Trend of accepting younger students

[neuronix]

Hey guys,

 

I was just wondering what anyone thought about this observation I have made...

 

By looking at McMasters stats this year, it is pretty obvious that most of the class is under the age of 23 (which isnt even that old). Also, Ottawa has cancelled the grad review...leaving many, older, graduate students in the dust.

 

Does anyone think this may be the trend of the future in schools wanting to admit younger students? The only reason I can think of for doing this would be to 'retain' the physicians in the system for longer...although in reality, a few more years of work are pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things.

 

Thoughts?

[rmorelan]

Hey guys,

 

I was just wondering what anyone thought about this observation I have made...

 

By looking at McMasters stats this year, it is pretty obvious that most of the class is under the age of 23 (which isnt even that old). Also, Ottawa has cancelled the grad review...leaving many, older, graduate students in the dust.

 

Does anyone think this may be the trend of the future in schools wanting to admit younger students? The only reason I can think of for doing this would be to 'retain' the physicians in the system for longer...although in reality, a few more years of work are pretty negligible in the grand scheme of things.

 

Thoughts?

 

Isn't about the age of 23 pretty much the standard age for a lot of students - graduate high school at age 17/18, do four years to become now 22/23 and then enter med school? Maybe there just a lot more applicants in that age range then older students.

 

It is interesting because I often hear it the other side as well - greater weight associated with grad work/life experience favours older students etc. Seems to flip flop a lot

[ontariostudent]

I can't comment on Mac but the proportion of grad students at U of T seems to be getting higher and higher. 1/3 of the first year class has grad degrees. That's pretty huge. Very few people got in out of third year.

 

Ottawa may have cancelled the grad review, but that doesn't necessarily mean that fewer grad students will be accepted. They still look at the OMSAS sketch and those with grad degrees will probably stand out there. The only way in which grad students MAY be disadvantaged is that those with low undergrad GPAs may no longer have as much of a chance, but don't underestimate the number of grad students who apply with high undergrad stats and grad productivity. They will stand out with or without the grad review. I am interested to see, though, how the lack of grad review will influence the number of admitted grad students. I'm not sure how much it will change, but I am sure that those grad students with low undergrad grades will no longer have much of a chance. I guess the moral of that story is that if you want to go to Ottawa and your ugpa is low, do a second undergrad and not a grad degree.

[ontariostudent]

Agreed... though there might be some grad students who will actually benefit from this new arrangement.

[rmorelan]

well, most students (including myself) start undergrad at 17 this day of age...meaning that they were done undergrad by 21. I am 23 and just finished my Msc.

 

Now, I 100% realize that I am not 'old' by any means, however, it seems like those two schools in particular are sort of favouring younger students.

 

I don't know...maybe I'm wrong.

 

yeah I guess that is kind of my point - the vast majority of applicants are 23 or younger, so I guess I would expect the vast majority of every class to be about the same. I though the average age was 24/25 which has a few older students pulling up the average a bit.

 

I have to wonder if it isn't the schools favouring things so much as the rest of life acting as selective mechanism. Older students (myself included) have/had a lot of other pressures to go do "something" else than medicine.

[janny_jan]

I'm an "older" applicant and didnt' consider medicine until I was well into my masters (and thats after taking years off between it and undergrad) so i'm def. not one of those applicants who wanted to be a doctor since they were born. I think everyone comes at it from such varying backgrounds and I hope that age doesn't play a significant factor in the application process and reeeeeally hope that medical schools dont think that since im older, i wont have enough bankable years left.

 

hahaha i can see me down the line being like the black knight in monty python when people want me to retire: "im still standing!!!"

[sv3]

rmorelan:

 

you make a great point, there is an ENORMOUS amount of pressure to move on if you are getting older and don't get in to med your first or second time applying.

 

Moving on can also mean different countries - i'm older and i'm going into med one way or another. Don't always have to quit the goal of being a doc right?

[sv3]

I'm an "older" applicant and didnt' consider medicine until I was well into my masters (and thats after taking years off between it and undergrad) so i'm def. not one of those applicants who wanted to be a doctor since they were born. I think everyone comes at it from such varying backgrounds and I hope that age doesn't play a significant factor in the application process and reeeeeally hope that medical schools dont think that since im older, i wont have enough bankable years left.

 

hahaha i can see me down the line being like the black knight in monty python when people want me to retire: "im still standing!!!"

