A moral dilemma

[apache]

1) Yeah, totally agree, organized religion is BS, but you have to recognize that while we don't view the world this way, he does, so there's no point trying to argue otherwise when he has different a-priori axioms.

 

3) When you take GHB, you want to have sex with anything that walks, I've seen straight people on GHB engage in sexual activities with people of the same sex because they were so sexually aroused they didn't care who they got off with. I could suggest that the ovulatory period increases sex drive via releasing estrogen, which jacks sex drive in a physical sense (like a hit of cocaine for example). So perhaps the physical satisfaction trumps the emotional/psychological aspect of sex (like the many straight men I've seen have sexual relations with gay men after ingesting GHB because it makes any sexual contact so phenomenologically irresistible that they stop caring who they do it. So is the propensity explained by better DNA or because of increased physiological desire for sex with emotional/cognitive aspects playing a lesser role, very similar to the mania exhibited by polar patients.

 

4) I think you're grossly underestimating the psychosocial make up of the individual, people who are sexually promiscuous often have either emotional lability or a lack of emotion, meaning that an increased sex drive could exponentiate a higher level of emotional lability to motivate the likelihood of cheating. I've never had a girlfriend cheat on me (and as much as you say I don't know, I do, because I'm typically only attracted to cluster B personality people, with moderate antisocial tendencies, and extraordinary intelligence... I don't look at sex as a sense of betrayal, I just tend to form relationships where I'm so emotionally connected with someone that I would be cool with a gf having sex with someone else, because sex can be both an extreme emotional connection or fun, and I tend to look for people who are so unique, that finding each other is like a once yearly event for both of us, so there's no jealousy involved, because there are very few people who so emotionally match what you share together, so a gf having sex with someone is just fun, and nothing I should be emotionally threatened by, and the kind of girl I tend to be attracted to would think the same, if I were to do the same, after talking to her about it of course.

 

4) Sorry to break it to you, but if you have any specific tastes that are out of the norm of a dinner and movie date (such as a gf that is roman catholic), being a medical student doesn't really help you, if you want to date boring people then I concur, saying your a medical student will help.

 

Wow, I can't believe you made a big deal about this.

 

1) Sex before marriage is not wrong. What about cultures where marriage doesn't exist? Are they going to hell? What did humans do to procreate before marriage was invented? Did they go to hell too? Your believe is irrational. Irrational beliefs must be eradicated.

 

3) Women cheat all the time. Most women will cheat on their long term boyfriends eventually. Women are biologically programmed to sleep with masculine men during the most fertile period of their menstrual cycle, but default to their long term boyfriend during their infertile periods. But this is actually a good thing, because you can always safely assume your girlfriend has cheated on you, which gives you a lisence to cheat on her.

 

4) I didn't read your whole original post, but this woman sounds like a scummy *****. You're a medical student. You are therefore high value by definition. High value men don't put up with bull ****. Dump her ass.

[cnb88]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexy_son_hypothesis#Human_sexual_behavior

 

All the citations you need to figure it out on your own can be found from there. And this isn't evolutionary psychology. Researchers have brought in women into labs, arranged them by whether or not they were currently ovulating, and asked them to rate male faces. The ovulating women (fertile) rated the masculine faces as most attractive. The non-ovulating women (infertile) rated the feminine male faces as most attractive. That's strong evidence to suggest that women are naturally designed to have a steady feminine boyfriend to be the "dad" and provide for her offspring (because he's more reliable), and a macho guy to hook up with a few times per month (because he's got better genes).

 

Women cheat naturally. If you can't deal with it, either cheat back or don't have a girlfriend. And all I'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with a pre-emptive strike.

 

 

 

Yeah, I guess they have to bring themselves up somehow. But I let them have this, because one day that nurse is going to be my b**** and she can't do anything about it.

The fact is that doctors = money and money = high value person, therefore doctors = high value person.

