towel Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 It's 1500 - 2000 billable hours per year. There is a huge difference between a billable hour and a regular hour, especially when you are a young lawyer. Maybe you will like Bay Street, but most of the people i know on Bay Street are much less than thrilled. They'll do it for a few years to pay off their debt, and then they'll get the hell out. Don't let anyone discourage you if you think you could enjoy law, but unfortunately, the higher-paying jobs just out of law school are generally the most brutal. You will be sifting through piles of documents trying to find one little sentence that might make your case (or thousands of emails...thank god for control f!). It really is not as fun as some make it sound. I don't know what kind of practice your uncle has, but your dad is either not well-informed, doesn't like his brother (j/k ) or your uncle may not be as financially successful as you think he is (and I'm really not trying to offend your family - I'm just trying to drive home the point that law is brutal in terms of hard work if you even want to come close to making what the average physician on guaranteed salary makes, for example). Moreover, in the private practice of law, your salary is not paid by the government. Clients expect a lot, and even the insurance industry is retaliating against the billable hour now, and expecting more for their money. It depends on the type of person you are, and law is extremely diverse, but it is definitely true that most people find the initially lower paying jobs more interesting. If you want prestige, Bay Street is the place to be, but you should go into it knowing that you may never actually go to a client meeting during your articles or even as a young associate. Furthermore, the job market gets worse every year and I know people with degrees who still don't have articling positions. Having said that, big firms do have fun social events! Also, I know you probably feel at the top of your class now, but law school is a whole other ball game. I don't know anything about an A+ fest that Sprinkles referred to (not to say they are inaccurate, though). It will depend on the school, but the schools im familiar with definitely dont award grades like that, and if they did, only one person was allowed to get an A+. There will be a whole class of people just like you, fighting to beat the curve. You can make a real difference as a lawyer, though, and arguably a difference that affects more people than in medicine. You can lobby the legislature or parliament to change laws, for example. You can lead a class action and obtain justice for many in one case. You can help people who have corporate Canada walk all over their rights. Or, as the poster above said, you can make the rich richer. There is a place for everyone in law, but again, I'd stress the reading and writing aspect, because that is what the foundation of law is based on. Honestly though, if you can afford both time and money to do a law degree and then an MD, go for it. There is nothing wrong with having a back -up career. Not everyone gets into medicine. You may also decide you like it, and you also don't have to practice law with a law degree. Although this is where most of the money is, you can do a lot of other things. Feel free to PM me as well if you have any other questions. I am done with the public posting for now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinkles Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 I am not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that there are only 20-30 corporate spots for new lawyers in all of Canada no-no I meant per law firm. My bad. I should have been more specific. Haha if it were only 20 in all of Canada there would be some major back stabbing among peers =p I will say though that I have also never heard of getting an A+ in law school. However, knowing that I am entering with a GPA that is substantially higher than the median accepted, I am hoping to get a mix of mostly A- with some B+'s against a B curve. I can't comment on that....its not something I know of from fact/personal experience...just saying what a friend told me and not that everyone gets As ....as you said Osgoode has a big class so from what I gathered from what this friend told me, she said a handful of people would get As and then majority around the B- to C range. But again, I can not personally verify this. =p Oh and BILLABLE hours is much more different than 'normal' hours as towel mentioned. From the way it was taught to/explained to me in school is that you can't sit down and work on a client's case all day and then bill them the 10 hours you were at work. You bill for your ACTUAL time. If you took a coffee break you cant charge them But it can become a hassle because if you go to a mandatory hour long meeting with your coworkers or if you answer emails or take a phone call you are NOT allowed to bill for it. Thus, chunks of your day are spent with you not getting paid. I recall reading an article about this a while ago...I'll see if I can find it But like I said, try to talk to a few lawyers... especially bay street lawyers if you can (if they have the time! lolll) I got a lot of my info from my law prof who used to work in bay street (and was another drop in the bucket of making me change my mind ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinkles Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 here it is! This pretty much sums up the billable hours quite nicely: http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/CDO_Public/cdo-billable_hour.pdf and from the bay street lawyers turned professors that I've talked to...its not in the slightest bit an exaggeration. You get paid WELL for your hours (a LOT more than a physician) but you pretty much have no life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 I will say though that I have also never heard of getting an A+ in law school. I know one person who in his Masters of Law program received 100% in several exams. However, this is rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 I've wanted to get a JD since first year undergrad, I ended up in medicine because I had an insatiable interest in mental health and neuro, but in the end, it's difficult to make broad scale changes as a physician, and different people are rewarded by different things, so you sort of have to find the fit thats right for you. IMO though being one of these top notch lawyers everyone sees is much more difficult than being a physician, I've already handled quite a few legal things in my life on my own so I know what the work is like, and