Help a long shot figure out my chances

[4Runner]

Like the title says, I'm a long shot.

 

Non-Trad 32 years old.

Poor first attempt back in 1995-96, just received my transcripts from Red Deer College:

 

2 F's

a few WD's

0.19 GPA (academic probation)

 

This could be explained as my best friend died in Sept. that year after a 4 month battle with Osteosarcoma and mom was admitted to Mental Hospital. Well I didn't deal well with it then, but I'm much better now.

 

I knew then that I was too immature for school and decided not to return, I was hoping for Journalism then....not to be.

 

Took a few years to work and grow up. A couple of years bouncing around tried construction - glazier, wasn't for me. Then I was hired at a local Pulp Mill. Best thing that ever happened to me. I was the Team Safety Steward at 20 years and a Volunteer ERT Team Member for 2 years. Grew up tremendously, met my future wife, decided that I would go back to school.

 

Wanted to be an OT, but realistically knowing how competitive it was decided to hedge my bets ( I as leaving a pretty secure well paying position with a good career track in store for me). Did a year of Gen Studies to bring my GPA up, then transfered to Nursing (in case I didn't get into OT) 3. 54 and 3. 53 GPA those two years. When I was in nursing I found that I loved the medical aspect of the job (as well as the people) and though I considered Meds I wanted to prove that I could finish what I'd begun.

 

Accepted to UofA OT in 2004! Yay. GPA took a hit, these kids were hyper competitive 3.1 year one, 3.6 year two. I was President of the Rehabilitation Medicine Student's Association my last year. Volunteered as an Instructor with the Canadian Association for Disabled Skiers.

 

Graduated 2006 and started work in Westlock, AB. Pop. approx 5000. Loved it but my wife and I were living in St Albert and found it too big and unfamiliar to raise our family (first son was born six days after finishing my last practicum.) So we decided to return home. Home is about 5500 people, but I'm originally from a much smaller hamlet 25 minutes away Pop. approx 250-300 people. Two hours from Edmonton.

 

Now I've been working in the local Hospital as well as an adjacent community for almost 4 years. I cover Pediatrics, Long-Term Care (two centers), acute care in the smaller hospital, as well as Outpatient OT Services for the entire catchment area (doing ABI's about 75-150 per year, Dysphagia, Pediatric Splinting (esp. the digital fractures the Docs don't want), Stroke Rehab, Power mobility, home assessment, cognitive assessment and rehab, lead the Rehab portion of the Party Program (new to me this year, it's a lifestyle course for local grade 9's to promote good choices about sex and drinking etc.) I was a Volunteer Firefighter for 2 years until my youngest son was diagnosed with multiple severe food allergies and my wife needed more of me to help cope with the changes. I hated to leave it, but maybe if I don't get in, I'll get the chance to go back.

 

LOR's would be good I belive. Local MD agreed (he's the longest serving in the community) I was a Firefighter with the Mayor of our town, so he's a possiblity. My student advisor in OT is now the president of the World Federation of Occupational Therapists, she might agree. I do have another possible prof that would agree as well. I treat the Local MLA's granddaughter as an outpatient (she's been on my caseload since she was 1 month old and she's now going 1 1/2 years) so he's a possiblity. I also have a possiblity with a VP in Alberta Health Services who was my mentor when I started OT in Westlock.

 

Now I know what my GPA is (not too great, I think I calculated it as 3.44 or so without the Red Deer year). Is Red Deer going to kill my chances?

 

What are the chances NOSM would look at me? I'm as serious as anyone about staying rural as I hate big cities.

 

Thanks for reading and posting.

 

4Runner

[UTPEOPLE]

Like the title says, I'm a long shot.

 

Non-Trad 32 years old.

Poor first attempt back in 1995-96, just received my transcripts from Red Deer College:

 

2 F's

a few WD's

0.19 GPA (academic probation)

 

This could be explained as my best friend died in Sept. that year after a 4 month battle with Osteosarcoma and mom was admitted to Mental Hospital. Well I didn't deal well with it then, but I'm much better now.

 

I knew then that I was too immature for school and decided not to return, I was hoping for Journalism then....not to be.

 

Took a few years to work and grow up. A couple of years bouncing around tried construction - glazier, wasn't for me. Then I was hired at a local Pulp Mill. Best thing that ever happened to me. I was the Team Safety Steward at 20 years and a Volunteer ERT Team Member for 2 years. Grew up tremendously, met my future wife, decided that I would go back to school.

