Non-Traditional Friendly Canadian Medical Schools

[MedMama]

Hello,

I am a 34 year old planning to apply to medical school this year and I'm wondering which Canadian medical schools have a good reputation for accepting non-traditional applicants? I know that there is technically not supposed to be any age discrimination but I was just wondering if there are some schools that are more open to non-traditional applicants than others.

Thanks in advance.

[JohnGrisham]

Well, depends on a lot of factors - why don't you help us out with a bit more information? Prior degree, career experience, grades, MCAT, life circumstances etc. 

 

[MedMama]

Thanks for the quick response. Here's some more info:

 

• Bachelor of Science in Biochemistry and Minor in Music Technology from McGill University in 2005 (cGPA 3.75).
• 7 years of work experience as a research scientist in the pharmaceutical industry
• Several publications and posters
• Several years of volunteer experience in medical and non-medical environment
• Married mother of two
• Sat MCAT in 2008 and got a 28S so planning to resit in August this year
• Applied to McGill Medical school in 2012 in the Quebec non-traditional category and got an interview then was waitlisted.
• An immigrant to Canada and have been living in Quebec since 2001 (I have my Canadian citizenship now).

Let me know if you need any other info. Thanks!

[JohnGrisham]

Thanks for the quick response. Here's some more info:

 

• Bachelor of Science in Biochemistry and Minor in Music Technology from McGill University in 2005 (cGPA 3.75).
• 7 years of work experience as a research scientist in the pharmaceutical industry
• Several publications and posters
• Several years of volunteer experience in medical and non-medical environment
• Married mother of two
• Sat MCAT in 2008 and got a 28S so planning to resit in August this year
• Applied to McGill Medical school in 2012 in the Quebec non-traditional category and got an interview then was waitlisted.
• An immigrant to Canada and have been living in Quebec since 2001 (I have my Canadian citizenship now).

Let me know if you need any other info. Thanks!

Ah quebec, I don't have much knowledge of what goes on there to be honest. 

 

Your GPA is definitely strong enough for many schools (not all), and seems like you have some well rounded experience. The fact that you interviewed at McGill before is a good sign, so obviously reapply there with your improved application. Though no idea how their policies may have changed since 2012.

 

I suppose the first question is, where and how far are you willing to relocate?

 

Second, would be to find out if there are schools that will not consider your old coursework.

 

Third, prepare well and hard for the MCAT to get a high a score as possible. Opens more options.

 

I'm sure others will have more specific advice for you, once you ponder some more

[Birdy]

What's the breakdown of your MCAT?

 

McMaster is a very non-trad friendly school. The pre-interview evaluation is 1/3 each GPA, MCAT VR/CARS, and CASPER (basically an online sort-of interview all applicants take) and afterwards is 70% interview, 15% each GPA and MCAT VR/CARS.

 

If you got an interview at McGill before, definitely reapply. Getting waitlisted means you had what they want and you might have better luck depending on the next applicant pool. 

 

I would think Queen's, Western, Dalhousie, Calgary, McGill and McMaster would all be good options for you to apply to depending on your next MCAT score. NOSM too if you have much rural living experience. 

 

I point all med moms towards http://www.mothersinmedicine.com/ Fantastic blog of stories and advice from moms who are doctors, med students, and residents.

 

Good luck with it all.

[indefatigable]

.

[MedMama]

Thanks everyone for your input. This is very helpful for me. I love the mothersinmedicine blog. I read it often.

 

The breakdown of my MCAT was BS:10; PS:10 and VR: 8. I know that McMaster only looks at VR so I am working particularly hard on that section for the next time I sit the MCAT in August.

 

McGill did actually change their requirements recently for the non-traditional category so unfortunately my prereqs are considered out of date. They used to evaluate out-of-date prereqs on a case-by-case basis based on work experience but now you have to have at least 4 "fresh" prereqs done within the last 8 years. I'll have to make a decision on what to do about that (either refresh prereqs or apply with what I have).

 

For NOSM, does growing up in a developing country count as "rural experience"? I lived in the capital but had regular visits to the town where my dad grew up, which was very rural (no running water, electricity etc.).