 

I promised myself I wouldn't feed the troll.... but so many fails in this post alone just frustrated me. If you want to be a male chauvinistic pig, whatever, but at least get some basic terms right. Let's start out with some basic biology, or hell, English if you will.

 

Bolded statement in your post: Sorry, but that's not the definition of fertile and infertile. Fertile is the ABILITY to have children, while actively trying in a 6 month time period. Or, if you'd like the Oxford dictionary definition, being fertile is: "being able to conceive young". Just because a woman isn't ovulating, doesn't mean she's infertile. Infertility, medically speaking, is the inability to conceive (after active trying) for longer than a year. Oxford definition: "unable to produce offspring". Please get your biology/medical terms straight before posting a bunch of other bullsh!t. It at least makes you seem slightly more intelligent than a 12 year old.

 

Underlined paragraph in your post: Are you actually for real? Where's the peer reviewed journal article documenting the fact that EVERY female cheats? I'm female. I don't cheat on my boyfriend. None of my friends have cheated on their boyfriends. So either I'm not actually XX, or your logic is freaking stupid. And pre-emptively cheating on her? Are you for real? Have you ever actually had a legitimate relationship in your life? Since when is cheating ok for either sex? REAL relationships (not f*ck buddy get-togethers) are based on trust and respect. And if there's cheating, there's no trust or respect, because obviously you don't respect your girlfriend enough not to cheat on her, and it's apparent you have serious trust issues and are paranoid every chick is cheating on you. Although, give your absolutely WONDERFUL qualities, I wouldn't blame any chick that did:rolleyes:

 

Finally, italicized statement in your post: You really think that nurses can't make your life a living hell? If you're an ass to them, they WILL make your life a living hell. They WILL call you at all hours of the night for every little thing. They WILL make sure NOT to cover your ass- a big job for nurses is actually to cover your ass when you make medication errors, or other dumbass errors you make, because I guarantee you, you WILL make errors. It's much better to have them on your side than plotting your demise. Mind you, why am I telling you this? I'd love to see you get slapped with a harassment suit.

 

Seriously dude, get off your male chauvinistic pig pedestal. You are NOT God's gift to women. Sorry to burst your bubble. And also, citing wikipedia? I can make up a bunch of bogus crap, post it to wikipedia and cite it. It doesn't mean that there's any scientific proof behind it.

 

Oh, and as for your "go work out you fat ****", "get plastic surgery", etc bullsh!t, oddly enough, the human race has survived... well, THOUSANDS OF YEARS without all this crap. In fact, even 100 years ago a "fat ****" was considered the most desirable mate because it actually meant her family had enough money to buy food to be well fed. I'm not saying that looks don't play any part in the attraction process, but come on, give me a break. Are you going to break up with a hot-bimbo because she's taking longer than a week to work off the baby-weight? Or what if she has breast cancer- going to dump her then because she needs a double mastectomy and won't have the big tits you think are so amazing? Get a grip on reality and pull your head out of your ass. Seriously.

 

EDIT: Sorry, that last paragraph is in relation to crap you posted in another thread. It's the same sh!t, just a different thread, I just figured I'd keep my post to one thread.

[apache]

i love evolutionary psychology eh? you can make any post-hoc proposition to explain why such and such occurrence happens without having to explain the cause of the occurrence (and even if you can explain the biological cause, explain the mental and phenomenological cause of the phenotypical behaviour associated with the (perhaps testable) biological cause, or being able to replicate your claims through empirical testing to unequivocally show the purported evolutionary advantage. i took a couple evolutionary psych classes, easies a's ever... you know why, because i'm a good bull****ter, and that's what evolutionary psych is mostly about (apparently my ability to grow a thick beard is attractive because the increased testosterone required handicaps my immune system, showing that i am so biologically advantaged that i intentionally handicap myself by suppressing my immune system to show females how vastly superior i am in order to compensate - does that pass the bull**** test - seriously?)

 

Bolded statement in your post: Sorry, but that's not the definition of fertile and infertile.

[Leon]

Whoa, chillax people. It's pretty obvious he/she wanted a flame war. If they didn't, then responding to posts like that is pretty useless.

