thehockeykid Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 From what i been hearing from doctors and other people in the medical industry, medical residencies are really awful. -long hours -really really bad pay 50-60k (doesn't matter what specialty) -on call -"scut" work, work nobody wants to do I am asking this because I wanted to hear premed's take on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taboo Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 ####, can anyone confirm this? How do I delete my account, or can I just leave it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zunik Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 ####, can anyone confirm this? How do I delete my account, or can I just leave it be? 50-60K is not that bad. But what can you do? You have to do residency and its all about pressure and hard work before cutting you lose. Its not easy and will be probably the toughest part of your medical path. I am not an M.D but I am telling you from other peoples experience that I've witnessed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 -really really bad pay 50-60k (doesn't matter what specialty) LOL, I would never think of 50K a year as "really really bad pay" regardless of hours worked. Granted, residents probably deserve more but IMO 50K's quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shannn Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 ####, can anyone confirm this? How do I delete my account, or can I just leave it be? If you are in medicine for the money, then you may as well close your account and change into something like law because you won't start seeing money for a very long time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylamonkey Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Medcine is probably not the fasest way into money. I have a geology and a biology degree now and would be worth six-figs somewhere up north, but here I am looking to go back to school... OP question: Pre-med take on your question: -I love long hours -That sounds like enough for me to live on easily, I'm not that into money -on call? so? with my husband and dog I am on call now... -work is work, you do what needs to get done. I don't mind doing the work that no-one else wants to do. Doesn't quite sound like hell to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brainz Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 yeah I mean 50-60k is pretty decent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 yeah I mean 50-60k is pretty decent... first couple of years are also tax free pretty much due to the tuition tax credits as well. That 50-60K is the equivalent of a standard persons 65,000 to 80,000 according to my tax calculator here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzurrifan87 Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Well a cardiologist told me they can work anywhere from 60 to 100 hours a week. She didn't mention anything about pay but apparently it does increase as you move up in your residency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Well a cardiologist told me they can work anywhere from 60 to 100 hours a week. She didn't mention anything about pay but apparently it does increase as you move up in your residency. yes it does in a very standardized way. I believe this is the link to it: http://www.pairo.org/Content/Default.aspx?pg=1094 I think you actually earn over 70,000 in your last year of a typical 5 year residency by the way. Overall 60K is pretty much the average over the 5 years. 60-100 hours is a pretty wide range! Did she give a reason for the huge difference? There are a lot of relatively new rules that make call and thus the hours you work far less demanding than it used to be 20 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandibular Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 in quebec, residents cant be worked more than 85 hours a week. also, salary starts at 43 k and goes up by 5 k every year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 You also do have 4 weeks off for paid vacation per year I should add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hking03 Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 I'd have to agree with the majority of posters- 50-60k isn't a bad salary. I make that now and live quite comfortably, granted I work half the hours that a resident works but the perks far outweigh the extra hours. A good way to look at it is like this- the more hours you work in the day, the less likely you are to spend your money... From what I have read the resident's work week cannot exceed 80 hours (am I correct) so when you look at it just in terms of hours worked your wage would be $13.20/hr. And yes, after each year of residency your salary goes up considerably (around 8-10%)- check out this link to see specifics for each province. http://www.carms.ca/eng/r1_program_salaries_e.shtml I'd also like to point out that 4 weeks of vacation is a pretty wicked deal... I'd have to work at my current job for another 6 years in order to have 4 weeks of vacation annually. As for doing the work nobody else wants to do- I would think most positions start out like that regardless of the field... think back to your first job as a dishwasher, busser, delivery person, stock person etc... we start at the bottom to learn and ensure we don't overextend ourselves. Being on call will definitely require an adjustment in lifestyle for most, but from every book that I have read this is when people learn the most about who they are as doctors and what it is to practice medicine. The bottom line is this- residency may be one of the toughest things you go through, but it is temporary and short term compared to the rest of your career in medicine. You'll learn so much and you will adapt- it's what we do after all! Good luck and remember to take it one step at a time, you'll get through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking1 Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Ahaha, OP thinks cash will rain on him/her spontaneously for no given reason, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caylynn Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 I'd have to agree with the majority of posters- 50-60k isn't a bad salary. I make that now and live quite comfortably, granted I work half the hours that a resident works but the perks far outweigh the extra hours. A good way to look at it is like this- the more hours you work in the day, the less likely you are to spend your money... *snip* Agreed. When I graduated from Guelph I actually worked as an engineer for a short while, and I was making 60K a year. Granted, I was only working a typical 40 hour work week, but I was able to live very comfortably on that salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehockeykid Posted August 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 for all you people that think 50-60k is good, LOL!! I would have