[tameimpala]

Are you certain about the NTP requirements at McGill? Just read this on the website:

 

NTP applicants may apply for admission with partially complete and/or out-of-date (more than eight years from the date of application) basic science prerequisites. 'Partially complete' means a minimum of 4 of the required prerequisite courses. Any or all of these 4 could be out of date).

[amoserlie]

Did you apply to McGill this year? I interviewed in the non-trad category this year and at least 2/12 (I didn't speak to everyone in the group, just the ones at my table) had interviewed before. One candidate said they had been wailisted 2 years ago. The interesting thing was that of the student ambassadors, most were non-trad and almost all had gotten in on their second try. If they waitlisted you, that means they liked you, so you should definitely reapply. Did you ask them which courses you would have to retake in order to apply to Quebec IP? It might not be as bad as you think. Given your work experience you might get an exemption from some courses.

 

If your French is good, Laval has a "marché du travail" category. I interviewed in this category this year, too.

 

McMaster looks favourably on folks like us, I think. The only MCAT score that matters is the VR. It might be tough to get an interview though, since 90% of spots are allocated to residents of Ontario.

[amoserlie]

Woah. A lot of posts happened while I was posting mine. Sorry for being redundant.

[MedMama]

Applecrisp, it's possible I am misunderstanding the paragraph you quoted from the McGill website. My understanding is that there are 8 prereqs and out of these 8, four of them can be out-of-date. I believe the other 4 have to be taken within the last 8 years. I'll double-check though just to make sure.

 

Amoserlie, thanks for the encouragement! I didn't know about that Laval category. My French is not bad so I'll check it out! The last time I applied to McGill was in 2012. Were you accepted to McGill or Laval?

 

Thanks again.

[tameimpala]

I understand it as having at least 4 prereqs done, regardless if they are out of date or not. Website also states that NTP do one qualifying year if admitted so students probably complete the missing/out of date courses at that point.

 

Anyhow absolutely clarify with the admissions department to inquire! Best of luck

[MedMama]

I understand it as having at least 4 prereqs done, regardless if they are out of date or not. Website also states that NTP do one qualifying year if admitted so students probably complete the missing/out of date courses at that point.

 

Anyhow absolutely clarify with the admissions department to inquire! Best of luck

 

Will do. Thank you applecrisp

[amoserlie]

Sadly, no. Waitlisted at McGill. I wish they had more than three spots. That's why I'm taking courses so I can apply to the IP category this Fall.

 

Laval asked me to take orgo in the Winter session since I had never taken it before, but accepted all of my "expired" prerequisite courses. All of my courses were taken over 8 years ago and there was no issue in applying to McGill. The four course thing is to make sure that people from a social science background have taken some science courses. If you've taken the courses, even if it's been more than 8 years, no problem. The other new thing is that if accepted, people in the non-trad category have to do a Med-P kind of year. You are allowed to ask for an exemption, though.

[amoserlie]

Again!?!?! I need use my computer instead of this phone. Way... too... slow. ????

[MedMama]

Sadly, no. Waitlisted at McGill. I wish they had more than three spots. That's why I'm taking courses so I can apply to the IP category this Fall.

 

Laval asked me to take orgo in the Winter session since I had never taken it before, but accepted all of my "expired" prerequisite courses. All of my courses were taken over 8 years ago and there was no issue in applying to McGill. The four course thing is to make sure that people from a social science background have taken some science courses. If you've taken the courses, even if it's been more than 8 years, no problem. The other new thing is that if accepted, people in the non-trad category have to do a Med-P kind of year. You are allowed to ask for an exemption, though.

 

Thanks Amoserlie for the clarification. This is great news about the prereqs. I am psyched to try McGill again. I also wish there were more than 3 spots in the non-trad category. Wishing you all the best on your next application. Maybe we'll be classmates!

[indefatigable]

I didn't realize the subtleties of the NTP wrt to prereqs. Thanks for the clarifying posts.