 

Wanted to be an OT, but realistically knowing how competitive it was decided to hedge my bets ( I as leaving a pretty secure well paying position with a good career track in store for me). Did a year of Gen Studies to bring my GPA up, then transfered to Nursing (in case I didn't get into OT) 3. 54 and 3. 53 GPA those two years. When I was in nursing I found that I loved the medical aspect of the job (as well as the people) and though I considered Meds I wanted to prove that I could finish what I'd begun.

 

Accepted to UofA OT in 2004! Yay. GPA took a hit, these kids were hyper competitive 3.1 year one, 3.6 year two. I was President of the Rehabilitation Medicine Student's Association my last year. Volunteered as an Instructor with the Canadian Association for Disabled Skiers.

 

Graduated 2006 and started work in Westlock, AB. Pop. approx 5000. Loved it but my wife and I were living in St Albert and found it too big and unfamiliar to raise our family (first son was born six days after finishing my last practicum.) So we decided to return home. Home is about 5500 people, but I'm originally from a much smaller hamlet 25 minutes away Pop. approx 250-300 people. Two hours from Edmonton.

 

Now I've been working in the local Hospital as well as an adjacent community for almost 4 years. I cover Pediatrics, Long-Term Care (two centers), acute care in the smaller hospital, as well as Outpatient OT Services for the entire catchment area (doing ABI's about 75-150 per year, Dysphagia, Pediatric Splinting (esp. the digital fractures the Docs don't want), Stroke Rehab, Power mobility, home assessment, cognitive assessment and rehab, lead the Rehab portion of the Party Program (new to me this year, it's a lifestyle course for local grade 9's to promote good choices about sex and drinking etc.) I was a Volunteer Firefighter for 2 years until my youngest son was diagnosed with multiple severe food allergies and my wife needed more of me to help cope with the changes. I hated to leave it, but maybe if I don't get in, I'll get the chance to go back.

 

LOR's would be good I belive. Local MD agreed (he's the longest serving in the community) I was a Firefighter with the Mayor of our town, so he's a possiblity. My student advisor in OT is now the president of the World Federation of Occupational Therapists, she might agree. I do have another possible prof that would agree as well. I treat the Local MLA's granddaughter as an outpatient (she's been on my caseload since she was 1 month old and she's now going 1 1/2 years) so he's a possiblity. I also have a possiblity with a VP in Alberta Health Services who was my mentor when I started OT in Westlock.

 

Now I know what my GPA is (not too great, I think I calculated it as 3.44 or so without the Red Deer year). Is Red Deer going to kill my chances?

 

What are the chances NOSM would look at me? I'm as serious as anyone about staying rural as I hate big cities.

 

Thanks for reading and posting.

 

4Runner

 

alot of schools dont count your entire transcript (ottawa, western, queens). That said, that GPA of 3.4 (assuming you dont have a graduate degree) is probably still going to disqualify you from most med schools in Canada. You might have a shot in the states though

[tooty]

your grades won't make the cutoffs in canada no matter how you calculate it. but I think mcmaster and uoft considers the work experience of more mature applicants in lieu of the gpa. nosm will only take you if you have strong connections to northern ontario, not rural areas in general.

 

i think you'll have to do another undergrad to get 3.8+ gpa and a strong mcat. it sucks because you're obviously more qualified than the average 21 yo punk. such is how the game is played.

[hastin11]

^^^ I think the 21 year old punk thing is kind of a dumb stereotype. A kid that age who has the discipline to hunker down and make sacrifices for an excellent GPA should be, and is, far more "qualified" to get into meds than a 30 year old who has never had a gpa like that but has more "life experience". (Doesnt any older person? Why not just make "age" the absolute med enterance requirement?) I dont know why some people seem so adamant about disagreeing with that.

 

To the OP: No real chance at all in Canada unless you seriously improve the gpa. My advice would be to write the mcat, ace it, apply to the states.

[nemesis]

...I think mcmaster...considers the work experience of more mature applicants in lieu of the gpa...

...

 

[AndreaM]

Are you willing to do another undergrad? If so you could finish one in two years and then (if your marks are up to par) you would be eligible at many universities. NOSM uses your best competed degree (so your first one wouldn't hinder you), several schools use best/last years or weighting systems and UBC has a 10 year rule that allows you to have them drop your grades from anything that is more than 10 years old. Have you taken the MCAT? Being from Alberta, your best bets are the two schools in AB, both of which require the MCAT. At UofC, a really great MCAT can help to make up for a weaker GPA. Also, UofC uses you best two years for cut-off purposes, so a two year second degree would help you out there.

 

I would suggest you take the MCAT, see what you get. If you have a competitive score, start a new undergrad and work your butt of to get the marks you need.

