CaptainCrunchMan Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kristoria Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 I'm 34, finishing my PhD and applying to med school. I know I'm older than most people here, but so what. With respect to learning, I think I'm at my peak. I have 12 years of research experience that gives me invaluable perspective. I am able to absorb new information much better than I ever could as an undergrad. 24 is young. And you know what, 34 is young too! Yeah I feel pressure from my boyfriend to finish school, and I'd like to have a family someday, but if my boyfriend can't accept that I want to follow my dreams then he's not the right guy for me. To thy own self be true. I think you should not be discouraged. If you want to be a doctor why would you go to law school? Do you really want to be a lawyer? Or do you want to be a doctor? I know for PhDs they make your supervisor sign a form saying that you will be finished your PhD before med school will accept you. They don't look favorably on PhDs dropping out to go into medicine at all. At least not at U of T. Law school might be different. Good luck to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 I am wondering though if adcoms would frown upon someone in a fairly competitive professional school applying before completion of their program? Also, does anyone know what kind of degree UWO med considers law to be? I checked their website, and I see that starting a second undergrad would make me ineligible, but I'd be in a JD program which I don't think is a bachelors. Certainly a LL.B. is a bachelors degree. I would imagine so is a JD. Two years ago University of Ottawa Law School decided to change its LL.B. to a JD degree and gave the option to their every graduate with a LL.B. to change it to a JD. These graduates did not suddenly attain a graduate degree! I encourage you to continue with this excellent plan. You do not now need to know law. This is what law school is for. Many of the same characteristics are required for lawyers and physicians, including critical & ethical thinking under time constraints, striving for excellence, being innovative, excellent communicator and more. Both are high in developing expertise and in intense intellectual stimulation. As for adcoms asking you why the switch, let the truth set you free, i.e., you have always had a love for medicine, as previously not accepted, law was your Plan B, the study of which is stimulating, fascinating and making you a better candidate - and you are continuing your dream of medicine as you will live life with no regrets. I wish you every success. Moreover, there is at least one Canadian:) who has obtained in the US both a law degree and medical degree! And a hint for law school: in any class, you may be given 10 cases to read; these add up quickly. You need to know what to read, i.e., the leading case but in abbreviated version. You don't need to read all the cases, there is just not the time to do so. Moreover, you will be filling your head up with unnecessary material that you don't need to remember. What is important are the principles, knowing them, understanding them. You will go into the law library and see students going crazy studying. This is not necessary, it is not medcial school. A family member has recently has just obtained 3 law degrees in record time, and for his first law degree he worked fulltime (40 hrs/wk) as a waiter, with many time consuming activities - so as not to be able to overstudy. He graduated cum laude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towel Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Law degrees are undergrad degrees, whether they re termed LLB or JD, and will generally be weighted as such when you apply. My caution to you would be to contact each of the medical schools you wish to apply to in order to see if they the law grades will factor into your gap formula. There is almost no such thing as an A+ in law school, and even A's are difficult to obtain. In this regard, a law degree can actually hurt you if you're applying to a school like Ottawa or Mac that counts the grades towards your Cgpa and offers no weighting formula to compensate for the greater difficulty of law school. Grades are obviously used as the first cutoffs for most schools, but there are some with different weighting formulas. Having said that, a law degree will train your brain to think critcally and approach problems in a way that your future medical peers may not. You will also have a far better understanding of how society functions, and i think it will definitely make you a better physician. It will probably help you a lot in the interview. Law school costs a lot of money, though, and depending on your personal financial situation, you may not be able to do both. I believe at least some provincial student loans do not give funding for more than one professional degree, so it might be similar with federal. I don't know how banks would view it, but you could always ask. If you have access to the money to pay for it otherwise, then it won't matter. Law can also be a very rewarding career, but there is a lot of paper, reading, and writing involved. If you like these things, then I think you should give it a shot. It's not as glamarous as on tv though - hardly anyone goes to trial anymore because it's too expensive. You will probably work just as hard as a resident when you article, and you'll probably work harder than staff physicians generally when you're a practicing lawyer (if you want to be successful). You don't need any prior knowledge of the law to go to law school. With respect to your question about applying while in law school, again this is something you'd have to contact individual schools about. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 With respect to your question about applying while in law school, again this is something you'd have to contact individual schools about. I wouldn't overtly bring it to their attention, rather I would be prepared to deal with it in a panel interview. I do not believe it to be an obstacle for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towel Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I should clarify what i meant - some schools will not let you apply if you are mid-degree, which is why you should contact individual schools. Otherwise, I'd agree with future_doc. Sorry about the spelling above, too...iPad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futurepediatric Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Sorry to hear the news about this cycle CaptainCrunchMan and congrats on your law acceptance, I feel so excited for you! Not going to lie though... I'm secretly hoping you will apply to medicine next year again unless you find to really enjoy law ofcourse Sorry I know this post was kind of useless b/c I can't really give any advice since I'm in first year and don't know much about this lol, but good luck in whatever you choose and on the MCAT that you write in a couple of months :) I'm sure all the Yorkies are rooting for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I'm 34, finishing my PhD and applying to med school. I know I'm older than most people here, but so what. With respect to learning, I think I'm at my peak. I have 12 years of research experience that gives me invaluable perspective. I am able to absorb new information much better than I ever could as an undergrad. 24 is young. And you know what, 34 is young too! Yeah I feel pressure from my boyfriend to finish school, and I'd like to have a family someday, but if my boyfriend can't accept that I want to follow my dreams then he's not the right guy for me. To thy own self be true. I think you should not be discouraged. If you want to be a doctor why would you go to law school? Do you really want to be a lawyer? Or do you want to be a doctor? I know for PhDs they make your supervisor sign a form saying that you will be finished your PhD before med school will accept you. They don't look favorably on PhDs dropping out to go into medicine at all. At least not at U of T. Law school might be different. Good luck to you! good luck! 30+ applicants are actually relatively common - I see 3-5 it seems each year at Western coming through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I'm secretly hoping you will apply to medicine next year again unless you find to really enjoy law ofcourse Law school does not give any indication of what practice will be like nor can you begin to even try to put the package together until articling. In other words, you really don't know what law in the real world is about from the study of law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futurepediatric Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Law school does not give any indication of what practice will be like nor can you begin to even try to put the package together until articling. In other words, you really don't know what law in the real world is about from the study of law. I meant law school *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holiday1001 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I'm curious- did you write the LSAT? I've taken a look at a sample LSAT and it seems like a really long VR section.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I think you are much more mature and more advanced in this game than I am.. but I can give my opinion? You have waited this long to get in, I think it would be worth while to keep trying and get in. Aim for the high VR (11+) and you will get the western and mac interviews, queens as well if other parts are good. UofT seems like luck, but with good writing, its doable. do you see the pattern? I feel like it all comes down to time. If we had enough time to study for the mcat, we could have done much better. Time is something you can spend on studying for mcat, writing better application (sketch and letters). Do you want to try america? Everyone says we will get in somewhere if we apply early (June) on the other hand, I know people that wanted to be docs, but couldn't and are now doing something totally different but actually love their job. they work so much, and even though its 12 hours a day, they actually choose to do that much because they love it so much. You might like law? Just don't go to law school thinking you could have/should have been in med, because I think you will hate your time in law school if you think like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futurepediatric Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I think you are much more mature and more advanced in this game than I am.. but I can give my opinion? You have waited this long to get in, I think it would be worth while to keep trying and get in. Aim for the high VR (11+) and you will get the western and mac interviews, queens as well if other parts are good. UofT seems like luck, but with good writing, its doable. do you see the pattern? I feel like it all comes down to time. If we had enough time to study for the mcat, we could have done much better. Time is something you can spend on studying for mcat, writing better application (sketch and letters). Do you want to try america? Everyone says we will get in somewhere if we apply early (June) on the other hand, I know people that wanted to be docs, but couldn't and are now doing something totally different but actually love their job. they work so much, and even though its 12 hours a day, they actually choose to do that much because they love it so much. You might like law? Just don't go to law school thinking you could have/should have been in med, because I think you will hate your time in law school if you think like that. Agreed ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I completely didn't even answer your question in my last post how long is law school btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylamonkey Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I really think you should rewrite the MCAT too. Reapply. Ask UWO if you can apply while in mid-JD. BTW- I have to rewrite. Mine is from 2007, so it expires this year ( )- and it's a 33R with a 10VR. Hopefully I'll see you in the MCAT subforum, and I'll offer to study with you over skype if you like. Physics is my specialty. If the JD is a bachelor's degree: -you can't apply to NOSM -you can apply to mac, ottawa -you can apply to uofc (does the 10-yr-rule do anything for you?