 

O.O"

[goleafsgochris]

Honestly, I would probably bail over the fact that she lied about the virginity thing. No way I could trust her after that. Am I a bad person?

[cnb88]

Btw OP: I understand where you're coming from to an extent (she lied about her sexual history which could have put you at risk. Plus, as far as lies go, it was a pretty big one). HOWEVER, given her circumstances and possible reasons for the lie (didn't want it to be true, want you to be her first, it was her actually "first time" as a fully WILLING participant, whatever her reason was), I think you have to forgive her for it and move on. Yes, it'll take some time (and couples counseling potentially, if you both so choose) for you to do so, but I think if you both work at it, the relationship could be a good one. Forgive her, and move on from the incident if you can and really do love her and want to be with her. Or, take a break so you both can decide if a relationship is truly what you want. Totally up to you. But really consider what she went through and what you'd want someone to do for a friend, sister, colleague, or future-daughter if she were placed in the same situation your girlfriend is. Think of what you'd want that person's boyfriend to do, and how you'd want them to react. That might help sort out your feelings a little better.

 

Good luck

[goleafsgochris]

Btw OP: I understand where you're coming from to an extent (she lied about her sexual history which could have put you at risk. Plus, as far as lies go, it was a pretty big one). HOWEVER, given her circumstances and possible reasons for the lie (didn't want it to be true, want you to be her first, it was her actually "first time" as a fully WILLING participant, whatever her reason was), I think you have to forgive her for it and move on. Yes, it'll take some time (and couples counseling potentially, if you both so choose) for you to do so, but I think if you both work at it, the relationship could be a good one. Forgive her, and move on from the incident if you can and really do love her and want to be with her. Or, take a break so you both can decide if a relationship is truly what you want. Totally up to you. But really consider what she went through and what you'd want someone to do for a friend, sister, colleague, or future-daughter if she were placed in the same situation your girlfriend is. Think of what you'd want that person's boyfriend to do, and how you'd want them to react. That might help sort out your feelings a little better.

 

Good luck

 

To me, the bad part of the lie isnt about "putting you at risk"--its that she lied about sexual behavior, period. That and the fact that "jealous me" really would not want to be with a chick that lied to try and be pure when she had already been with some other dude.

 

And the excuse that she lied because part of her "didnt want it to be true" or it was her first "willing time"----that is some first degree Dr Phil bull$hit right there, I cant even believe she would have the nerve to use that as an excuse lol, maybe its just me but that would make me way more mad, and untrusting of her.

[Wayward son]

Honestly, I would probably bail over the fact that she lied about the virginity thing. No way I could trust her after that.

 

That and the fact that "jealous me" really would not want to be with a chick that lied to try and be pure when she had already been with some other dude.

 

Maybe I just don't get it. Women I am with don't lie to me about her sexual history because I would never ask about their sexual history. It is none of my business.

 

If a woman is going to lie to you and say that she is a virgin because she feels you are so insecure that you can't handle the idea that she has slept with another man then 1) I think that she should just find someone better and 2) he should work on his own self-esteem and image issues.

[goleafsgochris]

Maybe I just don't get it. Women I am with don't lie to me about her sexual history because I would never ask about their sexual history. It is none of my business.

 

If a woman is going to lie to you and say that she is a virgin because she feels you are so insecure that you can't handle the idea that she has slept with another man then 1) I think that she should just find someone better and 2) he should work on his own self-esteem and image issues.

 

Im not sure your gf's sexual history is "none of your business." It would really depend on the type of relationship you have, wouldnt it?

 

Also, do you really think the girl lied about being a virgin because of his insecurities?! I doubt it. What does insecure have anything to do with it? If guys prefer virgins, it is NOT necessarily because they dont want anyone else to be "compared to" because they feel insecure. For example, it could be that they want to share something with the girl that she has not shared with someone else. It is sort of hilariously over-arching that you think you know the rationale for why every guy who prefers virgins does so. Dare I say over 50% of the worlds male population would give preference for a virgin all else being equal, so I really doubt you can speak for everyone.