[DOC_Ma]

^^^ I think the 21 year old punk thing is kind of a dumb stereotype. A kid that age who has the discipline to hunker down and make sacrifices for an excellent GPA should be, and is, far more "qualified" to get into meds than a 30 year old who has never had a gpa like that but has more "life experience". (Doesnt any older person? Why not just make "age" the absolute med enterance requirement?) I dont know why some people seem so adamant about disagreeing with that.

 

To the OP: No real chance at all in Canada unless you seriously improve the gpa. My advice would be to write the mcat, ace it, apply to the states.

 

This is well said.

 

To tooty, age is not a very accurate way to measure people's mental maturity at all, otherwise like hastin11 said, med schools should just set an absolute age requirement to get the maturity they r looking for.

[cnb88]

Hi 4Runner!

 

My condolences on the loss of your friend... that must have been really hard to deal with.

 

Your years at Red Deer College shouldn't count because it isn't a university, but I'm not 100% sure on that, so you should call the schools you are interested in for that information. If nothing else you should be able to use the "special considerations" box to explain that GPA as well if they will count your GPA from Red Deer. As for your cGPA, it will definitely me a hurdle (I have the same GPA), but it is definitely not impossible. If, when you write your MCAT, you kill the verbal section, you might have a shot at McMaster.

 

Also, how long have you lived in rural areas (over the course of your entire life)? The reason why I ask, is because the UofA has over-quota spots for those coming from rural backgrounds. You need to have lived in what they classify as a rural area for a total of 5 years (doesn't have to be consecutively). Their classification of a rural area is living in a town of less than 25 000 people, 80km or more away from a city with a population of 50 000.

 

Being that you would qualify for IP in Alberta, you have both UofA and UofC to look at as well, and their minimum GPA requirements are 3.2 and 3.0 respectively. With a strong MCAT and good ECs (which it sounds like you have) you have a chance. The most important thing though is for you to really study hard and ace the MCAT.

 

I'm not sure of what your chances at NOSM would be, but I do know they take rural status into account there too. From what I remember, you will still need the MCAT for this school, so again, doing well is really important.

 

Like others have said, an extra year or two of university might be beneficial to you to bring up that GPA just that little bit more (If I don't get off the waitlist this cycle and don't get in for Class of 2015, that's what I'll be doing).

 

For the record, I have a 3.4 cGPA and got an interview and was waitlisted at the UofA. So all hope is not lost!

 

If you have any questions, feel free to send me a PM

[Gerrardfan]

I don't think your gpa puts you fully out of the running. You are an Alberta resident, and U of C has a minimum gpa requirement of 3.2. Of course, this just means you get past the initial stages, but your experiences do give you an edge, not just because you are a mature applicant but because you have direct hospital experience. You know what is required of a physician, you are going into the process with your eyes wide open. It might be a long shot, but you can also make an appointment with the U of A and talk to someone who might be able to point you in the right direction. Even a long shot is worth a try, if you nail the MCAT your chances are much better.

[Cnussey]

^^^ I think the 21 year old punk thing is kind of a dumb stereotype. A kid that age who has the discipline to hunker down and make sacrifices for an excellent GPA should be, and is, far more "qualified" to get into meds than a 30 year old who has never had a gpa like that but has more "life experience". (Doesnt any older person? Why not just make "age" the absolute med enterance requirement?) I dont know why some people seem so adamant about disagreeing with that.

 

To the OP: No real chance at all in Canada unless you seriously improve the gpa. My advice would be to write the mcat, ace it, apply to the states.

 

Because any experience doesn't cut it. Mature students actually have to prove how their experiences make them worthy and have taught them.

[bloh]

My suggestion is to study for the MCAT and give it all you got. If you do not receive a score of around 35, then I would say going back to school will be a waste of time for you. If you aren't able to buckle down for 2-3 months, study hard and get results you won't be able to do it for 2 years in your next degree.

 

The RDC won't haunt you. Most schools will forgive it. But your 3.4 won't get you anywhere and if you aren't able to ace the MCAT, I sincerely doubt you'll be pushing 3.6+ GPA in your new degree.

[tooty]

 

was wrong about mcmaster. uoft probably still has that policy. last i saw was a few years ago.

[iwh333]

bloh: uhhh when does how well you can do on the MCAT correlate with how well you can do in school. bad advice in my opinion. it's a totally different ball game.

[chrail]

My 2 cents,

 

Call the schools you want to apply to and ask if they consider grades/transcripts from Red Deer College. Most likely they will not be considered because it is not an accredited Uni. So, these grades won't be considered and won't count against you.

 

http://www.aucc.ca/can_uni/our_universities/index_e.html#Alberta

 

Good luck!

