coffeeplz Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Just curious to know what makes Mac someone's top choice. It seems like such a unique school that I am sure there are lots of reasons someone would go to Mac even if they got in elsewhere. Current students can also chime in with why they chose (or why someone else should)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeministKilljoy Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 As a non-traditional, older applicant, I am drawn to McMaster's unique curriculum. I have extensive health care experience and I have demonstrated quite a bit of initiative in my career, so the PBL style is appealing to me at this point in my life. My undergraduate degree had a more traditional teaching style, and I was in class Mon-Fri 8-4, and it was draining and I felt like a prisoner. Also, Hamilton is a bit more central, so it's convenient for my spouse who is currently looking for work throughout Canada. And we have lived in Hamilton in the past and enjoy Hamilton and it's quirky neighbourhoods. We have good friends in Toronto, family and friends in eastern Ontario and Western Quebec, so living in Hamilton allows us to be closer to our loved ones. McMaster is my top choice, but I just did the MCAT today and I choked in the CARS section, so we'll see how things unfold in the coming weeks. Derp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatpremeds Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Because University Ave. in Toronto. Jokes aside, with the Toronto curriculum changing next year you'll really get a similar experience in any med school across Ontario. I chose Toronto because of the opportunities the hospitals here provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeministKilljoy Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 Eh, Toronto. Take it or leave it. Sunnybrook and SickKids are dumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daftypatty Posted April 1, 2016 Report Share Posted April 1, 2016 I wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_ _ Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 I wouldn't. Yep. I feel like Mac is so different that it's either everything you want, or everything you don't want. I'm definitely in the latter group as well, because I have no idea what specialty I want to do, and the 3 years combined with the electives before core rotations setup is not exactly ideal compared to other schools. Being straight out of undergrad, time isn't an issue for me. I also prefer a more 'family' feel to the programs, especially being far from my own home, which isn't the impression I've gotten from the large class+only small group sessions However, i absolutely see the appeal for non-trad applicants, or those who have a strong idea of what they want to pursue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
321izme Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Almost finished my time at Mac Med. Loved it there. The pre-clerkship curriculum is great with lots of flexibility that does not burden you with a trillion details that you'll like never remember or use. It's great at teaching you the essential knowledge (i.e. basic principles and common/slightly less common diseases). There's more than enough free time to enjoy life, do research if you want and learn those super in depth stuff if you think it will help with your specific career goals. Plenty of time to shadow/participate in specialties before clerkship begins to help you figure out which specialty best fits you. Clerkship is the approx. same length as other schools and in some cases provides more elective time than other schools which really helped with residency matching. Physician staff are great, willing to teach and get you to participate and will offer research supervision if you're interested in that. There are rumours that McMaster clerks do not perform as well on electives as others - I have not found this to be true personally or after talking to other students in the program. I have not met any staff at other schools who believe this either and those that do believe it must be the significant minority. My class has a match rate of >98% success with many matching to competitive specialties. Yes, there have been poor matches in the past, as is true with all medical schools. Hamilton is a good location if you have friends/family in the GTA. Plenty of good restaurants and decent entertainment. It's close to Toronto (e.g. 45 minute gobus ride) if you need to go there for family or fun. You can also easily get to Hamilton from Burlington, Oakville, Stoney creek and Ancaster if you wish to live there. If you are fortunate enough to get into >1 school, I'd honestly suggest picking by preferred location in terms of fun/family/friends and whether you're interested in 3 vs 4 yr program. The rest isn't truly a big deal as your performance in clerkship, which is largely driven by your own motivation to learn rather than anything the med school can provide, will help the most with residency matching, a major goal of attending med school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
