ArchEnemy Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 Hey everyone! I would like to know how competitive or difficult it is to get into Internal Medicine sub-specialties such as Cardiology, Nephrology or Gastroenterology. I understand that you would first have to complete 3 years of post-graduate training in Internal Med before sub-specializing. Would you say that the aforementioned sub-specialities are almost on the same competitive field as Dermatology, Plastics or Ophthalmology? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 No near as competative as optho, plastics or derm. Almost everyone seems to get what they want, if they are flexible and willing to put in some effort to make themselves appealing. Cardio and GI were the most competative last I heard. Nephro was middle teir. Things like rhem and endo are least competative. Disclaimer: I am a surgical subspecialty resident, so I don't keep super close track of IM subspecialty stuff. It may have changed around and I'm not yet aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shikimate Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 Judging by CaRMs stats of R3 match Cardio and Gastro seems to be the most competitive, with more 1st choice of disciplines than there are spots. Nephro has surprisingly way less 1st choice than there are spots, but that may be because of the job market. Looks like endo, allergy and geriatrics were not popular, followed by rhem. https://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2012R4_MatchResults/R-4%20-%20table%203%20-%20Discipline%20Choices%20of%20Applicants_en.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted July 3, 2013 Report Share Posted July 3, 2013 I'm not sure it's that surprising that nephro doesn't get as many applicants. It does pay pretty well, but between the putative job market and the generally inscrutableness of the kidney it makes sense. I expect that things like endo and rheum will get a bit more competitive in the future as they tend to "lifestyle" subspecialties. Resp* and heme are pretty tight too as it stands, and they're also popular. *I have no idea why. I guess people like doing diagnostic bronchs or something, but to paraphrase Dr Hibbert, we can't fix your lungs, but we can tell you exactly how damaged they are (from ILD). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchEnemy Posted July 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 *I have no idea why. I guess people like doing diagnostic bronchs or something, but to paraphrase Dr Hibbert, we can't fix your lungs, but we can tell you exactly how damaged they are (from ILD). Hah I had a good laugh there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchEnemy Posted July 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 Thanks everyone for your replies! One more question: Besides doing an elective/rotation in a particular specialty, how would one go about knowing about the lifestyle and financial remunerations that is characteristic of that specialty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted July 4, 2013 Report Share Posted July 4, 2013 Thanks everyone for your replies! One more question: Besides doing an elective/rotation in a particular specialty, how would one go about knowing about the lifestyle and financial remunerations that is characteristic of that specialty? Ask staff and residents that you meet. And on here. CMA put out a list of avg. salary per specialty per province last year as part of a transition to practice booklet for residents. I have a paper copy. I don't know if there is an electronic one available. Also, the banks have lists of projected income based on specialty and province (my banker toldme when I was negotiating some banking stuff). You could ask your LOC institution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lalab Posted July 7, 2013 Report Share Posted July 7, 2013 Is the R4 match similar to the CARMS match in year 4 of med school? IE does one fly around to different program sites? Or is it more likely that one will be matched to the same hospital/program site as their internal medicine training PGY1-3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted July 8, 2013 Report Share Posted July 8, 2013 Is the R4 match similar to the CARMS match in year 4 of med school? IE does one fly around to different program sites? Or is it more likely that one will be matched to the same hospital/program site as their internal medicine training PGY1-3? Somewhat. Not quite there yet, but from people I've talked to it's common to apply to multiple programs but be potentially a lot more selective in interviews and rankings (and, generally speaking, you can be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick1234 Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 what is rhem, nephrology not as competitive? will it be hard or find jobs in those subspecialties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigM Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 what is rhem, nephrology not as competitive? will it be hard or find jobs in those subspecialties? Nephro is quite competitive. Rheum isn't and I can't say exactly why. It may be because it is almost all outpatient work and individuals who have in internal medicine have trained for years on many inpatient services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Med0123 Posted August 8, 2013 Report Share Posted August 8, 2013 It appears that the most competitive specialty this year was.... GENERAL INTERNAL MEDICINE!!! Followed by critical care medicine. In comparison cards GI and nephro are less competitive if you look at the ratio First Choice Discipline to Quota Offered (Regular) https://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2013R4_MatchResults/R-4%20-%20table%203%20-%20Discipline%20Choices%20of%20Applicants_en.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 It appears that the most competitive specialty this year was.... GENERAL INTERNAL MEDICINE!!! Followed by critical care medicine. In comparison cards GI and nephro are less competitive if you look at the ratio First Choice Discipline to Quota Offered (Regular) https://www.carms.ca/pdfs/2013R4_MatchResults/R-4%20-%20table%203%20-%20Discipline%20Choices%20of%20Applicants_en.pdf and a few years ago it was quite non competitive as I understand it Job market fluctuates and people respond accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastriss Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Speaking of GIM, I recently was told that you can get paid up to 15 grand a week to cover CTU, and that DOESN'T include the consult billings.. is this true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studentforever Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 and a few years ago it was quite non competitive as I understand it Job market fluctuates and people respond accordingly. How does one actually find out about what the job market will be 8 to 10 years from when we are actually done? Because residency takes 5 years at least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shikimate Posted August 9, 2013 Report Share Posted August 9, 2013 Speaking of GIM, I recently was told that you can get paid up to 15 grand a week to cover CTU, and that DOESN'T include the consult billings.. is this true? I remember seeing an ad few weeks back for a position that gave around that figure, but I think it was somewhere in Saskatchewan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxime Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 Competitiveness of programs always fluctuate, we often see in the junior years everybody wanting to do one specialty. Cards and GI are generally most competitive (as they have a lot of procedures). GIM is also getting very popular. People normally match into what they want, but everybody knows someone who matched into a second choice program. There are interviews, and you may have to travel a bit. Cardio interviews are normally held in Toronto for schools outside of Quebec. Not sure about GI or GIM. Of course, you have more chances of matching where you trained, as you know the people. However, you can also easily match elsewhere, such as I did (by choice). Maxime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastriss Posted August 10, 2013 Report Share Posted August 10, 2013 I remember seeing an ad few weeks back for a position that gave around that figure, but I think it was somewhere in Saskatchewan... So I ended up crunching some numbers with conservative estimates, and 15k is surprisingly a pretty conservative estimate and you can easily make more per weak. The caveat is that this is made possible at an academic centre where the reality is that your residents are running your team and doing your call for you lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flasses Posted August 11, 2013 Report Share Posted August 11, 2013 If you're thinking of GIM, make sure you would love doing community GIM because that's what the overwhelming majority of GIM attendings actually do. And lots of them tend to burn out (what with rounding on an entire team by themselves on a daily basis, and doing all the IM consults for an entire hospital overnight when on call, decade after decade) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alastriss Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 If you're thinking of GIM, make sure you would love doing community GIM because that's what the overwhelming majority of GIM attendings actually do. And lots of them tend to burn out (what with rounding on an entire team by themselves on a daily basis, and doing all the IM consults for an entire hospital overnight when on call, decade after decade) I think the number I quoted was more for academic GIM where you have your residents do your work for you lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloh Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 I can't imagine taking care of GIM wards without students/residents. The amount of scutwork would drive anyone insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheech10 Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 You'd be surprised how much more of the scut is done by RNs, unit clerks, SW, and OT in community hospitals. It makes an internist far more efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 You'd be surprised how much more of the scut is done by RNs, unit clerks, SW, and OT in community hospitals. It makes an internist far more efficient. and RTs, and .... that list goes on and on It does work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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