[amoserlie]

Always best to check with adcom if there's any doubt. They have changed NTP requirements a few times already. I wanted to apply to NTP back in 2011, but at that time all of the prerequisites had to have been taken in the last 8 years. The only difference between NTP and IP was less emphasis on GPA and more importance placed on life experiences.

 

All the best to you too, MedMama. I hope we will be classmates. I'm a "med mama" too.

[indefatigable]

Always best to check with adcom if there's any doubt. They have changed NTP requirements a few times already. I wanted to apply to NTP back in 2011, but at that time all of the prerequisites had to have been taken in the last 8 years. The only difference between NTP and IP was less emphasis on GPA and more importance placed on life experiences.

All the best to you too, MedMama. I hope we will be classmates. I'm a "med mama" too.

Someone asked talked to me about this and I double checked - it seems NTP can't be IP applicants - but I guess this is after the change.

[amoserlie]

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. As long as I have the prerequisite courses, I was told I could apply to Quebec IP. This past cycle I only applied to the NTP because I was missing two courses.

[tameimpala]

I had asked about NTP vs IP when I applied because I'm a non-traditional applicant as well but was told that if you meet the requirements for IP (all prereqs done/full-time course load, etc.), you can only apply in the IP cohort

[indefatigable]

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. As long as I have the prerequisite courses, I was told I could apply to Quebec IP. This past cycle I only applied to the NTP because I was missing two courses.

Yes makes sense. NTP is like IP except

have missing or older prereqs -otherwise IP. My lack of clarity.

[not my real name]

One thing to keep in mind is that the NTP category has advantages (time lapsing of your pre-reqs) and disadvantages (very few spots).

 

This year there were 111 applicants for 12 interviews (10% chance to be interviewed), for, I believe, 3 spots (2.5% chance overall to be accepted). If you compare that to the university pathway, the odds are about 12%. The average interviewed GPA in the university category was 3.82, so your 3.75 is not terribly far away. If I were in your shoes, I would consider whether it would be worthwhile to re-take your prereqs while still applying next week year as NTP. If your family situation is such that you can do that in 1.5 years, you'd be able to apply in the normal stream, which would mean WAY more spots. It seems that the NTP category has been seeing increasing applicants each year, so my guess is that it is unlikely to become less competitive. The fact that you received an interview is great, however. The non-academic side of your application must be fairly good.

 

That said, that's a lot of work for a chance at acceptance! I went that route myself (i.e. going back to school), as I had missing pre-reqs, but my first degree GPA was not nearly as competitive as yours.

[amoserlie]

Phew. I got worried there for a minute. I thought you were saying that since I had applied to NTP, I couldn't now apply to IP.

 

If you are considering some of the French schools, check with them about their course requirements and don't leave it too late. It took weeks for someone to evaluate my transcript. The issue I had this year was that McGill would let me take any orgo class, so long as it was finished by Jan. 15th, but Laval insisted I take their course that was only offered in the Winter session. I couldn't get either party to budge. At least you did a degree in something bio, so the scaling to Côte R should be high.

[MedMama]

One thing to keep in mind is that the NTP category has advantages (time lapsing of your pre-reqs) and disadvantages (very few spots).

 

This year there were 111 applicants for 12 interviews (10% chance to be interviewed), for, I believe, 3 spots (2.5% chance overall to be accepted). If you compare that to the university pathway, the odds are about 12%. The average interviewed GPA in the university category was 3.82, so your 3.75 is not terribly far away. If I were in your shoes, I would consider whether it would be worthwhile to re-take your prereqs while still applying next week year as NTP. If your family situation is such that you can do that in 1.5 years, you'd be able to apply in the normal stream, which would mean WAY more spots. It seems that the NTP category has been seeing increasing applicants each year, so my guess is that it is unlikely to become less competitive. The fact that you received an interview is great, however. The non-academic side of your application must be fairly good.

 

That said, that's a lot of work for a chance at acceptance! I went that route myself (i.e. going back to school), as I had missing pre-reqs, but my first degree GPA was not nearly as competitive as yours.

 

Thanks for this very useful info!