jerkstore Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 How many hours a week does it require from you? If you've finally finished your Plastics surgery let's say, you're now making the big bucks - and you start a fellowship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerkstore Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 One more question, Once you "match" - don't you still have to go and do interviews? Or are the interviews before you match on CaRMS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 No, fellowship pay is at residency level pay (or lower). I've seen lots of fellowships in the US pay really low 30k etc. you aren't making the big bucks as a fellow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerkstore Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Wow so Surgeons willingly take a $200k+ hit for more training? Admirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234 Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Wow so Surgeons willingly take a $200k+ hit for more training? Admirable. It's admirable to learn your craft so that you don't kill your patients? Just because you get through residency doesn't mean you have had enough exposure to the procedures that will make up your practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 It's admirable to learn your craft so that you don't kill your patients? Just because you get through residency doesn't mean you have had enough exposure to the procedures that will make up your practice. and many centres will not hire you without one - and not just anyone but a specific fellowship that fits into their hospitals needs. They are just an expected part of the system now. So often you cannot start earning the "big bucks" Of course not just surgeons do these. There may be opportunities for moonlighting though - you are a full fledged doctor by that point. Interviews for matching are in Jan/Feb. Match results come out in March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerkstore Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 It's admirable to learn your craft so that you don't kill your patients? Just because you get through residency doesn't mean you have had enough exposure to the procedures that will make up your practice. I actually wasn't being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerkstore Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 and many centres will not hire you without one - and not just anyone but a specific fellowship that fits into their hospitals needs. They are just an expected part of the system now. So often you cannot start earning the "big bucks" Of course not just surgeons do these. There may be opportunities for moonlighting though - you are a full fledged doctor by that point. Interviews for matching are in Jan/Feb. Match results come out in March. What does that mean? You do a fellowship part time while still earning the big bucks? If you were an Orthopod, why would you HAVE to do a fellowship in hand surgery or something after your 5 years of residency? Just because of competition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Med0123 Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Because you do NOT have enough clinical/OR exposition during your residency to claim you are a HAND SURGEON MASTER, you need to have a dedicated training of at least 1 year in this area. In Canada I think hand surgery is mostly done by plastic surgeons btw Moonlighting: doing a fellow FULL TIME and working on your free time in your base specialty. Hence "moonlight", cuz your free time was historically often taking calls during the night/weekends Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooty Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 If you were an Orthopod, why would you HAVE to do a fellowship in hand surgery or something after your 5 years of residency? Just because of competition? they don't have to do anything. they do it because they like'd operate on hands. medicine is expanding wider than 5-year residencies can hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerkstore Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 they don't have to do anything. they do it because they like'd operate on hands. medicine is expanding wider than 5-year residencies can hold. Yes but he said you probably won't get hired without having completed a fellowship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 What does that mean? You do a fellowship part time while still earning the big bucks? If you were an Orthopod, why would you HAVE to do a fellowship in hand surgery or something after your 5 years of residency? Just because of competition? More the other way around - you do your fellowship full time (and by full time I residency style full time ) and you do some extra shifts on top of that as a consultant. Depends on the service if that is possible - if it is you can get a nice boost. You would have to do the fellowship because if you wanted to operate say on hands you probably won't have covered enough of that in residency to actually be all that good at it yet, no one would send you any hand cases because they know you wouldn't be any good at it yet, and no one would hire to work in a place where you could specialize in that. Bottom line is you would get no work without it and yeah the competition doesn't help. Now a days in a lot of surgery fields the fellowship is just plain required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerkstore Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 I can't believe it takes a year of resident-like intensive work just to learn the hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Cloak Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 I can't believe it takes a year of resident-like intensive work just to learn the hand. Just ask yourself: how much residual disability would I accept in the function of my hand(s)? The hand is an incredibly complicated piece of equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 I can't believe it takes a year of resident-like intensive work just to learn the hand. In all seriousness it takes more than a year. The year just gets you an invite to the party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerkstore Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 In all seriousness it takes more than a year. The year just gets you an invite to the party. So 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, 5 years ortho res, 2 year fellowship. 15 years before I can move out of my parents basement! Luckily it looks like my Orthopod's fellowship was less than a year: http://mds.servicerating.ca/Dr/Crystal_Anne_Smith Tell me, what does an Anesthesiology fellowship uhhh....what do you learn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 So 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, 5 years ortho res, 2 year fellowship. 15 years before I can move out of my parents basement! Luckily it looks like my Orthopod's fellowship was less than a year: http://mds.servicerating.ca/Dr/Crystal_Anne_Smith Tell me, what does an Anesthesiology fellowship uhhh....what do you learn? If you are living in your parent's basement and don't want to when you are earning over 55K a year then you made an interesting personal choice On a serious note - no doubt - it is a long haul. I guess I just passed the 1/2 way mark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerkstore Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 If you are living in your parent's basement and don't want to when you are earning over 55K a year then you made an interesting personal choice On a serious note - no doubt - it is a long haul. I guess I just passed the 1/2 way mark! Can I come live with you or your parents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 So 4 years undergrad, 4 years med school, 5 years ortho res, 2 year fellowship. 15 years before I can move out of my parents basement! Well some of us like to stand on our own two feet by taking responsibility for our lives, living life on our terms and owning up to the realities of life. Some want their lives made easier by having others do for them. Choice is yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerkstore Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 Well some of us like to stand on our own two feet by taking responsibility for our lives, living life on our terms and owning up to the realities of life. Some want their lives made easier by having others do for them. Choice is yours. That was more hyperbole. The second I started making money in residency I'd get out of dodge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 That was more hyperbole. The second I started making money in residency I'd get out of dodge. First, that's assuming 1) that you get into medical school; and 2) that you get into a school within a close proximity to home (what are going to do during clinical years when on call and need to be at the hospital within a short time window?); I moved out when I was 18 and I am glad I did. It taught me valuable life lessons about having to be responsible for my own actions and the consequences if I wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerkstore Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 First, that's assuming 1) that you get into medical school; and 2) that you get into a school within a close proximity to home (what are going to do during clinical years when on call and need to be at the hospital within a short time window?); I moved out when I was 18 and I am glad I did. It taught me valuable life lessons about having to be responsible for my own actions and the consequences if I wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 The problem with the ever increasing number of fellowship physicians is that we are making people do fellowships simply to be competitive for jobs. People simply do them because that's the market right now. It's a shame. You may need a fellowship to work in a big academic center, but you shouldn't need a knee fellowship to work in community practice in a town of 50k. Unfortunately, because of the job market, that's rapidly becoming the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 17, 2012 Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 The problem with the ever increasing number of fellowship physicians is that we are making people do fellowships simply to be competitive for jobs. People simply do them because that's the market right now. It's a shame. You may need a fellowship to work in a big academic center, but you shouldn't need a knee fellowship to work in community practice in a town of 50k. Unfortunately, because of the job market, that's rapidly becoming the reality. My big fear with stuff like that in the long run is it makes particular doctors very fragile to any sort of change in the field - in fact we become so insulated we resist or cannot conceive of change. Highly trained doctors can be completely obsolete very quickly with technology change. There is something to be said about being an effective generalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerkstore Posted June 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2012 So taking a look at fellowships for Pathology as an example: http://residency.wustl.edu/medadmin/resweb.nsf/L/00B99E6658DE1A2E86256F8F00743537?OpenDocument I assume all of these areas are covered during residency, this is just to become an absolute expert in a particular one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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