Sharing faith in a medical practice

[Tango Charlie]

The prayer stuff has always been odd to me. If you believe in a god that's omnipotent and omniscient, why pray? Things are going to unfold as they're going to unfold. Either a patient, for instance, is going to die under the knife or they're not, based on how god is feeling that day (or whenever it created its plan). Even if the god were in the market for changing his plan based on the whims of mortal men and women, it's in the business of 1984-style thoughtcrime as well, so why even go through the motions? It'd know what you want without even asking it, wouldn't it? Seems contradictory and redundant to go about asking the Supreme Leader for trivial things like a patient not to die when it's busy decimating nations with natural disasters and threatening the human race with scary new pandemics.

[mbene085]

The daily practice of many religions, Christianity included, is based on supplication (though I'm certain you know this). It adds an element of feeling there's a personal relationship between the practitioner and his or her god(s).

 

If someone wants to say a personal prayer before performing surgery, I'd support them as long as they aren't doing it out loud in the OR (which could definitely make other people uncomfortable). If it makes the surgeon feel more comfortable/confident, I would think some good might come of it.

[terryann]

Should I become a doctor, I do not think religion will be involved in my practice. If someone, were to ask me what faith I was, I would tell them. I would not ask a patient what his/her faith was; nor would I care to know as it would have no impact on how I treated them.

If someone wanted to pray before surgery to a higher power that I did not know much about, I would not feel uncomfortable and would give them their space.

I have always lived in a mult-cultural city,and have friends of all faiths and races and never discuss religion with them; we all do our own thing.

I do not feel my religion is better than others; thus do not feel the need to convert others. I believe that it is more important how a person lives their life than what faith they belong to. Keep in mind that their are criminals in all faiths...as well as model citizens.

[Madz25]

there is a reason that hospitals have spiritual/religious leaders on hand for patients....because it is not a doctor's place to preach/guide someone in that manner. it's unprofessional and frankly, even if you (as a doctor) are religious - what are your qualifications for doing that kind of work??? stick to medicine and leave the religious/spiritual aspects to those that are more qualified.

 

just to add, i dont mean doctors cant/shouldnt be religious. i meant in terms of influencing/guiding patients...

[mig174]

The prayer stuff has always been odd to me. If you believe in a god that's omnipotent and omniscient, why pray? Things are going to unfold as they're going to unfold. Either a patient, for instance, is going to die under the knife or they're not, based on how god is feeling that day (or whenever it created its plan). Even if the god were in the market for changing his plan based on the whims of mortal men and women, it's in the business of 1984-style thoughtcrime as well, so why even go through the motions? It'd know what you want without even asking it, wouldn't it? Seems contradictory and redundant to go about asking the Supreme Leader for trivial things like a patient not to die when it's busy decimating nations with natural disasters and threatening the human race with scary new pandemics.

 

nothing about religion makes sense and it's really strange to me that supposedly intelligent people who have gone through rigorous science curricula are willing to forego reason and suspend disbelief to this extent.

 

[Firsttimer]

First, I am not religious, though I do consider myself an agnostic (impossible to prove a negative--i.e. lack of a god/higher power/whatever). That said, there is a great deal of sense to religion; I do not think billions of people the world over would practice religion if it did not make sense to them.

 

Religion (true or not) provides for people in no particular order:

 

1. A sense of belonging to a community

2. Order in a world that for so many seems very unordered

3. A way to understand things that are beyond one's understanding

4. A means of relaxation

5. A coping mechanism

 

These are five things that I can quickly think of that make a lot of sense to me, though again, I am not religious and do not use religion for these things.

[Tango Charlie]

First, I am not religious, though I do consider myself an agnostic (impossible to prove a negative--i.e. lack of a god/higher power/whatever).

 

Atheism doesn't require the assertion that you're absolutely certain there isn't any god. Any reasonable atheist probably accepts that there's always a possibility of there being a god or gods, just that there's no or very little evidence for it, and that it's far more probable instead that religion is bogus.

 

Agnosticism, on the other hand, suggests that there's equal probability of there being or not being god or gods. It's a strange sort of fence-sitting which I can't relate to, but apparently there are people out there who genuinely think it could go either way with equal certainty.