321izme Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Eh, Toronto. Take it or leave it. Sunnybrook and SickKids are dumps. wut? Yep. I feel like Mac is so different that it's either everything you want, or everything you don't want. I'm definitely in the latter group as well, because I have no idea what specialty I want to do, and the 3 years combined with the electives before core rotations setup is not exactly ideal compared to other schools. Being straight out of undergrad, time isn't an issue for me. I also prefer a more 'family' feel to the programs, especially being far from my own home, which isn't the impression I've gotten from the large class+only small group sessions However, i absolutely see the appeal for non-trad applicants, or those who have a strong idea of what they want to pursue. Electives-before-core setup was not bad at all for me - you do have to do extra reading before those electives but that would be true even if you had done your core already so I did not think it made a significant difference (i.e. I got 2 out of my 4 strong letters from electives done before my core rotation in the specialty I was interested in). Mac in some cases lets you do more electives before CaRMS than other schools which is great for ref letters and getting yourself known to a greater number of programs. Overall, I wouldn't put too much value on the school's organization of clerkship. I'd probably say there's more value in thinking about whether you want to sacrifice your summers at Mac! Once you find a group of friends, any program is fun I'm sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntiSWOMEN Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Mac in some cases lets you do more electives before CaRMS than other schools which is great for ref letters and getting yourself known to a greater number of programs. Can you elaborate on this? And would you say that people in your class had a difficult time figuring out what they want to do within a reasonable amount of time if they didn't have an idea going in? With respect to class camaraderie would you say you were able to get to know a lot of your classmates? The lack of time to decide, schooling through the summer and to an extent, PBL, are huge deterrents for me and I'm having a hard time convincing myself that saving a year would be worth it in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
321izme Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Can you elaborate on this? And would you say that people in your class had a difficult time figuring out what they want to do within a reasonable amount of time if they didn't have an idea going in? With respect to class camaraderie would you say you were able to get to know a lot of your classmates? The lack of time to decide, schooling through the summer and to an extent, PBL, are huge deterrents for me and I'm having a hard time convincing myself that saving a year would be worth it in the long run. In order to book electives, you often need to apply 6-9 months in advance. That means you will be booking electives very early on in clerkship, even in a program where you do cores before electives. Therefore, you do need some idea of what specialty you're interested in regardless of whether cores are before electives or not. However, I will say that at McMaster, you need to book electives 1-3 months earlier than students in those programs with cores before electives. Basically, the perception that McMaster is "too fast" thereby preventing you from exploring your options or the perception that Mac does not prepare you for clerkship, electives and residency matching - perceptions that I too shared to an extent before starting medical school at McMaster - are false. I'd say most people narrowed it down to 1-2 specialties and either applied to both or eventually narrowed it down further to 1, after doing electives/cores. Great class camaraderie with regular events/parties/sports etc. Love it here! Unfortunately I cannot help balance the pros/cons for you, only provide you with them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anythingradiation Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 I'm also a mac 2016 and I have pretty much the exact opposite opinions. Clerkship is the approx. same length as other schools and in some cases provides more elective time than other schools which really helped with residency matching. The main difference being we start clerkship later (end of November) and finish our cores significantly later (end of march before grad). I disagree with the more elective time. 3 out of 8 tracks give 14 weeks (if you forgo vacation). The other 5 tracks give 12. Other schools give 12 to 14. Our electives are scattered throughout clerkship and most people start clerkship on electives (which is a terrible thing). we also have to set up the bulk of our electives before even starting clerkship. There are rumours that McMaster clerks do not perform as well on electives as others - I have not found this to be true personally or after talking to other students in the program. I have not met any staff at other schools who believe this either and those that do believe it must be the significant minority. I completely disagree with this statement. Almost all other schools have their elective time after completing all their core clerkship rotations. At Mac, most people start on elective. If you think that someone who has been in clerkship for a year is not going to be advantaged over someone who is starting clerkship or has completed only a single unrelated core rotation, I would question that judgment. Mac is significantly talked about as being weak by staff and residents. I have heard this multiple times. We had a good match this year and I got my first choice so I'm hardly one to complain but I honestly think that McMaster has the worst clerkship setup out of any med school (in ontario for sure). