What if admissions were just based on the MCAT?

[thehockeykid]

I was wondering since in undergrad programs there is so much variations between the GPA grading schemes and inflation why not just have admission based solely on your MCAT?

 

or if the MCAT doesn't cover enough re write a new admissions test into medical school.

 

 

note: I think all admissions should all be a test cause it gives so much power up to the teachers/TAs so much power to effect your career. This isn't a strong reference but it is the only one i can think of at the moment, in this movie "All the Right Moves" Tom Cruise is a highschool football player and the coach was blackballing him, blocking him, for getting scholarships. If the coach didn't have a change in heart it could of affected Tom's whole career and stuff. My 2 cents

[justletmein]

Yes and for the people who work their asses off to get a great GPA and have a harder time with the MCAT.... they should be disadvantaged?

 

Sorry, I know there is variation between schools but the bottom line is that if EVERY TA is out to get you, then you either have paranoid delusions or YOU are the problem.

Not saying there aren't many a-hole teachers out there who seem to WANT to hold you back, but not enough to affect your overall GPA if you work hard.

 

The best way to evaluate students is to look at everything: GPA, MCAT, EC, LOR, interview etc to get a global view of the applicant.

 

MCAT is only one small piece of the puzzle.

Being able to ace a standardized test does not automatically make you a good doctor.

[thatonekid]

MCAT tells the adcoms little about who would make the best doctor (though I am aware of the VR studies). It's not like the SATs, where they're testing how well you'll succeed academically in university. Personality traits wouldn't come across in a standardized test of this kind.

 

I kind of agree with your point that there is variation in grading schemes, but I think that it's not so significant that GPA should be disregarded altogether. I just wouldn't have the largest part of acceptances be based on GPA/academics.

[Kubel]

It's been shown fairly conclusively that the biological & physical sciences sections, while predicitive of first and second year classroom peformance in medical school (source), are not correlated with performance in clinical settings. (Source)

 

Even the writing sample has limited predictability on licensing exams (Source).

 

Some select quotes:

 

"Although UGPAs and MCAT scores are good indicators of NBME I performance, they are still not useful in predicting clinical performance" 1

 

"The MCAT score was a strong predictor of medical school performances, particularly those criteria measured by medical school GPAs and the National Board of Medical Examiners examination scores, but its predictive power dropped sharply when clinical performance and personal suitability were part of the performance evaluation." 2

 

"The results of this study suggest that the Writing Sample has limited predictive validity for assessing success on a national licensing exam." 3

 

As we all know, doctors have to be well rounded, both academically (which the MCAT/GPA is a reliable predictor) and clinically (which ECs, Interviews are reliable predictors). So just basing it on the former would give us academically successful doctors, but they may not all be as socially apt as they should be.

 

As far as diversity of institutions goes, this study found that while GPAs varied between institutions, MCAT performance was not a function of which school you've attended. So in that respect, a standardized test would be a better academic measure of ability, but far from a sufficient predictor of success as a physician.

[Corie]

GPA shows some work ethic and determination over the long term. MCAT shows none of that. I'd actually be fine if the MCAT requirement is dropped. Ofcourse schools can only interview a certain number..

[obi]

I think the author meant what if interview offers were sent out given a greater emphasis on MCAT scores..

 

It seems like a reasonable enough idea, although most people just take bird courses to keep their gpa up.

[thehockeykid]

I think the author meant what if interview offers were sent out given a greater emphasis on MCAT scores..

 

It seems like a reasonable enough idea, although most people just take bird courses to keep their gpa up.

 

that is what i ment.

[mattg]

the MCAT tests knowledge of first year science (+orgo), reasoning skills, and critical thinking... it does not demonstrate work ethic, ability to handle a heavy course-load, ability to handle long-term stress, etc... and it definitely doesn't come anywhere near to illustrating personal characteristics and such, as EC's, essays, and interviews do... MCAT will never replace gpa, and will definitely never replace the other stuff

[thatonekid]

that is what i ment.

If that's what you meant, then why did you use the words "just" and "solely". That basically implies MCAT only.

[apache]

ditto! 9 years of medicine is hard work, and 4 years of slaving away for that 3.9 proves to me you're willing to work hard and deal with bull**** stress... see, medicine isn't about being smart, it's about hard work... gpa>mcat

 

hey, i have 98 and 99.9 percentiles in verbal and writing, the two "predictive" mcat scores, but i won't make the best internal med doctor in the world, because there's a few guys in my class that just work way, way harder than me and that's that, i respect them, i don't have that motivation... that's why gpa is important!

 

the MCAT tests knowledge of first year science (+orgo), reasoning skills, and critical thinking... it does not demonstrate work ethic, ability to handle a heavy course-load, ability to handle long-term stress, etc... and it definitely doesn't come anywhere near to illustrating personal characteristics and such, as EC's, essays, and interviews do... MCAT will never replace gpa, and will definitely never replace the other stuff

[<abstract>]

the MCAT tests knowledge of first year science (+orgo), reasoning skills, and critical thinking... it does not demonstrate work ethic, ability to handle a heavy course-load, ability to handle long-term stress, etc... and it definitely doesn't come anywhere near to illustrating personal characteristics and such, as EC's, essays, and interviews do... MCAT will never replace gpa, and will definitely never replace the other stuff

 

Agreed. However I think that the adcoms should take into account u.g. program difficulty. It is not fair that everyone is treated the same when there is such wide differences in program difficulty at different schools and in different programs.

