Sharing faith in a medical practice

[thebouque]

Sure following the Judaic faith was a common characteristic many shared. However, considering religion has been a basic shared characteristic of human populations since the drawn of history then yeah, I guess using your logic religion is "involved" in any human conflict...

 

No, because it's not in every human conflict that members of a religion who are spread over several different countries are killed. Any way, I guess every one gets my point so I won't push it any further. Now back to medicine, I hope you're ready for the med games!

 

Peace

[leviathan]

Anyways, I have the feeling that everyone else gets the point. So I will leave it at that. Ya might want to stick to the medicine over the interpretation of history.

Agree with you on this one roger. Thebouque apparently thinks that when the Nazis were rounding up the "religious" Jews (which strangely enough they did through tracking families and not Synagogues), if one of them said s/he was actually a practicing Christian, they would have said "Oh, my bad! You can get off the train then."

 

Kinda insulting to all those who have been affected by the Holocaust, actually.

[thebouque]

Agree with you on this one roger. Thebouque apparently thinks that when the Nazis were rounding up the "religious" Jews (which strangely enough they did through tracking families and not Synagogues), if one of them said s/he was actually a practicing Christian, they would have said "Oh, my bad! You can get off the train then."

 

Kinda insulting to all those who have been affected by the Holocaust, actually.

 

You're interpreting what I said. I wouldn't expect anything else from someone who doesnt know what anti semitism really means though so I'll be able to sleep tonight

Anyway peace bro

[NewfieMike]

You're interpreting what I said. I wouldn't expect anything else from someone who doesnt know what anti semitism really means though so I'll be able to sleep tonight

Anyway peace bro

 

why did you just edit your insult? I could've swore this post was something different 3 minutes ago.

[thebouque]

Yeah, it wasnt an insult at all though, it was just different. I never insult on a public forum.

Peace

[thebouque]

I have to add to, I totally agree with what roger roger said, and my opinion does not diverge from his. It's more the way I expressed myself that caused a problem.

[thebouque]

Now after this stressful debate, I wish you all a happy new year and a great time at the med games!

[leviathan]

You're interpreting what I said. I wouldn't expect anything else from someone who doesnt know what anti semitism really means though so I'll be able to sleep tonight

Anyway peace bro

 

No, you're saying it has to do with religion and that's an incorrect and also pretty shallow interpretation of what happened in WWII. Also citing sources proves that you don't really know what anti-semitism is within the context of how that term is actually used. It has almost nothing to do with religion. Have a good sleep though; clearly this was going nowhere.

[thebouque]

Also citing sources proves that you don't really know what anti-semitism is within the context of how that term is actually used. It has almost nothing to do with religion.

 

Whatever you want my friend, have a good sleep too

[Dr.Henderson]

I can say at Western the general teachings are to not project your personal beliefs in any way as it may cause some people to be less open with the information that you would need to be most effective. They argue the doctors role is to solely determine the clients beliefs/goals/feelings and not use our own (even unconsciously) to contribute to our course of action and not to reach beyond our professional roles. This is not easy because regardless of your beliefs there are people whose views are entirely opposite to yours (not just talking about religion here) and things we care about deeply. We are actually already given standardized patients with positions designed to be "provocative" shall we say

 

Even if you are christian there are so many variants that it is quite possible to still cause friction. Also as much as we would like to have the flexibility to have more tailored practices (in many ways, not just regarding religious matters) with the serious shortage going on any doctor's office will attract by necessity patients who do not have a similar mindset. Going to make things interesting if as the doctor you are expecting one thing, but are confronted with something else - although of course the patient care and the perception of patient care must remain the same regardless. The latter is hard to always have when any form of non-neutrality is introduced.

 

Overall what we have taught so far is it would be considered unprofessional to project any particular religious affiliation in a practice, even though such efforts are usually quite well intentioned.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking when I read the first post.

 

What if the cause of a patient's visit was due to something that would be considered a major sin? E.g.- an extra-marital affair, or pre-marital sex that resulted in an STD or something of that nature.

 

The list could be a mile long filled with things that patients wouldn't want to share with their doctor for fear of judgment. Issues that could be easily resolved with a doctor's care could potentially go untreated.

[thebouque]

I might add leviathan, I think this whole little debate might has offended you (this wasn't my intention). It was stressful indeed. Go back to the sea now.

[leviathan]

I might add leviathan, I think this whole little debate might has offended you (this wasn't my intention). It was stressful indeed. Go back to the sea now.

Nah, I think we were mostly just amused by your interpretation of 20th century history.

[leviathan]

It's sad how you don't understand what I'm saying I never talked about belief. As for anti semitism, well just google it and you'll get a picture. Roger roger was a way better debater than you, you should stick to medicine

 

You said "All I'm saying is that judaism is a religion, not an ethnicity, and people who followed that religion were mass murdered, therefore religion was involved, no matter what the NAZIs motivations were and how they viewed them as a ''race'' along with other ''races'' to ''exterminate''.