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeb88 Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 If the JD is a bachelor's degree:-you can't apply to NOSM -you can apply to mac, ottawa -you can apply to uofc (does the 10-yr-rule do anything for you?) If it's a bachelor's degree, UWO may not allow you to apply until your final year of JD as well. I would contact med admissions offices for clarification before you make a decision. I agree with everyone else though, med is clearly what you want to do. You've been trying for so long already, why give up now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock33y Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 I think you shouldn't give up. As everyone else said, you have the passion for medicine. Instead of law, why not pursue a 2 years Masters, rewrite the MCAT, and keep the torch bright for the next application cycle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 5, 2012 Report Share Posted February 5, 2012 Nope, don't want to be a lawyer. Just seemed like a reasonably good backup option. I was thinking about doing a research-based Masters, but that's two years already, so its only a one year difference. Yes, I know the switch was recent. The point of it was to distinguish Canadian degrees from those earned in Europe, where you can get in directly from high school, so it really is a bachelor degree. It's just confusing because JD=Juris Doctor, which seems to imply that it's an advanced level of schooling and distinct from professional programs like BEd/BScN/BSW. Will probably have to email the schools on this one. Mac had a blurb on their site, but it looked outdated and only addressed LLB's. Also please PM me if you have any more of those useful study tips! Yeah, I'm not so concerned with the financial aspect of it, but if I am to make the switch, I'd prefer to do so after first year. Hence my concern over how the degree would be considered. Regarding the workload, my dad, who is a doctor, says that his brother, who is a lawyer, has no idea what hard work is lol. Thanks, that actually means a lot Rmorelan- do you know what the rule for JD applicants at UWO is?? I may have to phone them otherwise. Yep, I did. Every Canadian law school requires it. It's actually not bad, only 1/4 of it is actually like VR, 1/2 is these short questions where you have to find flaws in the reasoning which is quite easy if you have a research background, and 1/4 is logic games. To give you an idea of the level of difficulty, I only got a 9 VR on the MCAT, and for the LSAT I studied two weeks, wrote with a concussion, and still scored high enough for UWO, Queens, and Osgoode...and Ottawa, had I applied there. I believe an JD just like an MD believe it or not is just another undergrad degree. Only Masters or pHDs count as graduate work. That being said of course if your "life depends on" I would confirm with the office Once you start that degree regardless though Western will expect you to finish it which is another consideration. They don't accept med stream masters or phd students either - so regardless of whether it is a UG or grad program you would have to finish it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markov79 Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 i don't know too much about it, but i did hear that professionals with the llb/jd + md pair of degrees are very attractive/useful for health care centres... it would seem to make senes, too? obviously, though... i wouldn't think it's worth entering into a full 4-year degree "just to be more attractive as a new hire"... one would think either of those degrees is "attractive"/useful enough? i dunno lol dunno i. please feel free to correct... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof.A.DumbleDore Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Honestly, you sound like you are not thrilled on Law. However, I wouldn't group all law students in one category or assume they wouldn't like you. I am sure there plenty of cool people in law, like there are in medicine. If there's any chance Law can be a profession for you, then go for it. However, if you are really set on medicine and believe it will make you happy, keep chugging. That SWOMEN status is a huge advantage and I would definitely advise you to give the MCAT another shot this summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrMullen Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 To thy own self be true. BOOM! I needed to hear that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kaiser Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 I would find it hard to pursue one profession and simultaneously want another profession. A profession is generally something that in no small way defines who you are (that is why the root of the word is "profess", you profess to be a lawyer, doctor, dentist, etc). If you really want medicine then take a year off, find a job (even if it is in customer service), continue volunteering (or find something meaningful that will give you a great reference) and maybe do some coursework. Put your all into becoming a doctor. I know it feels like time is ticking, but life is not a race it is a marathon. You have many, many years ahead of you. If all you want to do is find a job that pays well and gets you respect then by all means go into law, dent, pharmacy, nursing or whatever will take you. Whatever you do though, you need to put your all into it. I know it sounds idealistic, but it is very difficult to serve two masters. You will inevitably