[Cnussey]

My 2 cents,

 

Call the schools you want to apply to and ask if they consider grades/transcripts from Red Deer College. Most likely they will not be considered because it is not an accredited Uni. So, these grades won't be considered and won't count against you.

 

http://www.aucc.ca/can_uni/our_universities/index_e.html#Alberta

 

Good luck!

 

This is a good point--not all schools accept college diplomas.

[cardiomegaly]

Ya most of the 21 year old "punks" (and the ones that were 19,20 when they started) in the 2013 class worked pretty darn hard to get in after 3 years....it takes a lot of discipline to never screw up your GPA and ace your MCAT early while maintaining meaningful ECs.

 

to the OP: When you graduated from the OT program, was it still a BSc? I ask because Masters students get an extra point at U of A but I know the OT program didn't become a master's level till recently..

 

It is possible to make it to U of A with a 3.5 ish GPA IF you have a killer MCAT to balance (I'm talking 36+) and if you write your ECs up very very well. Just note that the rural applicants in our class are all exceptional as well

[UTPEOPLE]

your grades won't make the cutoffs in canada no matter how you calculate it. but I think mcmaster and uoft considers the work experience of more mature applicants in lieu of the gpa. nosm will only take you if you have strong connections to northern ontario, not rural areas in general.

 

i think you'll have to do another undergrad to get 3.8+ gpa and a strong mcat. it sucks because you're obviously more qualified than the average 21 yo punk. such is how the game is played.

 

If being a punk means getting into med school easier... then punk me up

[bloh]

bloh: uhhh when does how well you can do on the MCAT correlate with how well you can do in school. bad advice in my opinion. it's a totally different ball game.

 

How well you do on the MCAT has a pretty strong correlation on how well you can manage to buckle down and study. Except it's over a 2-3 month period rather than a 2 year stretch. If you can't manage it for 2 months then how can you expect to keep up for 2 years?

[Mashmetoo]

Like the title says, I'm a long shot.

 

Non-Trad 32 years old.

Poor first attempt back in 1995-96, just received my transcripts from Red Deer College:

 

2 F's

a few WD's

0.19 GPA (academic probation)

 

This could be explained as my best friend died in Sept. that year after a 4 month battle with Osteosarcoma and mom was admitted to Mental Hospital. Well I didn't deal well with it then, but I'm much better now.

 

I knew then that I was too immature for school and decided not to return, I was hoping for Journalism then....not to be.

 

Took a few years to work and grow up. A couple of years bouncing around tried construction - glazier, wasn't for me. Then I was hired at a local Pulp Mill. Best thing that ever happened to me. I was the Team Safety Steward at 20 years and a Volunteer ERT Team Member for 2 years. Grew up tremendously, met my future wife, decided that I would go back to school.

 

Wanted to be an OT, but realistically knowing how competitive it was decided to hedge my bets ( I as leaving a pretty secure well paying position with a good career track in store for me). Did a year of Gen Studies to bring my GPA up, then transfered to Nursing (in case I didn't get into OT) 3. 54 and 3. 53 GPA those two years. When I was in nursing I found that I loved the medical aspect of the job (as well as the people) and though I considered Meds I wanted to prove that I could finish what I'd begun.

 

Accepted to UofA OT in 2004! Yay. GPA took a hit, these kids were hyper competitive 3.1 year one, 3.6 year two. I was President of the Rehabilitation Medicine Student's Association my last year. Volunteered as an Instructor with the Canadian Association for Disabled Skiers.

 

Graduated 2006 and started work in Westlock, AB. Pop. approx 5000. Loved it but my wife and I were living in St Albert and found it too big and unfamiliar to raise our family (first son was born six days after finishing my last practicum.) So we decided to return home. Home is about 5500 people, but I'm originally from a much smaller hamlet 25 minutes away Pop. approx 250-300 people. Two hours from Edmonton.

 

Now I've been working in the local Hospital as well as an adjacent community for almost 4 years. I cover Pediatrics, Long-Term Care (two centers), acute care in the smaller hospital, as well as Outpatient OT Services for the entire catchment area (doing ABI's about 75-150 per year, Dysphagia, Pediatric Splinting (esp. the digital fractures the Docs don't want), Stroke Rehab, Power mobility, home assessment, cognitive assessment and rehab, lead the Rehab portion of the Party Program (new to me this year, it's a lifestyle course for local grade 9's to promote good choices about sex and drinking etc.) I was a Volunteer Firefighter for 2 years until my youngest son was diagnosed with multiple severe food allergies and my wife needed more of me to help cope with the changes. I hated to leave it, but maybe if I don't get in, I'll get the chance to go back.