 

That makes no sense, sorry! You cannot say religion was involved when it was simply an association of this ethnic group, or a correlation if you will. You know the difference between correlation and causation, correct? The cause of this genocide was NOT Judaism, it was related to these people's ethnicity who happen to practice Judaism.

[apache]

tencharacters

[Lactic Folly]

As a Christian, sharing my faith is an integral part of what I believe. Does anyone have insight as to what is an appropriate way to go about this in a medical setting?

 

http://www.cmdscanada.org/ I believe they are involved in overseas projects and such.

[123coco]

I just thought I would comment on this quote because its rather dogmatic and unfair... I would note that WW1, WWII, the American Civil War, The Vietnam War, the Cold War etc. had nothing to do with religious convictions but everything to do with political convictions. The Popes who started "crusades" into the middle east are not, and would never, by any stretch of the imagination, be considered true Christians.

 

From a political perspective, countries based on Christian values (America, UK, continental Europe, Australia) generally enjoy the highest standard of living, and the strongest social structures in the world. These benefits can be directly attributed to their founding principles. Think of the American Civil War - Abraham Lincoln - God created all man equal.

 

I would also note that religious institutions (mainly Christian) are also responsible for most of the world's charity organizations (Red Cross, Salvation Army, YMCA, Feed the Children -- 5 of the top 10 charities in America were started as explicitly Christian outreaches -http://www.forbes.com/2005/11/18/largest-charities-ratings_05charities_land.html)

Not to mention that the average Christian donates a significant amount more time and money to charitable organizations (http://www.givingandvolunteering.ca/files/giving/en/n-vc1sen.pdf)

 

Don't hate on religion. Religion doesn't hate you. In fact it loves you, and you owe a lot to it.

 

this quite an interesting thread you've started. Just to put my two cents....if nations founded on the ethos of Christianity tend to enjoy the greatest affluence, in part it is because the values protestanism offered a ripe climate for capitalism to flourish.ie. work hard now, be gratified later....I'd recommend you read the "spirit of capitalism" by Max Weber.

 

Another point you made was regarding christian countries being responsible for most of the world's charity work. True..but think of all the wrong these nations have also committed while receiving the blessings of their religious heads ie. colonization, slavery, residential schools etc. (just a comment...I'm putting out there... I'm a christian who doesn't like the institution of the Church)

 

Also, there's a gifted doctor by the name of Ben Carson in MN who is renowned for his surgical dexterity in pediatric neurological disorders. In his interviews and books, he overtly professes that his gift was given to him by God. When patients seeking treatment approach him, he advises them that it is God who is guiding the surgery not him. When he is performing a surgery, in the background, religious instrumental hymns are playing. I've followed his career from a distance and have yet to hear any controversies against the ethicality of his religious beliefs and his practice. The point that I'm trying to make is that he is open about his religious convictions, but does not attempt to convert his patients, rather; what convinces non-believers is his self-conduct.

________

Vapor

[dr_horrible]

As a Christian, sharing my faith is an integral part of what I believe. Does anyone have insight as to what is an appropriate way to go about this in a medical setting?

 

For example - if I owned my own private practice, would it be unethical to share the Christian message as a part of my clinical practice during medical interviews?

 

I realize there is an element of professionalism and the fact that a physician is in a power of authority (coercion etc)... But as one other put it, if a doctor had a cure to cancer, it would be unethical of him/her to withhold it from others. I believe that the human condition can only be reconciled by Godly intervention... i.e. salvation by Jesus which leads to eternal life... Eternal life would be better than a cure to cancer, wouldn't it? That is... if you believe in it.

 

I think I'm a little late to the party, but I thought I'd share my story/opinion.

 

I was raised Catholic, and attended Catholic elementary and secondary schools. Due to the fact that I disagree strongly with many of the practices and beliefs of the organized Catholic religion, I decided that I did not want to continue to be a member of the Catholic religion. I have no problem with many of the main ideals of the Catholic (or really any) religion. I think that giving back to others, and treating them as you would like to be treated, truly are keys to living a happy and fulfilling life.

 

But all and all, I do not consider myself a part of the Christian faith, or any other faith. I made this decision many years ago, when I was still in high school.

 

During my first year of university, I got sick and was hospitalized for a month. Much of this time was spent bedridden, and sometimes I was too advocated to really advocate for myself. During my hospital stay, I was visited my volunteers from the Catholic church. They asked me if I would like to pray with them, or learn about the religion. Don't get me wrong - I believe these people could be very helpful to many religious patients. But although I was fine with the company, I did not want to change my beliefs.

 

My issue is not that they came. But instead, that they would proceed to share their messages with me, even when I let them know that I was not religious myself. One woman actually tried to uncover why I would not embrace Catholicism, asking if I had problems at home or elsewhere that made me turn away from God.