 

Also, that really wasnt the point i was making at all...

[Wayward son]

Im not sure your gf's sexual history is "none of your business."

 

Your sexual history is none of my business. My sexual history is none of your business. I extend that simple respect to people I want to hook up with too.

 

It would really depend on the type of relationship you have, wouldnt it?

 

Perhaps you could tell me which type of relationship I could have that would be improved by a discussion about who has done what with whom.

 

Also, do you really think the girl lied about being a virgin because of his insecurities?!

 

Maybe. I mean in the OP case I think it was partly, maybe completely, because he was RC and said that if he was a virgin he wanted her to be a virgin. I brought it up with your two highlighted comments, because you appeared to have a bit of a hang up that some dude might have already touched her -- "Jealous me" Oh no!! She has already been with another dude. -- The few situations I know of where a girl lied to someone I know, or a girl I know lied to someone else about her past sexual history it seems to be because she felt that he couldn't handle the truth. A good friend of mine lied to a guy because she knew that he was pretty inexperienced and more than a little subconscious about that. Plus her previous guy got freaked out after he told her that he had slept with 6 people including her, and she said that she had slept with 8 including him. Oh no!! Julie...got...sob...4 cookies...sob...sob...and I only got 3...sob.

 

There is the old saying that when a guy says how many women he has slept with you should divide it by three to get a more accurate number, and when a girl says how many men she has slept with you should multiply it by three to get a more accurate number. Why? The guy exaggerates because he is insecure. The girl reduces the number....because he is insecure.

 

If guys prefer virgins, it is NOT necessarily because they dont want anyone else to be "compared to" because they feel insecure. For example, it could be that they want to share something with the girl that she has not shared with someone else.

 

You just keep telling yourself that.

 

It is sort of hilariously over-arching that you think you know the rationale for why every guy who prefers virgins does so.

 

I actually made it clear at the start of my post that I was very open to the fact that I just don't get it. I don't get the outdated religious and cultural stupidity that treats women like inferiors, and as objects. I don't get why anyone would think that there is something magical about putting their little wiener some place before anyone has. I also don't get people who prefer to perpetuate a male-dominated patriarchy in which women are supposed to suppress their own sex drives so that some man can feel great about sharing something with her that she hasn't shared with anyone else.

 

Dare I say over 50% of the worlds male population would give preference for a virgin all else being equal, so I really doubt you can speak for everyone.

 

When did I say I speak for everyone? I am well aware of the multitude of views men hold all over the planet and you can damn sure that the last thing I would want to be is the spokesperson for them.

 

Let's assume that the majority of men would prefer to sleep with a virgin everything else being equal. So what? Lot's of people believe in astrology. Other people blow all their money on faith healers. What percentage of those majority of men, that you seem to want to throw your lot in with, hold that view for a rational reason? Seems pretty low to me.

[futurepediatric]

Honestly, I would probably bail over the fact that she lied about the virginity thing. No way I could trust her after that. Am I a bad person?

 

To me, the bad part of the lie isnt about "putting you at risk"--its that she lied about sexual behavior, period. That and the fact that "jealous me" really would not want to be with a chick that lied to try and be pure when she had already been with some other dude.

 

And the excuse that she lied because part of her "didnt want it to be true" or it was her first "willing time"----that is some first degree Dr Phil bull$hit right there, I cant even believe she would have the nerve to use that as an excuse lol, maybe its just me but that would make me way more mad, and untrusting of her.

 

Wooow about time someone said that, I thought I was going crazy reading the rest of thes posts!

[larva]

Maybe I just don't get it. Women I am with don't lie to me about her sexual history because I would never ask about their sexual history. It is none of my business.