 

So if you believe that there's probably no god, you're an atheist. If you think it's equally probable that there is a god as there not being one, you're agnostic.

[fandanstan]

Interesting post. I'm also a Christian, and like many others have already said, I wouldn't try to impose my beliefs onto others, or use my "authority" as a doctor to convert someone. We need to be respectful and professional.

 

That being said, I believe doctors have every right, just as everyone else, to have the freedom to live accordingly to their faith. If I ever become a surgeon, am I going to have a quick prayer before operating? Yes. If my patient is on their death bed, will I pray for them? Yes. If a patient asks me questions about my faith, will I share? Of course, as long as it's "sharing," not imposing.... there is a fine line.

 

Being a person of faith in no way undermines your ability to think critically or practice evidence-based medicine.

 

One of the more sensible posts in this thread.

[Firsttimer]

Atheism doesn't require the assertion that you're absolutely certain there isn't any god. Any reasonable atheist probably accepts that there's always a possibility of there being a god or gods, just that there's no or very little evidence for it, and that it's far more probable instead that religion is bogus.

 

Agnosticism, on the other hand, suggests that there's equal probability of there being or not being god or gods. It's a strange sort of fence-sitting which I can't relate to, but apparently there are people out there who genuinely think it could go either way with equal certainty.

 

So if you believe that there's probably no god, you're an atheist. If you think it's equally probable that there is a god as there not being one, you're agnostic.

 

Not sure if I'm using this quote thing right...

 

I can't believe I am getting into a religious debate on a forum! In any case, my post was in no way meant to spur a debate on the differences between different belief systems, just to add that while I don't practice a religion, I understand why many people do.

 

In terms of my own personal beliefs (and I've taken the bait, blah!), I have just come to the conclusion that humans (at least at this point) have no way of knowing about the supernatural. Most books I have read on the matter place agnostics as admitting that they know nothing either way, while atheists flat out take the stance that no god/higher power/whatever exists. Doesn't really matter what title you give it though.

[Tango Charlie]

In terms of my own personal beliefs (and I've taken the bait, blah!), I have just come to the conclusion that humans (at least at this point) have no way of knowing about the supernatural. Most books I have read on the matter place agnostics as admitting that they know nothing either way, while atheists flat out take the stance that no god/higher power/whatever exists. Doesn't really matter what title you give it though.

 

I've never read a book on this subject which diverges from what I said earlier. Agnostics are strange 50/50 types who think either way is equally plausible, atheists are either folks who believe it's improbable for there to be a god, or who are idiots and claim to know there's no god.

 

Obviously you don't have to take my word for it, as you seem to still be in awe of this new-fangled Intrawebs stuff that all the whippersnappers are using these days, so I'd hate to make any demands of you lest you become catatonic. But, if there's one thing I hate doing myself, it's using terminology improperly, so I thought you'd maybe appreciate the correction.

[Firsttimer]

Either way, the point of my posting (which you seem to have missed over and over again) was not to discuss the differences between the two. As a medical doctor you will have to treat people from many religions and it might be prudent for you to learn to respect the plurality that we have as humans.

 

Good job for getting bogged down in the details.

 

P.S. I'm not old

[Tango Charlie]

I didn't "miss" the point of your post, I simply didn't have anything to add in that regard.

 

By the way, misunderstanding what the word "atheist" means and suggesting that atheists unanimously believe there is definitely no god is hardly a minor detail in a religion thread.

[FacetheMusic]

Opinions aside, here is the CPSO policy. If you disagree with them, you can't practice in Ontario:

 

"Treat patients with respect when they are seeking or requiring the treatment or procedure. This means that physicians should not express personal judgments about the beliefs, lifestyle, identity or characteristics of a patient. This also means that physicians should not promote their own religious beliefs when interacting with patients, nor should they seek to convert existing patients to their own religion."

 

Hope that helps.

[fandanstan]

williamparkar is a TROLL. He deserves to get banned for providing a link to custom-written term papers.

[future_doc]

Each of his dsisgraceful posts have been reported to the mods.