 

I bet you a million bucks it is easier to get a 3.9+ gpa at trent in an arts program than engineering at U of T. An mcat or some sort of standardized test should be given equal consideration if not more consideration than gpa alone for cases such as these.

 

It isn't only gpa that is affected by program difficulty though. EC's and volunteering is also affected cause some students are so bogged down in their studies that it makes it nearly impossible to manage it all.

[mavrik13]

Agreed. However I think that the adcoms should take into account u.g. program difficulty. It is not fair that everyone is treated the same when there is such wide differences in program difficulty at different schools and in different programs.

 

I bet you a million bucks it is easier to get a 3.9+ gpa at trent in an arts program than engineering at U of T. An mcat or some sort of standardized test should be given equal consideration if not more consideration than gpa alone for cases such as these.

 

It isn't only gpa that is affected by program difficulty though. EC's and volunteering is also affected cause some students are so bogged down in their studies that it makes it nearly impossible to manage it all.

 

I somewhat agree, but what about everyone who takes the MCAT 2, 3, or 4 times? I ended up with a 33O on my first try, which I think is worth more than someone elses 3rd attempt where they get a 35R.

 

Ultimately there is no perfect system - but since every school is different, you can find one whose application process favors you.

[Erk]

I got a very high score the first time I took the MCAT, and I would be the first to tell you that's not indicative of my qualifications. However, I'm pretty confident this is a troll thread, so that is all I'm going to throw out there.

[DOC_Ma]

Yes and for the people who work their asses off to get a great GPA and have a harder time with the MCAT.... they should be disadvantaged?

 

Sorry, I know there is variation between schools but the bottom line is that if EVERY TA is out to get you, then you either have paranoid delusions or YOU are the problem.

Not saying there aren't many a-hole teachers out there who seem to WANT to hold you back, but not enough to affect your overall GPA if you work hard.

 

The best way to evaluate students is to look at everything: GPA, MCAT, EC, LOR, interview etc to get a global view of the applicant.

 

MCAT is only one small piece of the puzzle.

Being able to ace a standardized test does not automatically make you a good doctor.

 

This is a good post. Just the MCAT score eh? What if someone has a fluke and gets a 40? What kinda qualities does the MCAT test? It's a 6 hour exam after all. And you think it could be enough to affect a person's career based on a 6 hour exam? Sure there's grade inflations, differences amongst programs. BUT, the bottom line is, the people that get into med are usually the top students from whatever program they r from. This can tell you one thing about these people (not that they r smarter) that they know how to study effectively to make themselves stand out. Also you think assignments Ahole TAs Teachers will hold you back, this is slightly true but mostly untrue. Not all the teachers r out there to get you. Not all the Ahole tas are out there to get you. If you work hard, it will show on your transcript overtime.

[cardiomegaly]

Doesn't work in this day and age - people can take the MCAT a bazillion times if it doesn't work out. A few years ago, you could only write it at 2 times in the year so people took it more seriously.

 

Also, the MCAT selects for people who are good test writers and doesn't test much else...

[repede]

After writing the MCAT, I truly feel that any standardized test is really testing your ability to take a test, more than your actual knowledge or intellectual ability. Especially VR and that silly writing sample.

 

Plus, there are many people I know who'd score with flying colours on the MCAT but would make terrible doctors. Basic chemistry, physics, biology, and organic chemistry are terrible ways of choosing someone for a health care profession.

[iicii]

I think MCAT only would further limit the number of students with lower SES from getting in. Everything from the costs prep courses to sample tests to the cost associated with writing the test itself serves as barriers to doing well for students who are not as well off financially.

[Erk]

I think MCAT only would further limit the number of students with lower SES from getting in. Everything from the costs prep courses to sample tests to the cost associated with writing the test itself serves as barriers to doing well for students who are not as well off financially.

 

While, as I stated earlier, I don't believe MCAT should be used as a sole admissions criteria, I think this is incorrect. I scored very highly with minimal investment (about 100 dollars plus testing cost, and whatever EK audio osmosis costs; got that as a gift). People with fewer financial resources simply need to be a bit creative with their study techniques.

[Robin Hood]

I think English school should have something like the French schools.

French schools use Z Score, which evaluates your position compared to your class, unlike pure grades which depend upon your program's difficulty and on whether or not your teacher is an a**hole.

As for the EC, they can do like Laval which has a Qustionnaire Autobiographique Structuré (QAS) which evaluates what you learned from your experiences. They also ask you about how the qualities they judge essentiel in a doctor are important to a modern physician.

It also seems to me that the MMI are better than the panel interviews.

[thehockeykid]

Okay just to clarify i ment that receiving admissions interviews would be considered primarily on MCAT scores rather than GPA.

[thatonekid]

I think English school should have something like the French schools.

French schools use Z Score, which evaluates your position compared to your class, unlike pure grades which depend upon your program's difficulty and on whether or not your teacher is an a**hole.

One problem with this is that many schools don't report class averages. So the Z-score couldn't be calculated. In order for this to work, many schools would have to change their transcript reporting process, which isn't really feasible.