Dany Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 is it possible to talk your way into a spot unfilled even after 2nd round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 is it possible to talk your way into a spot unfilled even after 2nd round? Yes, and talking your way into it is probably a good way of thinking about things - you have to contact the specific places individually at that point and try to work something out. Does happen from time to time, and people have posted on it. Someone at our school also went through that for the 2011s that are now just starting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Did you not match into what you wanted? Or just not matched into anything.. I thought once you get into med school, it's all easy breezy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ1985 Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Did you not match into what you wanted? Or just not matched into anything..I thought once you get into med school, it's all easy breezy.. That was the biggest lie people told me before I started..... med school is challenging and carms is torture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EoE Posted July 8, 2011 Report Share Posted July 8, 2011 Did you not match into what you wanted? Or just not matched into anything..I thought once you get into med school, it's all easy breezy.. As far as I understand, you are obligated to attend the program you match to! I was surprised when someone told me this the other day. So any program you rank, you have to be ready to attend. I think section 12 on this page says that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 As far as I understand, you are obligated to attend the program you match to! I was surprised when someone told me this the other day. So any program you rank, you have to be ready to attend. I think section 12 on this page says that. Yeah that is true - the CARMS process is binding. Which is why you probably shouldn't rank something you actually wouldn't want to do - you may wind up being stuck with it. Transfers are possible but difficult. Certainly not the sort of thing you want to bank on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 That was the biggest lie people told me before I started..... med school is challenging and carms is torture Yeah CARMS seems like med school applications all over again - except this time you get exactly to apply only once, the selection criteria is even more vague, and it is much more expensive Most people do get what they want, but the odds drop fast if you want a something competitive or really care about a location etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Yeah CARMS seems like med school applications all over again - . It's actually very different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 It's actually very different You would know it from the way the stress level jumped with all of the senior students last year - process is different but the anxiety seems the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted July 9, 2011 Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 No there's less anxiety since lots of people in the class are applying to family only (however some of those are anxious as well especially if they apply to smaller rural fm programs, but most aren't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dany Posted July 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Did you not match into what you wanted? Or just not matched into anything..I thought once you get into med school, it's all easy breezy.. well, I was just supposing that if I don't get matched at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcard Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 What options do those ppl have who don't match at all? Research is one that I've heard of, but how do you go about landing a research position? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 What options do those ppl have who don't match at all? Research is one that I've heard of, but how do you go about landing a research position? Assuming you are just going to reapply research is the main option because as you are no longer a medical student it is a lot harder to get into hospital as a rule as an observer etc. (you are just a member of the general public now, which is a bit of a shock in a sense). You have to beg a prof you are interested in to take you I guess or actively start a grad program and delay things further. Not getting in at all though is pretty rare unless you are not willing to take whatever someone will give you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcard Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Assuming you are just going to reapply research is the main option because as you are no longer a medical student it is a lot harder to get into hospital as a rule as an observer etc. (you are just a member of the general public now, which is a bit of a shock in a sense). You have to beg a prof you are interested in to take you I guess or actively start a grad program and delay things further. Not getting in at all though is pretty rare unless you are not willing to take whatever someone will give you. Hey there, Thanks for the info. About applying to a grad program - that would obviously delay things like you said, but how will it look on your application when you re-apply after finishing your Masters....at that point one would've been out of med school for at least 2 years, yes? Will that be countered by the candidate actually having another degree instead of just flaffing around for two years doing research or smthg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Hey there, Thanks for the info. About applying to a grad program - that would obviously delay things like you said, but how will it look on your application when you re-apply after finishing your Masters....at that point one would've been out of med school for at least 2 years, yes? Will that be countered by the candidate actually having another degree instead of just flaffing around for two years doing research or smthg? Compared to doing nothing it is better from what I have been told if you are not reapplying for 2 years but the the main question is normally how does it hold compared to immediately reapplying into CaRMS - for that the big question is why didn't you match in the first place. If it is a because you chose a competitive speciality to the exclusion of all else than either didn't apply 2nd round, or still were picky in terms of location/speciality/don't interview well etc. The reason makes a big difference and does whether you are going to apply to the same competitive speciality in round two. I have been told that the odds do fall a bit in your second attempt for something competitive for a variety of reasons regardless (for one thing people know that no other school accepted you last time either, which is an indication of the strength of your application - at least in theory). Again I should say how extremely rare all of this is. Very, very few people don't match in their first attempt through the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ophtho_gunner Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 It is depressing to see CMGs, even if they are "very very few," go unmatched while some IMGs will get matched. Just depressing state of affairs for those who worked hard to get into Canadian med school, and worked hard through med school, and worked hard on CaRMS, and went unmatched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ophtho_gunner Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Did you not match into what you wanted? Or just not matched into anything..I thought once you get into med school, it's all easy breezy.. The only thing easy breezy in medical school is to be able to sleep with women in your medical class. Dont fall into people's lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 It is depressing to see CMGs, even if they are "very very few," go unmatched while some IMGs will get matched. Just depressing state of affairs for those who worked hard to get into Canadian med school, and worked hard through med school, and worked