 

Knowing the sexual history of your partners is extremely important. Maybe not for a casual hook up, since I'm assuming everyone here would practice safer sex, but definitely if you're looking for an ongoing relationship. I don't mean specific numbers of partners (I agree it's none of anyone's business), just about whether they engage in high risk behaviour, how often they get tested for STI's, do they have any other partners, etc. It's a jungle out there!!

 

PS to the OP: for what it's worth, I don't think I could stay with someone who lied to me like that. Liars drive me crazy.

[Wayward son]

Knowing the sexual history of your partners is extremely important. Maybe not for a casual hook up, since I'm assuming everyone here would practice safer sex, but definitely if you're looking for an ongoing relationship. I don't mean specific numbers of partners (I agree it's none of anyone's business), just about whether they engage in high risk behaviour, how often they get tested for STI's, do they have any other partners, etc. It's a jungle out there!!

 

Unlike my younger days, I no longer go for casual hook ups. If I am with someone and we want to get serious or engage in less safe practices then we would each get tested. That is all that needs to be done, and the doctor can discuss her sexual history with her if either of them feels that is appropriate. If there is something I should know from a public health perspective, then, yes I should know about that (and vice versa). Otherwise, their sexual history is still none of my business. It doesn't matter to me if they have a history that includes many partners, orgies, high risk behaviour, cheating, illicit drug use, or the like. People change. Every relationship is different.

 

I don't see how probing into either of our sexual histories would provide any useful information that testing wouldn't. I am not saying that the current person I am seeing knows absolutely nothing about my history. The odd time something could come up, and it is not like I would expect either of us to shut off the conversation. For instance, one night, we were hanging out with a married couple who used to be swingers and pretty experimental. She asked if I had ever been involved with them. We told her about a night many years ago. She thought it was pretty hot (also downright funny, and pretty innocent). But, otherwise neither of us feel any need to know.

[AtomSmasher]

Bolded statement in your post: Sorry, but that's not the definition of fertile and infertile. Fertile is the ABILITY to have children, while actively trying in a 6 month time period. Or, if you'd like the Oxford dictionary definition, being fertile is: "being able to conceive young". Just because a woman isn't ovulating, doesn't mean she's infertile. Infertility, medically speaking, is the inability to conceive (after active trying) for longer than a year. Oxford definition: "unable to produce offspring". Please get your biology/medical terms straight before posting a bunch of other bullsh!t. It at least makes you seem slightly more intelligent than a 12 year old.

You understood the point. That's good enough for me.

 

Underlined paragraph in your post: Are you actually for real? Where's the peer reviewed journal article documenting the fact that EVERY female cheats? I'm female. I don't cheat on my boyfriend. None of my friends have cheated on their boyfriends. So either I'm not actually XX, or your logic is freaking stupid. And pre-emptively cheating on her? Are you for real? Have you ever actually had a legitimate relationship in your life? Since when is cheating ok for either sex? REAL relationships (not f*ck buddy get-togethers) are based on trust and respect. And if there's cheating, there's no trust or respect, because obviously you don't respect your girlfriend enough not to cheat on her, and it's apparent you have serious trust issues and are paranoid every chick is cheating on you. Although, give your absolutely WONDERFUL qualities, I wouldn't blame any chick that did:rolleyes:

From this moment on, if you ever cheat on your current or future boyfriend/husband, then I was right and I have won this argument. You probably will one day, so I'll put this victory on my credit card so to speak.

 

Not all women cheat on their boyfriends, but most will if they find a better guy. I've slept with numerous women in committed relationships. And it wasn't any harder to get them in bed compared to a single woman. Trust me, if Brad Pitt walked into a room of married women who claim they would never cheat on their husbands, its safe to say they would be proven liars. Attitudes don't predict behaviour.

 

Finally, italicized statement in your post: You really think that nurses can't make your life a living hell? If you're an ass to them, they WILL make your life a living hell. They WILL call you at all hours of the night for every little thing. They WILL make sure NOT to cover your ass- a big job for nurses is actually to cover your ass when you make medication errors, or other dumbass errors you make, because I guarantee you, you WILL make errors. It's much better to have them on your side than plotting your demise. Mind you, why am I telling you this? I'd love to see you get slapped with a harassment suit.