tuition loans to pay off, family to support, forget about sending my kid to private school, morgages, car loans, and for general surgery residency is like 6 years. Most doctors dont live love Dr Mc Dreamy and live in a trailer park. p.s if i was into the money, i might switch to dental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charmer08 Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 -really really bad pay 50-60k (doesn't matter what specialty lol thats a great starting pay... many other professions start with a much lower pay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medguy5367 Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 I don't understand why Medical organizations do this to residents... Won't the quality of the care the resident can provide go down due to sleep deprivation? Won't the resident start to become rather cold towards "the system"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehockeykid Posted August 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 lol thats a great starting pay... many other professions start with a much lower pay! finishing medical school is a minimum of 8 years of post secondary training. while most professions just require 4 years. And to mind you that medical school isn't easy to get into, we usually come from the best of the best in our classes and i would expect something more for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosuperman Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 The take-home at 60k with no taxes and 100k with taxes isn't that different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 From what i been hearing from doctors and other people in the medical industry, medical residencies are really awful.-long hours -really really bad pay 50-60k (doesn't matter what specialty) -on call -"scut" work, work nobody wants to do I am asking this because I wanted to hear premed's take on this. Such entitlement! Perhaps you should consider another career? Don't go into surgery or internal medicine at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hking03 Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 for all you people that think 50-60k is good, LOL!! I would have tuition loans to pay off, family to support, forget about sending my kid to private school, morgages, car loans, and for general surgery residency is like 6 years. Most doctors dont live love Dr Mc Dreamy and live in a trailer park. p.s if i was into the money, i might switch to dental. I want to be clear that this post is just to show that it is doable to have a family and support oneself during residency without living in a trailer (although, I may want to live like mcdreamy- did you see how much land he owned). I certainly agree that for the amount of time doctors spend in school the starting wage of 50k is on the low side... but relative to the average income in Canada it's not bad. Consider the tuition tax credit like everybody else is mentioning and you have a salary closer to 80-100k gross. If my mom could raise 3 boys and own a house by herself on waitress wages (min. wage plus tips) then I think a 50k yearly salary is livable. Also consider the fact that if you are planning on having kids you would typically have another partner involved, who in most cases would be working up until say 2 months before their due date... they would then collect maternity pay for 1 year afterwards (although at a reduced rate). I have friends who work as teachers and make the same salary as a resident and own a nice home with their 7 month old son with two cars. It's not like they go on european vacations, but they live comfortably. If you have children before entering med school/residency it may be a different story, but in most cases if you have a child in your first or second year of residency by the time they are old enough to attend school (private or public) you would no longer be on resident salary (or in your final years making close to 80k). So, between you and your partner you would on average be making around 100k-150k depending upon their job during residency. This is of course assuming your partner has a job that pays approximately 50k. Also, with regards to paying back student loans a majority of banks offer programs that allow you to defer payments until after residency + 12 months... during residency you would pay the interest (prime). This is a very doable scenario, but requires some thoughtful planning. I'm not saying I agree with the fact that the pay is low relative to the amount of education, but I get where it comes from and understand that it is but a few years of my life. Anyways, I'm getting way ahead of myself- but this is what I'm preparing for and with some planning I think my lifesyle won't be too different from what I have now. On the note of dentistry- this is just a statement from my dentist friend- I wish I went into medicine- way more money. the grass is always greener! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzurrifan87 Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 yes it does in a very standardized way. I believe this is the link to it: http://www.pairo.org/Content/Default.aspx?pg=1094 I think you actually earn over 70,000 in your last year of a typical 5 year residency by the way. Overall 60K is pretty much the average over the 5 years. 60-100 hours is a pretty wide range! Did she give a reason for the huge difference? There are a lot of relatively new rules that make call and thus the hours you work far less demanding than it used to be 20 years ago. Well she was estimating so maybe she was being generous....hard to tell. I think 100 hour weeks are probably rare especially now that things are changing. For internal medicine residents at McGill call shifts are now 16 hours as opposed to 24 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylamonkey Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Such entitlement! Perhaps you should consider another career? Don't go into surgery or internal medicine at least. Yep, and read "The House of God" by Samuel Shem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moo Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 50-60K is a lot of money to most people. You can live a very comfortable lifestyle on 50-60K. As for hours, this depends on what specialty you do. There are really cush specialties (like the one I'm in. 9-5 job essentially--often less because you can often "work from home", minimal on-call, if any. I moonlight as a family doc to make extra $$). Even when I did family medicine residency, it was pretty cush, compared to med school. There were tough rotations for sure, but I'd say out of 2 years, I really only had about 12 weeks of tough rotations (which weren't even that bad). Of course, if you want to kill yourself, you can too. But if you want an easy time in residency, just pick a cush specialty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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