 

LOR's would be good I belive. Local MD agreed (he's the longest serving in the community) I was a Firefighter with the Mayor of our town, so he's a possiblity. My student advisor in OT is now the president of the World Federation of Occupational Therapists, she might agree. I do have another possible prof that would agree as well. I treat the Local MLA's granddaughter as an outpatient (she's been on my caseload since she was 1 month old and she's now going 1 1/2 years) so he's a possiblity. I also have a possiblity with a VP in Alberta Health Services who was my mentor when I started OT in Westlock.

 

Now I know what my GPA is (not too great, I think I calculated it as 3.44 or so without the Red Deer year). Is Red Deer going to kill my chances?

 

What are the chances NOSM would look at me? I'm as serious as anyone about staying rural as I hate big cities.

 

Thanks for reading and posting.

 

4Runner

 

I'd look into US schools, especially Osteopathic medical schools. They are renowned for taking "non-traditionals", and even with a 0.19, you can explain to them what caused this (make it dramatic), and you still have a good chance. There's KCOM, Kirksville college of Osteopathic medicine, Missouri. There are only ~16,000 people in that town. From one end to the other, it's 3.5 miles wide. I think you'll like it there.

[AndreaM]

How well you do on the MCAT has a pretty strong correlation on how well you can manage to buckle down and study. Except it's over a 2-3 month period rather than a 2 year stretch. If you can't manage it for 2 months then how can you expect to keep up for 2 years?

 

Actually, since the MCAT is more of a logical reasoning test, rather than a knowledge test, it is testing general intelligence more than your ability to buckle down and study. Both times I took the MCAT I studied for less than a month and got scores of 33 and 36 respectively. But, taking the MCAT before totally diving in will give the OP the ability to gauge whether it is worth continuing, because if he can't get a competitive score, it's probably not worth the risk of giving up a good job that he enjoys to spend two years and a lot of money on a second degree.

[bloh]

Actually, since the MCAT is more of a logical reasoning test, rather than a knowledge test, it is testing general intelligence more than your ability to buckle down and study. Both times I took the MCAT I studied for less than a month and got scores of 33 and 36 respectively. But, taking the MCAT before totally diving in will give the OP the ability to gauge whether it is worth continuing, because if he can't get a competitive score, it's probably not worth the risk of giving up a good job that he enjoys to spend two years and a lot of money on a second degree.

 

Now, you're just grasping at straws here. There is a lot of content to learn, understand and remember especially for someone who doesn't have a biology/chemistry background. It doesn't matter how "generally intelligent" you are, if you don't remember the rules of chemical reactions and such you won't do well.

[4Runner]

I'm not too worried about the BS or the chem bit of the PS it's physics in which I lack the background. I dropped Phys 20 in HS as I belived I'd be a journalist back then. Foolish boy. Anyway, picked up a Phys 30 text at a garage sale and am looking at options for MCAT prep books, any recommended reading? The thing I like about math and physics now, is that if you understand how to apply rules and if you can remember the rules you can find the solution (it usually isn't as ethereal as language )

 

I do appreciate everyones input here (I'm sure there are others like me lurking and benefitting from all the responses)

[AndreaM]

Now, you're just grasping at straws here. There is a lot of content to learn, understand and remember especially for someone who doesn't have a biology/chemistry background. It doesn't matter how "generally intelligent" you are, if you don't remember the rules of chemical reactions and such you won't do well.

 

I'm not grasping at straws to say that the MCAT tests logical reasoning, because that is what it tests. Most of the questions are based on passages that give you all the information that you need. To get a 14 or 15 you need to know all kinds of trivia to be able to get the stand alone questions, but other than those, a passing knowledge of the basics is all you need. Your assumption that a high MCAT score is directly related to study skills may be true for some, but not all.

 

We both agree that OP should try out the MCAT before making a firm decision about a second degree, so why argue about it anyway.

[4Runner]

Thanks for all the posts (honest and supportive, really appreciate it). I was wondering what anyone's experience with weighting according to professional degrees might be. I was reviewing my syllabi for an accupuncture course I'm going to be taking in Sept-Oct and noticed that to get an A- in my program an 82%was required. Was this common to those with a straight up BSc in....(chem, bio, math, etc)?

 

Breakdown was:

A+ = 90%+

A = 86-90%

A- = 82-85%

B+ = 80-81%

B = 77-79%

B- = 75-76%

C+ = 72-74%

C = 70-71%

 

I don't have ready access to my old syllabi from previous years, only my OT ones.

 

Thanks for looking.

4Runner