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffeeplz Posted April 2, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 Hmm.. This is all really interesting. I'm asking because I got into McGill but am not someone who is too concerned with "prestige" so in no way is that enough for me to make the decision. I feel like it is easier to find people excited to go to McGill online, mostly because of the prestige factor, but McMaster feels like it gets a little underplayed. McMaster and McGill are very different schools with very different programs. I love that I'd be done in 3 years at Mac (I'm 28), my family is within an hour or so of McMaster and it's been a long time since I've lived near them, and in general think that Mac's system of self-directed learning and overall approach is awesome. I'm also slightly worried about what can be perceived as a lack of rigorousness, though there seems to be differing opinions about that haha. And yeah, the residency problems and elective structure at Mac worries my slightly. I'm interested in doing community-level health, for what it is worth. Thanks for all the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded frog Posted April 2, 2016 Report Share Posted April 2, 2016 I'm also a mac 2016 and I have pretty much the exact opposite opinions. Someone got red stream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anythingradiation Posted April 3, 2016 Report Share Posted April 3, 2016 Hmm.. This is all really interesting. I'm asking because I got into McGill but am not someone who is too concerned with "prestige" so in no way is that enough for me to make the decision. I feel like it is easier to find people excited to go to McGill online, mostly because of the prestige factor, but McMaster feels like it gets a little underplayed. McMaster and McGill are very different schools with very different programs. I love that I'd be done in 3 years at Mac (I'm 28), my family is within an hour or so of McMaster and it's been a long time since I've lived near them, and in general think that Mac's system of self-directed learning and overall approach is awesome. I'm also slightly worried about what can be perceived as a lack of rigorousness, though there seems to be differing opinions about that haha. And yeah, the residency problems and elective structure at Mac worries my slightly. I'm interested in doing community-level health, for what it is worth. Thanks for all the input! It sounds as though you might be a good fit at McMaster. People do enjoy it and learn well from PBL, but not everyone does. I will say in regards to rigorousness, its really a intrinsic standard that YOU have to hold yourself too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGG Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Hi, I'm a first year med student at mac and I must have heard these rumors dozens of times by friends looking to apply. 1) "Belief that you won't get your preferred speciality" - I'd like to start off by saying that while it's true that McMaster is a unique medical school with a unique teaching style, it does as good a job of getting people into their preferred residency as any other school in Canada and this year boasted a >98% match rate - so if your concern is going into a particular speciality, I've spoken to mac grads that have matched into pretty much everything, including all of the 'competitive' ones. 2) "Not enough time to be competitive" - Talking to residents in different specialities, the number one thing that seems to determine how you match is your performance on clerkship electives, more specifically if they like to work with you and wouldn't mind doing so for 2-7 years. That being said, there are plenty of opportunities to do research (Mac is one of the country's top producers of medical research) and it is very easy to get involved and continue research throughout pre-clerkship to boost the cv. 3) "No lectures, no tests" - Believe it or not we do get lectures on Monday and Friday for a half day that supplement and confirm the important concepts from tutorial. My perception is that between lectures and tutorial discussions you learn all the content you need to. In terms of tests, there are tests once a month - people may choose not to study for them - but my perception is that a large portion of the class does study, these "CAEs" are marked by your tutor and are taken into consideration in your final evaluation for the section. This goes along with a PPI that happens every couple months that puts you on a 'scale' with the rest of the class and is used to encourage you to either learn/study the concepts more or verify that you are on par with your class (your the only person that sees this unless you get red zoned which someone else can elaborate on) 4) "Anatomy sucks" - while its true that anatomy is not the strength of the program, our year it changed drastically and it is now once a week (for the most part) throughout the preclerkship. They now provide you with instruction booklets (along with access to recorded lectures on mac anatomy) that if you choose to, are fairly good teaching aids. That being said, it's up to the individual student to learn anatomy, much like in other schools students are expected to prep before the session. This year, anatomy is taught lecture style in the anatomy lab for about 1.5 - 2 hours each week. It's not perfect, but from what Ive heard its improved significantly from previous years. 