[NorthernDude]

I would not ask a patient what his/her faith was; nor would I care to know as it would have no impact on how I treated them.

 

At my medical school we are actually taught to do just that. The intent isn't to change your medical treatment, but rather to allow you to be sensitive to the psychosocial part of medicine. For example, if your patient is palliative, it's important to know what sort of support that patient would need, whether spiritual or religious. ie. contact a chaplain, a traditional healer, a rabbi, their meditation/yoga instructor, etc.

 

If you prescribe to the holistic view of medicine, a patient's spiritual health (religious or otherwise) is an important component of your care.

[Tango Charlie]

If you prescribe to the holistic view of medicine, a patient's spiritual health (religious or otherwise) is an important component of your care.

 

Are you attending a naturopath school?

[terryann]

I probably was not clear in most post regarding religious or spiritual aspects of medicine. I do believe it is appropriate, if a doctor is aware that someone is dying soon that the patient should be asked if they would like to see someone from their religious or spiritual community. I am not in medical school so I do not know what the protocol is, would the nursing staff, hospital chaplain, social worker or palliative care deal with this.

What I did mean on my post was that if a patient came to my office and was not dying...I would not ask his religiuos or spirtual background. Perhaps, I am wrong in thinking this.

[JeraJaclyn]

I probably was not clear in most post regarding religious or spiritual aspects of medicine. I do believe it is appropriate, if a doctor is aware that someone is dying soon that the patient should be asked if they would like to see someone from their religious or spiritual community. I am not in medical school so I do not know what the protocol is, would the nursing staff, hospital chaplain, social worker or palliative care deal with this.

What I did mean on my post was that if a patient came to my office and was not dying...I would not ask his religiuos or spirtual background. Perhaps, I am wrong in thinking this.

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with asking about spiritual, religious, or cultural background. It can help you get a full picture of your patient as a person. It can be useful when determining the best treatments. For example, knowing that your patient is Jehovah's witness will remind you that they might not accept blood products. Knowing that your diabetic patient is Muslim would be important when it comes to fasting season.

 

When it comes to end-of-life issues, asking about religion is not just good practice, it is essential. If we want what is best for our patient we need to know that all aspects of their being is being taken care of. This might mean contacting Spiritual Care for help, or it might be as simple as allowing your patient a private moment to pray before a surgery.

 

When it comes to your own religion, it is important to remember that a patient-doctor relationship is not about you, it's about the patient. Listen more than you speak, particularly when it comes to things as personal as someone's spirituality. If a patient asks you to pray for them and this is something you want to do, go ahead. If your patient is suffering, ask if some sort of spiritual care would be helpful to them. I wouldn't cross the line of pushing your own beliefs on the patient, especially since you are usually seeing them at their most vulnerable and there is a power-imbalance present.

 

(Full disclosure: I'm a Christian)

[isaiah4110]

I don't think there is anything wrong with asking about spiritual, religious, or cultural background. It can help you get a full picture of your patient as a person. It can be useful when determining the best treatments. For example, knowing that your patient is Jehovah's witness will remind you that they might not accept blood products. Knowing that your diabetic patient is Muslim would be important when it comes to fasting season.

 

When it comes to end-of-life issues, asking about religion is not just good practice, it is essential. If we want what is best for our patient we need to know that all aspects of their being is being taken care of. This might mean contacting Spiritual Care for help, or it might be as simple as allowing your patient a private moment to pray before a surgery.

 

When it comes to your own religion, it is important to remember that a patient-doctor relationship is not about you, it's about the patient. Listen more than you speak, particularly when it comes to things as personal as someone's spirituality. If a patient asks you to pray for them and this is something you want to do, go ahead. If your patient is suffering, ask if some sort of spiritual care would be helpful to them. I wouldn't cross the line of pushing your own beliefs on the patient, especially since you are usually seeing them at their most vulnerable and there is a power-imbalance present.

 

(Full disclosure: I'm a Christian)

 

 

Well put! 10char

[terryann]

Thank you, I learned alot from your post.

[future_doc]

hey guys, if you are against plagiarism, I encourage you to report the ^ above poster who is selling term papers.