 

I found the experience to be extremely uncomfortable and invasive to my privacy. Being a patient leaves you in an incredibly vulnerable state, both physically and mentally. Trying to get someone to evaluate or change their beliefs in such a setting is inappropriate, and could even be considered an abuse of power, whether it is being done by a volunteer, as in my case, or a physician.

[AdamP]

I'm wondering, if spreading the word of Jesus is so important to you, why not do that full time, why mix all that wacky evidence based medicine with it?

 

I feel like you could be using your practice as a way to get people in the door, particularly suffering people looking for help, and use that as an opportunity to convert them/influence them. Hardly an original idea, countless garbage NGOs are doing that all around the world right now.

 

To your original point, I suppose if you made it ABUNDANTLY clear that you are opening up a clinic + church you might be able to get away with it, although if I was one of your peers I would fight through all the professional bodies available to try and get it shut down.

 

Putting the words "faith-based" and "medical practice" beside each other gives me the shudders.

[Leon]

 

Putting the works "faith-based" and "medical practice" beside each other gives me the shudders.

 

+++

 

10char

[Leon]

 

From a political perspective, countries based on Christian values (America, UK, continental Europe, Australia) generally enjoy the highest standard of living, and the strongest social structures in the world. These benefits can be directly attributed to their founding principles. Think of the American Civil War - Abraham Lincoln - God created all man equal.

 

Omg.

 

That is all.

[Guest BluePin]

Interesting topic, thanks for posting, itbomb.

 

You have gotten some insightful replies (and some not-so-insightful ones).

 

I think many young professionals are not really clear on what it means to be a "professional." To my mind it is simply learning that your own interests and needs are subordinate to the interests and needs of your client-- in this case, your patient.

 

While this distinction may be clear to you when faced with missing lunch (your needs) to see an urgent patient (their needs), it may be less clear when you truly believe that you can provide the patient with something valuable, such as your faith.

 

The problem with this is threefold:

1) They didn't come to your for spiritual guidance, they came for health reasons.

2) Even if you are correct and some spiritual guidance may be of value, but they do not believe it is in their best interests, then their beliefs supersede yours-- even though you may be "right."

3) For those patients who may both benefit from and be open to spiritual guidance from you, your professional relationship with them is not the venue to pursue it, given the power imbalance in the relationship and its context (context: they came to you under the context of health care, therefore, it is not appropriate to provide them with God, even if they are interested).

 

All that being said, if you clearly advertise what you are offering, I don't see the problem with it. However, if you choose to do that and are truly serious about offering your patients a quality service I think you need to:

1) Follow cnussey's advice and pursue higher education in theology / divinities. What you may be passionate about your faith, a passionate pre-med is not a doctor, nor is a passionate Christian a priest. Priests and monks spend decades trying to truly understand their beliefs. If you wish to offer "faith-based practice" you should do the same.

2) You must also be very clear on where the traditional patient/doctor boundaries are, should you wish to "bend" them. I believe this would require many years of working in a regular medical practice and learning to work with those whose needs and beliefs you find challenging. You have to understand the rules before you can break them.

 

If you can build the appropriate background for yourself and still believe that you have something to offer in that realm, then have at.

[mbene085]

In addition to the point people have made about it being completely unprofessional and beyond the scope of acceptable behaviour for a doctor to preach to patients, I will add the following point:

 

If you try doing what you proposed, you will SO get your a$$ sued. We may not be in as litigious a system as our American counterparts, but medico-legally, there's no way your college would back you up if a patient filed a complaint or a lawsuit. And believe me, the complaints would come rolling in.

 

So now ask yourself if 6+ years of training (plus the undergrad it took to get there) is worth the one-ish year MAX you'd get practicing like that before you get your license suspended.

[Madz25]

 

Also, there's a gifted doctor by the name of Ben Carson in MN who is renowned for his surgical dexterity in pediatric neurological disorders. In his interviews and books, he overtly professes that his gift was given to him by God. When patients seeking treatment approach him, he advises them that it is God who is guiding the surgery not him. When he is performing a surgery, in the background, religious instrumental hymns are playing. I've followed his career from a distance and have yet to hear any controversies against the ethicality of his religious beliefs and his practice. The point that I'm trying to make is that he is open about his religious convictions, but does not attempt to convert his patients, rather; what convinces non-believers is his self-conduct.

 

just wondering...if he makes a mistake or the surgery goes wrong for other reasons...does he tell the family that it was god's will... and that their child was not meant to get better/live?

[The Law]

just wondering...if he makes a mistake or the surgery goes wrong for other reasons...does he tell the family that it was god's will... and that their child was not meant to get better/live?

 

+1

 

I'm sure God just suddenly takes over his consciousness before surgery. Give me some of the drugs that the surgeon is on. They must be awesome.

[Leon]

just wondering...if he makes a mistake or the surgery goes wrong for other reasons...does he tell the family that it was god's will... and that their child was not meant to get better/live?

 

I'm a theist but I'd be rattled if I'm on the operating table and the surgeon says that (I mean the bolded part you quoted).