evaluate how good of a resident you will be.

 

You shouldn't be at any disadvantage because you want to a fracophone school, as long as you can communicate adequately in english. Ottawa is also a good option for you. While on the CaRMS tour, i found that many francophones interviewed at Ottawa as they didn't need to translate their application and Ottawa is the only official bilingual med school.

 

I assume that you know that you apply for internal medicine during your undergrad training then during your PGY 3 year you can apply to subspecialties in internal medicine.

[svp2k5]

LOL

Is it THAT bad here in quebec? I heard that the MD's $ is largely increased since 2006...

 

It is true that $$$$ is really a taboo among us med students (well at least in my university!), to the point that I DONT EVEN KNOW THE AVERAGE INCOME OF AN MD (GP an speciality) HERE IN CANADA OR QUEBEC!!!

 

Those outsiders just tell me "don't worry, you'll make a LOT"

And my collegues are like "we're in med to help ppl, NOT for $$$"

 

Fine, but it shouldn't be criminal for me to (at least) have an idea?!?!?

 

There was a PDF floating around these forums which had the average billing of doctors by specialty and province. It was from early 2000's s the numbers are off. I am sure you can dig it up.

 

I have one from Ontario only, i will list some examples for you (from 2003-2004): Note this include only those who billed over $50,000 that year (i.e. mostly full timers)

 

Family Medicine: $200,600

General Surgery: $313,900

Internal Medicine: $274,900

Radiology: $392,600

Psychiatry: $177,800

Anesthesia: $275,600

Ortho: $320,800

[JCTulip]

1- WHAT ON EARTH do ppl look for in your profile? GPA? Recommendation Letters? MCC score (this one I really doubt its usefulness...we're NOT in US)? Choice of electives?

plz don't tell me that everything will be considered -- I know it. I mean, Which one is THE MOST important?

 

Here my rank in terms of order of importance: reference letter > elective performance > grades (if your school is not pass/fail) & awards > research

 

All are important if you are applying to very competitive specialties - derm, ophthal, ER etc

 

2- Does anyone know if there is a significant disadvantage for students from a French-speaking U? Given that basically ALL our reading materials are in Eng, and I am actually better with English too.

 

I agree with above - no disadvantage as long as your English and communication is good.

 

3- For USMLE... just for those who did it or who are doing it, when should one start really study preparing the exam? I know ppl mostly take USMLE at the end of 2nd yr, but I mean start studying for that...

 

Here's my take: if you come from a traditional lecture based curriculum with good emphasis on basic science, you can wait until summer of 2nd year. Otherwise, you will need to start earlier (ie in 2nd year) to allow yourself time to learn all the nit-picky details not covered in school.

[justletmein]

Family Medicine: $200,600

General Surgery: $313,900

Internal Medicine: $274,900

Radiology: $392,600

Psychiatry: $177,800

Anesthesia: $275,600

Ortho: $320,800

 

In Quebec, the specialties may be similar to this but for sure fam med is significantly lower.

[zuluman007]

Here is a link to the fee-for-service payments for physicians in Canada. I am not a pro at this but since this seems to be only fee-for-service there are obviously misrepresentations in there (psych comes to mind in Quebec where a lot of psychiatrists work on salaries rather than fee-for-service).

 

http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/dispPage.jsp?cw_page=PG_1070_E&cw_topic=1070&cw_rel=AR_1829_E

 

It's from the CIHI (Canadian Institute for Health Information) so it should be pretty solid info.

 

Pages 30-33 are pretty much the info you are looking for.

 

Cheers!

[Knovecc]

I assume that you know that you apply for internal medicine during your undergrad training then during your PGY 3 year you can apply to subspecialties in internal medicine.

 

Merci SVP2k5

No I am NOT francophone a'all...

 

So, by the quoted part, do you mean that, at the end of MD-4, ppl don't really apply for gastroenterology, cardiology, pneumology etc. Rather, they all gotta go through the first 3 yrs together, THEN, they apply (or compete) again?

So there is NO such a concept called "highly competetive IM subspecialtiy" when applying for PGY-1, as at first everyone get into General IM anyways?

 

Another question... how much does one's GPA weigh?

 

Thanks!!

[Knovecc]

thanks JCT!!!

 

seems that I gotta start early now, the goddamned Problem-based study at UdeM...

[zuluman007]

So, by the quoted part, do you mean that, at the end of MD-4, ppl don't really apply for gastroenterology, cardiology, pneumology etc. Rather, they all gotta go through the first 3 yrs together, THEN, they apply (or compete) again?

So there is NO such a concept called "highly competetive IM subspecialtiy" when applying for PGY-1, as at first everyone get into General IM anyways?

 

Exactly. You go through general IM until PGY-3 and then do a 2 or 3 year fellowship in the fields you mentioned. I know nothing about the match process for that but you can safely assume that some are going to be more competitive than others. I'll let someone else chime in with more details about that and your question regarding GPA (I'm wondering the same thing).

[svp2k5]

I am not exactly sure how much weight is given to GPA during CaRMS. My school has Pass/Fail, so really this wasn't a factor unless you failed a course. It should be stressed that by far the most important factors to match to a program are your reference letters, your electives and your interview (Interview > Ref Letters > Electives).

 

In terms of the internal medicine subspecialties, I am definitely not an expert on it, but I believe that Cardiology, Nephrology and GI are among the most competitive.

 

At your stage (I believe you are a first year med student?) I would suggest keeping an open mind on what field you would like to go into, and once you have narrowed it down, really make an effort to do electives in a bunch of different centres. I did electives in four places, and wished I had added a fifth. Its the best way to see if you like the program, and can work with the people within it. It also allows them to more accurately evaluate your interest, enthusiasm, work habits and knowledge.