for me, wanting to get a JD has less to do with law, but with what I can do with that, it's a means to an ends, I really don't know how people can do law if there isn't an area of law they're passionate about (the ends, that is), because at times it's so ridiculously filled with minutia that you want to stab your eyes out, but if your excited about the possibilities about what your work can do, then it's a pleasure, and i'm speaking from multiple experiences, but there's no way i'm going into that, lol. Also, if you want the big bucks, be prepared to work like a dog (which is much easier if you're doing something that's congruent with what you want to see in the world, believe me), you want that big job, you better know someone, or be that top 10 student with great summer internships and a great EQ. Law isn't medicine, bad doctors make good money (mcmedicine), bad lawyers make student loan payments at 40, lol. If you want it though, go for it, but if you really want med, I personally wouldn't worry about starting a little later, you can do so much in the next couple years until you get in, and do a career you love... i remember the lawyer that was in my class that didn't even do the 1 year clerkship they hated it so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 but you forget that the law applies to many aspects of public life, a person with a good understanding of law and medicine can make unique and very valuable contributions to society. in the end, you're not serving two masters, you're amalgamating your skills to serve a very unique purpose. frankly, i could never imagine doing a single profession for the duration of my life, but, of course, everyone's different. I would find it hard to pursue one profession and simultaneously want another profession. A profession is generally something that in no small way defines who you are (that is why the root of the word is "profess", you profess to be a lawyer, doctor, dentist, etc). If you really want medicine then take a year off, find a job (even if it is in customer service), continue volunteering (or find something meaningful that will give you a great reference) and maybe do some coursework. Put your all into becoming a doctor. I know it feels like time is ticking, but life is not a race it is a marathon. You have many, many years ahead of you. If all you want to do is find a job that pays well and gets you respect then by all means go into law, dent, pharmacy, nursing or whatever will take you. Whatever you do though, you need to put your all into it. I know it sounds idealistic, but it is very difficult to serve two masters. You will inevitably hate the one and love the other (I stole this from the bible btw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinkles Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 I know one person who in his Masters of Law program received 100% in several exams. However, this is rare. Masters of Law is very different from Law school. Its a weird sort of distinction...I'm studying a bachelor of Law right now...but its not the LLB/JD "bachelor of law" its a general arts degree. There are two 'legal' paths one can follow. A) Go to Law School --> become a lawyer or B)Get a bachelor--> Master in Law --> Phd in Law--> work in academia (of course lawyers can work in academia too) Also, if you want the big bucks, be prepared to work like a dog (which is much easier if you're doing something that's congruent with what you want to see in the world, believe me), you want that big job, you better know someone, or be that top 10 student with great summer internships and a great EQ. Law isn't medicine, bad doctors make good money (mcmedicine), bad lawyers make student loan payments at 40, lol. THIS! I know many lawyers who work long hours (for themselves) and barely make 40 k. The big law firms is where the money is but as the poster mentioned above ....you gotta work like a dog! My Law prof told me how it was just too much for him. He was the top of his class (even worked at the Supreme Court**highly competitive**!) and he got hired by one of those top gun law firms. He said that as a 3rd year associate he was charging companies about $450 an hour! But why did he quit with such good money? He said there was this one point where he had worked EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. (Monday to Sunday) from 8 am to midnight for about 2 months! And then he decides to take the morning off (morning - NOT the day!) to have brunch with his wife (probably to be like..oh hai! Remember me? Your husband? we haven't really seen each other in 2 months lolll). And then he said he opened up a newspaper and was reading the news and it hit him....he had no idea what was going on in the world! In the past 2 months he had been SOOOO busy that he hadn't had 15 minutes to read a paper!!! Sure he was making BANK! Could you imagine how much he was making working that many hours with $450 an hour?!?! But at what expense? :/ In a way he was smart. Slaved away for 3 years and was probably able to buy a nice big house and have savings...then he quit and now he teaches (makes less than 6 digits but he says he is happy ) SO it really does come down to 1) Are you the best? (to get the job) 2) Will you be able to handle the job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 Masters of Law is very different from Law school. Its a weird sort of distinction...I'm studying a bachelor of Law right now...but its not the LLB/JD "bachelor of law" its a general arts degree. There are two 'legal' paths one can follow. A) Go to Law School --> become a lawyer or B)Get a bachelor--> Master in Law --> Phd in Law--> work in academia (of course lawyers can work in academia too) A law degree is only granted by a law school and not in an arts degree nut for sure, there can be law type courses within an arts program. This person obtained 2 LL.B., one in civil law, the other in common law, joined the Bar and then obtained a LL.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinkles Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 A law degree is only granted by a law school and not in an arts degree nut for sure, there can be law type courses within an arts program. This person obtained 2 LL.B., one in civil law, the other in common law, joined the Bar and then obtained a LL.M. yes thats what I'm saying. I technically will have a 'degree' and it will be in 'law but its not a law degree hum. I'm not explaining myself well....I blame it on the 3 hrs of sleep I had a night ago. I'm all wonky. hehe sorry for the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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