hard on CaRMS, and went unmatched. It really is (obviously you run into one occassionally and the often don't seem to be bad candidates - others you just know why they had issues.) Although I guess with the competition so fierce for those very very few IMG spots you have to wonder the IMGs that do get in would actually be better doctors in the end compared to a CMG that was not able to match in two passes at CaRMS. May not be of course, but it would be something interesting to look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostintime Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Most of the IMG's who do match (especially the ones for specialties) are usually as good as CMG's. At least from general observation. I don't know why the family ones have more variation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Most of the IMG's who do match (especially the ones for specialties) are usually as good as CMG's. At least from general observation. I don't know why the family ones have more variation. less competition for those spots overall creating less of a squeezing effect? Just a guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcard Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 It is depressing to see CMGs, even if they are "very very few," go unmatched while some IMGs will get matched. Just depressing state of affairs for those who worked hard to get into Canadian med school, and worked hard through med school, and worked hard on CaRMS, and went unmatched. That's assuming that the matched IMGs didn't work hard to get into med school in Canada, before trying their luck elsewhere (ie: outside of Canada); didn't work hard to get through med school (just b/c international schools are not Cdn doesn't mean they are easy to get through once you're in) and didn't work hard on the CaRMS application. Having said that, I do agree that CMGs really shouldn't go unmatched at all (unless there are some glaring deficits in their application etc) and that there are some IMGs who do match into competitive fields or otherwise who really have no inkling of Cdn culture (even if their knowledge/experience may be good) and poor language skills. All this leaves me very confused about what makes for a successful CaRMS match as an IMG.....I've heard that its mostly luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcard Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Compared to doing nothing it is better from what I have been told if you are not reapplying for 2 years but the the main question is normally how does it hold compared to immediately reapplying into CaRMS - for that the big question is why didn't you match in the first place. If it is a because you chose a competitive speciality to the exclusion of all else than either didn't apply 2nd round, or still were picky in terms of location/speciality/don't interview well etc. The reason makes a big difference and does whether you are going to apply to the same competitive speciality in round two. I have been told that the odds do fall a bit in your second attempt for something competitive for a variety of reasons regardless (for one thing people know that no other school accepted you last time either, which is an indication of the strength of your application - at least in theory). Again I should say how extremely rare all of this is. Very, very few people don't match in their first attempt through the system. The reason for not matching the first time around as an IMG is well....because you're an IMG. I think your last statement applies to CMGs, in which case that's true. I don't think CMGs need to fret THAT much over CaRMS app....it is a long and tough process, but the odds are in your favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 The reason for not matching the first time around as an IMG is well....because you're an IMG. I think your last statement applies to CMGs, in which case that's true. I don't think CMGs need to fret THAT much over CaRMS app....it is a long and tough process, but the odds are in your favor. oh yes, hope that was clear IMG don't get immediately in for an entire other set of reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 This is the biggest bunch of bull**** I've read in life, IMG's get the absolute screw-over, if they're ever allowed to compete fairly on merit against canadian medical grads instead of under the protectionist system in place right now CMG's will really start getting it in the match. Imagine the depressing state of affairs for the IMG I live with who interviewed for 1 neuro spot here, had 4 neuro recommendation letters, off the chart board scores, was a researcher at the Cleveland Clinic, has multiple publications in gastroenterology. He got rejected, but if he had been a cmg, every person interviewed for the spot plus more would have gotten spots, plus a lot fewer people would have applied. I don't think you have a proper conceptualization of the average IMG, they're not your buddy who went to Australia for med school because they couldn't get in here, they're born in countries where they don't nearly have the opportunities you do, travel to canada or the us, go through immigration hell, work as security guards for 5 years while they write all their exams, deal with prejudice and bias in the selection process... (a certain school only takes neuro img sub-specialty apps from people from a certain country etc.) It is depressing to see CMGs, even if they are "very very few," go unmatched while some IMGs will get matched. Just depressing state of affairs for those who worked hard to get into Canadian med school, and worked hard through med school, and worked hard on CaRMS, and went unmatched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildcard Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 This is the biggest bunch of bull**** I've read in life, IMG's get the absolute screw-over, if they're ever allowed to compete fairly on merit against canadian medical grads instead of under the protectionist system in place right now CMG's will really start getting it in the match. Imagine the depressing state of affairs for the IMG I live with who interviewed for 1 neuro spot here, had 4 neuro recommendation letters, off the chart board scores, was a researcher at the Cleveland Clinic, has multiple publications in gastroenterology. He got rejected, but if he had been a cmg, every person interviewed for the spot plus more would have gotten spots, plus a lot fewer people would have applied. I don't think you have a proper conceptualization of the average IMG, they're not your buddy who went to Australia for med school because they couldn't get in here, they're born in countries where they don't nearly have the opportunities you do, travel to canada or the us, go through immigration hell, work as security guards for 5 years while they write all their exams, deal with prejudice and bias in the selection process... (a certain school only takes neuro img sub-specialty apps from people from a certain country etc.) Well said and very true. There is a large (don't have any stats on hand) subset of IMGs that are truly international in every sense with broad clinical experience from their home countries and at par (or even above, dare I say) knowledge and critical thinking skills with CMGs. My perspective as a Cdn IMG has evolved over the last couple of years - if Canada really does need doctors - and it does - then there has to be a better pathway for IMGs (not just for those with years of experience from their home countries, but also for those from Canada) in place. On the background of all the fuss that the MCC makes when it comes to licensing IMGs, I know many doctors who have been hired in under-serviced areas without having had done the MCCEE or QE I, simply because the respective Regional Health Authorities were desperate. While candidates like the one mentioned in muse87's post, are snubbed. Instead of placing all these hurdles for IMGs, just say that we do not, and will not accept medical degrees from foreign countries, and stick to it - done.....problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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