n00b Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 that's so illogical. med school admissions seems black and white compared to what you described Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supafield Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 that's so illogical. med school admissions seems black and white compared to what you described Again, what do I know.... I was just under the impression that the carms and med school admissions processes weren't too comparable with carms being much more subjective.... But I should leave this for someone who knows/has gone through the process themselves to comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meade Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I disagree. If you never even consider the fact that there are negatives and that there IS a chance you might be disappointed, you are probably gonna end up being one of those people who tell everyone not to go into medicine. An overly idealistic approach sets one up for major disappointment. I think every premed must ask himself or herself that question. I agree that you have to consider the negatives, but it is not an 'overly idealistic' approach. No, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 To the OP, when people tell you they wouldn't choose medicine again, or they don't think that medicine is worth it, you really need to ask them to qualify why. Then judge for yourself whether the things that don`t work so well for them, will be important or manageable for you. Often it isn't the subject of medicine specifically they don't like but rather all the crap that goes along with it. All the things that prevent you from actually doing your job etc. And it is one thing to cerebrally be aware of the sacrifices you will make along the way in medicine. But you really don`t know what it is like and how you will feel until you are actually there, sleep deprived and missing out on life. And some people just don`t manage well on little sleep and irregular schedules....and you don`t know that til you try it. I have just finished medical school, and I feel alot differently now than I did going in. And I was pretty informed on my way in. The nice thing about medicine though...is that there are so many different areas, there is bound to be a place for you somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 i've also heard from a physician that references can be quite influential. if the residency committee has a letter from a colleague, someone they know and trust, it's likely to carry more weight than someone they don't know. I've heard the same thing. It's also supposed to play a bigger role the smaller the specialty is. For instance, in medical genetics (as an example), there is only a few hundred in the country. Therefore, everyone pretty much knows everyone. The bigger programs like family or internal med, are less influenced by refs because there are so many of them in the country, the chances that most of the selection committee knows them is much smaller. Like most jobs, who you know carries lots of weight sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00b Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 so basically where you go to med school is pretty important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 so basically where you go to med school is pretty important Not exactly. You will do away electives at the places you really want to match to, so you have an opportunity to impress the program and make contacts at that time. If you want to match at your home school, you have an advantage in the sense that it is just easier to get known. BUT in most cases it would be hard to predict what specialty/location you will want to match to, so it would be hard to pick your med school solely based on where you think you may want to do residency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00b Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 again, it comes down to a similar question. how do directors choose who can do away electives in their program? it just seems like a fundamental problem when you are evaluating thousands of applicants purely on qualitative measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 To steer this thread slightly off course: do you guys think that, considering that interviews are, arguably, the most crucial component of the CARMS application process, schools who weigh interviews heavily are doing the right thing when it comes to med school admissions? Therefore admitting people who are obviously strong at interviews, which makes it more likely that they'd perform well on CARMS interviews and have more luck in the matching process? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 There is no selection process for away electives that I know of.. usually one applies to the school's electives coordinator on a first-come first-served basis. Often programs only interview a fraction of residency applications, so other factors are important in getting to the interview stage itself. I think that med schools weighting interviews heavily is more a function of them wanting to select the most suitable candidates rather than to have a better match rate.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satsuma Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 again, it comes down to a similar question. how do directors choose who can do away electives in their program? it just seems like a fundamental problem when you are evaluating thousands of applicants purely on qualitative measures. Directors don't choose who can do away electives in their program. You just apply through the electives office and if there is space they will take you (seems pretty much first come first serve - so the earlier you apply the more likely you will get an elective). Of course, there are a few who get electives by contacting the department directly, but it is rather frowned upon. It is true that carms does seem more subjective than med school applications. And you go to the interviews pretty much unsure of what they might be looking for etc. The thing is...in the end, they just want someone they can be happy working with for the next 5 years. It is not so much about academics - if you made it through med school, chances are they figure they can train you to be whatever kind of doc you are applying to become. Whereas applying to med school, they want to be sure you can handle the workload and also interact well with your peers, pts, colleagues etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbene085 Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 To steer this thread slightly off course: do you guys think that, considering that interviews are, arguably, the most crucial component of the CARMS application process, schools who weigh interviews heavily are doing the right thing when it comes to med school admissions? Therefore admitting people who are obviously strong at interviews, which makes it more likely that they'd perform well on CARMS interviews and have more luck in the matching process? Doing an elective with the program you're applying to is really important, just as the interview is; the main reason is that they want to get to know you. I've had more than one program director tell me that, other than competence, the most important factor in picking their new residents is whether or not you seem like the kind of person they want to work alongside. If you won't fit in with the people in that program/their goals for the program, they're setting themselves up for years of grief if they choose you. For example, if it's a high intensity, research-driven program and you're a laid-back person with no research interests and two toddlers to raise, you might not be a good fit. But some programs specifically look for more relaxed people with interests outside of medicine, and in that case, they'll be more likely to take you over a "my life revolves around medicine and I would do it 24/7 if I didn't have to eat or sleep" type of person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00b Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 so if i understand correctly, basically to get a certain residency spot, just do an away elective there lol and you're set. so what about programs that aren't so popular or aren't in big cities. how would people ever fill those spots? i'm sure some programs don't even get any attention so people wouldn't think to do electives there. i don't understand why some quantitative measure isn't used. it's used for literally everything else, why not carms too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Well, you must make an impression, and a positive one, on that away elective. Some fields are so competitive that it is not uncommon for people who did away electives at a program to not receive an interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00b Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 so what's the point of the other 95% of med school? just getting by? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a41 Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 so what's the point of the other 95% of med school? just getting by? Well you know, learning stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madz25 Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Well you know, learning stuff. LOL. thats exactly what i was going to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00b Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 I mean the fact that it has no bearing on residency applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Well, most people get their first choice of program anyway. At Dal this year the first program choice successful match rate was apparently 98%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00b Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 but that could be because applicants are self-selecting, such that if they don't have the academic credentials, they won't apply to the most competitive specialty. but if there aren't any academic credentials to begin with, how does this work? i seem to be repeating the same question over and over again. am i the only one who doesn't get how this would work lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 You do need to work hard to do well in clerkship, and rotation evaluations (and reference letters garnered from those rotations) can carry quite a bit of weight in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00b Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 alright lol i don't think you guys are getting what i was getting at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star1234 Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 lol, poor n00b is getting all confused. I'm no expert, but from what I've gathered, most med schools in Canada are on a pass/fail system....so they can't separate out the residency applicants academically since at the end of the day, all everyone has on their transcripts is a bunch of P's. So basically they evaluate you on the actual person you are ie. based on your EC's and references. Because in reality, if you're already in med school, you're obviously smart. So they just want to pick people with the personality to match that residency position. haha sorry n00b but marks don't matter anymore once you get into med school. You just have to pass. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wut? Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 Preclinical marks don't matter since everything's P/F. Clerkship is difference, because you are graded on a scale and those marks show up on your MSPR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n00b Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 So what's the deal with like ultra competitive "lifestyle" specialties like derm, rads, etc? Those are usually highly sought after and in the US, board scores are one way to differentiate applications. In Canada, people just get picked based on personality? I mean....seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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