hate the one and love the other (I stole this from the bible btw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinkles Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 hey! Congrats on the acceptance to Law School. I think I'll probably re-say what has been said above that if you are truly passionate about medicine you should probably try again. It may seem like a 'big deal' now if you don't get in for a year or two but in the BIG scheme of things..... if you live to 80, it really isnt that big of a deal. Its best to be delayed by a few years and do a life of something you love rather than the opposite! I'm actually in a 'somewhat' similar situation but not really...?The plan since high school was law school. But I changed my mind about a year ago and am on the (hopefully!) medical school track. So I will offer you some advice about law school/becoming a lawyer from someone who was dead set on it for almost 8 years (and been planning accordingly). First, being a lawyer can be a very rewarding and challenging career. As someone else mentioned it is VERY intense in the reading and writing category. My number 1 word of advice for you? The main reason why I changed my mind is that I realized Law school and the life of a lawyer is NOTHING AT ALL like how I imagined it. We have a glorified view of what it is to be a lawyer: prestigious job, lucrative pay, easy work..etc etc ...this is just simply NOT true. I feel you may be a bit under this presumption of 'what law will be'. (You mentioned your Uncle is a lawyer and 'doesn't do anything' - thus assuming Law is easy money? VERY WRONG) So a few misconceptions: 1) Law 'work' is easy - I myself was heavily influenced by this. I figured, I'll work hard in school and first few years after I become a lawyer, and then sit back and let the money roll in. I'll work a few hours a day on MY terms. This was a misconception I had because of my parents lawyer, a 60 year old who matched this description. I have realized that this is NOT the case at all! Even when you make partner in a law firm you will be having LONG days. Sometimes 12 hours a day/7 days a week! 2) LUCRATIVE MONEY - Especially in the case of Canada Money = NOT EASY. The way our system is set up you wont be making any 'easy money'. Not only are you working long hours, you are not guaranteed any big money! You will come out of school with about 150K debt, and then you will be forced to choose which area of law you want to work in. Human Rights? Tort? Legal Aid? You would be looking at about $30K and up a year with HORRIBLEY long hours. You want good money after having 150k debt? Great! But so does everyone else. The BIG MONEY in Canada is in Corporate law, yes, you will work horribly long hours, but you will be making the big $$!! But guess what? there are probably only 20-30 of these positions in ALL OF CANADA and EVERY law school graduate wants that job! The big jobs are on Bay Street (Toronto). If you go any where else the money isn't good. If you work in Ottawa, the pay is at about $40,000 (10,000 less than a Resident!) NO easy money in Law 3) Most important : PASSION. They always say if you do not love your job, you will not be happy in life. This is *especially true* in law. And one of the main reasons why I abandoned the path. I realized that, best case scenario, I get a bay street job - but would I be happy? No. I would love to practice human rights law and help people who cannot help themselves, but when drowning in close to $200,000 of debt and in my late 20's, accepting a job where I work 80 hrs a week and make only $30k....hard to swallow. Bay Street Job? I hate corporate law but I know I would be excellent at it if I wanted to....but then I thought to myself....Do I want to dedicate my LIFE (and believe me it will be your life...when will you have time to have a family or for hobbies when you are working 8-am to midnight 7 days a week?) to a job, work these long hours, so that...what? I make rich companies richer? I help a rich company screw over the little guy? This was the major reason (of many) to pursue medicine. Medicine (I enjoy) Law (I enjoy); difference? Medicine you work long hours to HELP PEOPLE.....(Corporate) law you work long hours to basically screw people over... The rewarding factor goes away quite fast So My BIG WORD OF ADVICE THAT I WISH SOMEONE GAVE ME YEARS AGO?! TALK. TO. LAWYERS. Not just one or two, or three but as many as you can, in different fields. Don't look at one or two people who 'have it easy' and think its like that for everyone! (It just like assuming just because one Family Doctor is making 700K a year then EVERYONE will) But anyways! Sorry for the uber long post and I really really hope I didn't discourage you from law, it wasn't my intention (believe it or not I actually love law!) I just wanted to give you accurate and realistic info to base your decisions on. Either way best of luck to you on whichever path you follow Feel free to PM if you have any other questions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinkles Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 oh! And in terms of GPA affecting/being able to leave....contact each school and ask them specifically. But affecting GPA it can be brutal if you turn out to not be great at law and AWESOME if you are. Law school grades are curved. A friend of mine who was a pretty good student (would get As) is now struggling A LOT because of the curve. (shes constantly crying to me about it ) She says that a few people get curved up to an A+ but the curve is designed so that the majority of people fall in the C (B is very rare). So you might want to be aware of this if you want to apply again after 1st year...dont want it to ruin your GPA! But this is just what she told me and her experience (she goes to Osgoode so I don't know if that helps) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 law friggin blows lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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