 

and that's exactly where your contributions to med, albeit perhaps over a smaller time, will still be on par with your peers due to the different avenues in which you can contribute -->all b/c of your experience

 

that's my story and im sticking with it.

 

PS (worst case I'll drop and pump out 100 pushups if i ever got an interview to prove i still got it!)

[sv3]

No matter who you are and no matter what you've done, the competition is brutal.

 

My initial point was that I don't think that the trend of younger and younger meds indicates a bias against older students, just that the younger pre-meds are more and more competitive.

Med schools love diversity, so all things being equal, the older, "wiser" applicant with more varied life experience will probably be preferred.

 

The key here is all things being equal.

 

Yes, there are applicants like the PP who didn't realize until later in life that they wanted to be a doctor. However, those people are few and far between compared to the people who apply during undergrad.

 

As for who would make a better doctor? Who knows.

The medical education is so long and intense and provides so many opportunities for personal growth that I'm not convinced that pre-med school experience actually has a significant effect on the average end-product of the student becoming a physician.

 

Certainly, previous life experience will have a major impact on how students proceed through medicine, but the education itself, followed by residency is a pretty shaping experience.

 

Not to say that who you are before med has no impact.

I just don't think that a few extra years of pre-med experience will have such an impact that it can be said to predict how good a doctor will be (if that can even really be measured).

 

All that to say, I think it's highly individual.

 

well that's the funny thing about experience - you don't it's worth till you've had some.

 

regardless no one knows if it helps or not in terms of being a better dr - im sure some people benefit and some dont.

[sv3]

Exactly.

 

I worked in neuroscience for a few years and everybody and their brother were applying to med.

I used to hear so many crazy theories, rules, generalizations, and plain old wacked-out advice.

 

In a class of over 200 med students, I have met a huge range of people. It's hard to see any central trend as to what kind of person and what kind of history was selected for.

 

The only thing they all have in common is amazing academics and hardcore impressive ECs, like everyone who is competitive.

Who knows what got them in?!

 

There are some that are so painfully shy they can barely make eye contact. Meanwhile, there are some that are so arrogant, I've seen one directly insult initiatives that the school is proud of right to the dean's face![/QUOTE]

 

hahah that's what the school gets for allowing the jackass in. Some people can hide it in interviews, but other times i think the adcoms fall in love with stats and such and don't really scrutinize attitude as much. maybe they do and im dead wrong but i bet that person isn't the only arrogant one.

 

but yeah, no one knows the formula. i don't think there is one. With so many qualified applicants schools don't have an incentive to really dig deep into each person. So they miss a few stars....so what.....they got themselves a bunch anyhow - thats how it works in canada

[hkmedic]

I can't comment on Mac but the proportion of grad students at U of T seems to be getting higher and higher. 1/3 of the first year class has grad degrees. That's pretty huge. Very few people got in out of third year.

 

 

ontariostudent, just curious, how did you get the profile of the class? (ie. are you a student at UT) That's a very large % of students grad students.

[sv3]

ontariostudent, just curious, how did you get the profile of the class? (ie. are you a student at UT) That's a very large % of students grad students.

 

ontariostudent is a UT med student. i'll let him/her answer the rest

 

just to note - i've never heard anything that closely resembles a trend toward younger students. I've heard about the opposite trend. One only has to look at the increasing avg age or teh growing % of students with advanced degrees now admitted. I am not sure about this last point but it also seems that if you wanna get in after just 3 years, your stats need to be ridiculously good (which means ridiculously ridiculously good since 4th years dont have shabby stats)

[ontariostudent]

ontariostudent, just curious, how did you get the profile of the class? (ie. are you a student at UT) That's a very large % of students grad students.

 

I am in first year at U of T med and on our first day of orientation they told us that a third of the class has grad degrees. They also told us it's 56% female, in case you're interested (and I'm in that majority, fyi). The age range is 19 (one person) to 32, with the average being 23.

[sv3]

I am in first year at U of T med and on our first day of orientation they told us that a third of the class has grad degrees. They also told us it's 56% female, in case you're interested (and I'm in that majority, fyi). The age range is 19 (one person) to 32, with the average being 23.

 

wow........32 isnt "that" old for the oldest. I know some schools out west have avg ages around 25 with some students in their late 30s. Interesting.

 

thanks very much ms. ontariostudent

[ontariostudent]

wow........32 isnt "that" old for the oldest. I know some schools out west have avg ages around 25 with some students in their late 30s. Interesting.

 

thanks very much ms. ontariostudent

 

 

(10 char)