 

Trust me, I don't give a **** about nurses. The only reason they came up is because I said that medical students were high value people, which is irrefutable.

 

Oh, and as for your "go work out you fat ****", "get plastic surgery", etc bullsh!t, oddly enough, the human race has survived... well, THOUSANDS OF YEARS without all this crap. In fact, even 100 years ago a "fat ****" was considered the most desirable mate because it actually meant her family had enough money to buy food to be well fed. I'm not saying that looks don't play any part in the attraction process, but come on, give me a break. Are you going to break up with a hot-bimbo because she's taking longer than a week to work off the baby-weight? Or what if she has breast cancer- going to dump her then because she needs a double mastectomy and won't have the big tits you think are so amazing? Get a grip on reality and pull your head out of your ass. Seriously.

I don't see what is so contentious about what I said. Looks are the #1 attribute that men care about, so if you want more/better men, improve your looks. Plastic surgery is one way of accomplishing that.

[mm88]

You understood the point. That's good enough for me.

 

 

From this moment on, if you ever cheat on your current or future boyfriend/husband, then I was right and I have won this argument. You probably will one day, so I'll put this victory on my credit card so to speak.

 

Not all women cheat on their boyfriends, but most will if they find a better guy. I've slept with numerous women in committed relationships. And it wasn't any harder to get them in bed compared to a single woman. Trust me, if Brad Pitt walked into a room of married women who claim they would never cheat on their husbands, its safe to say they would be proven liars. Attitudes don't predict behaviour.

 

 

 

Trust me, I don't give a **** about nurses. The only reason they came up is because I said that medical students were high value people, which is irrefutable.

 

 

I don't see what is so contentious about what I said. Looks are the #1 attribute that men care about, so if you want more/better men, improve your looks. Plastic surgery is one way of accomplishing that.

 

[Wayward son]

I am not sure if AS is serious either. To claim that one has won the argument because it is possible that someone may cheat in the future is such a logical fallacy that I have to suspect trolling.

 

On a personal level I have never cheated. But I won't say that I could never or will never cheat (Used to say that) because I have been in a situation where I really wanted too, barely managed to exit the situation, and knew that it could have just as easily gone the other way.

 

Don't really care for what I feel is AS' over-exaggeration of the importance of looks. Are they important? Everyone knows that is the case. But similar to what Muse and Aaron have said, there are women who are considered total knockouts who I wouldn't think about sleeping with. I have to be attracted to the person and if I am not attracted to her personality then I will not find her attractive. I also find few things more irritating than meeting a funny, intelligent woman who has had her self-esteem battered because she doesn't meet the criteria of the subset of the population who only care about centerfold looks.

[AtomSmasher]

What I said is what I actually believe. Somebody speaking their honest opinion on an issue is not trolling. All claims of me trolling can be put to rest.

 

I can't even remember what this original topic was about. Nor do I understand who's arguing with who.

[Wayward son]

What I said is what I actually believe. Somebody speaking their honest opinion on an issue is not trolling. All claims of me trolling can be put to rest.

 

OK, trolling was probably not the best word. However, if cnb88 cheats at some point in the time in the future, it does not prove you right or mean that you have won the argument that “women are natural cheaters.” It would be a single data point and therefore anecdotal evidence.

 

Furthermore saying that someone will probably do something some day and therefore claiming victory is a logical fallacy. If she cheats you win. If she doesn’t, well you still claim victory, because you can claim that it just hasn’t happened yet. Sorry, that is not an argument. It is a completely unwarranted assumption you are making that just because something could happen in the future allows you to claim that the likelihood of it are high enough to place it in the affirmative.

[Dongzhuo]

Too lazy to read the entire thread. Too funny. Just wanted to give a big shout out to my fellow meddies- GET A PRENUP. That is all. People cheat. Protect yourself. Don't let your S.O. have the last laugh by cheating on you and still manage to walk away with millions.