5) "Clerkship structure" - Believe it or not mac has studied whether your clerkship stream influences your chances of matching to your preferred speciality. Dr. Whyte informed us of this during our last town hall meeting and they found that it had no impact whatsoever - as I have not started clerkship I have no comment and other students may perceive this differently. But the fact of the matter is the vast majority of students will get the speciality they want from mac. 6) "Mac is a family med school" - Last year, 40% of the class went into family med (refer to the carms data for more info) but this number changes from year to year and is in line with all the other Ontario schools. Because Hamilton services a large population, students have access to pretty much any speciality they wish and have the opportunity to shadow these docs in their first year. Are large chunk of my class is interested in surgery - it really is just a matter of year to year variation. 7) "I cant decide what I want to be in 3 years" - While you do have 1 less year to decide at mac, my perception from talking to people at other 4 year programs is that many of them take longer to decide on a speciality because they are given more time to do so. Mac gives you more flexibility than other schools to go out and shadow as many specialities as you want in first year. Most students take advantage of this and have a sense of what they want to do by the time clerkship roles around. There is also the opportunity to take an Enrichment year (which I believe is free) where you get another full year of your clerkship to complete electives and research in a particular speciality if you are undecided or want to boost the cv for carms - this is actually a significant advantage but many students/applicants are unaware of it 8) "Hamilton sucks" - While Hamilton is no toronto (Im from Toronto - but I have lived here through my undergrad and now into med school) the city is changing drastically as more torontoians move here to take advantage of the comparatively low housing prices and the city has/is on track to continue to improve significantly over the next 10 years. I have family in real-estate and Hamilton is considered to be the one of the top locations in southern ontario to invest at this time. Since I've been here, the downtown core has cleaned up significantly and while there are still good neighbourhoods and bad neighbourhoods I've found that the city tends to grow on people and it has developed a strong eating, art and cultural (hipster) scene. 9) "Internationally recognized?" - Regardless of how you feel about the mac med it is internationally recognized and a major research institution when it comes to healthcare. It consistently ranks 2nd in Ontario and within the top 3 or 4 in the country on (the THE clinical rankings and QS med rankings). While these don't mean anything and really shouldn't influence your decision on where to go, the perception that mac med isn't reputable is false. Sorry for any grammatical mistakes but I had to rush through it. Just wanted to add that I was initially hesitant about going to mac given the 'rumors' on this site in particular, but trust me my perception is that at the end of the day the school does the job and can get you into any speciality you want. I've enjoyed my time here and to be honest it really doesn't matter where you go to med school in Canada. Hope this helps at least one person lol. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMislove Posted April 4, 2016 Report Share Posted April 4, 2016 Everyone here deciding where they wanna go, and I'm here like "Bruh, I still need a better CARS score" xD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileya Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Everyone here deciding where they wanna go, and I'm here like "Bruh, I still need a better CARS score" xD. I'm more like just wish I had an interview here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daftypatty Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Lol why would the 10+ year projection of hamiltons changing economy matter for med students that are looking to get in this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thethirdlaw Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Mac is one of those everything you value or nothing you'd enjoy programs. Where I couldn't see myself in a 3 year PBL heavy, self-directed program, others love this autonomy. I need structure, I need summers, I need time. But if you need autonomy, are older and want to recover a year, and love small group learning, the opposite is true. In the end, the quality of education you get is equivalent. Sure, there are murmurs of unpreparedness with 3-year programs, but after 12 months of residency everyone is on an equal playing field. I got into McGill as well (re: coffeeplz), and for me it would be an easy choice given what I value in a curriculum and lifestyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thethirdlaw Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Lol why would the 10+ year projection of hamiltons changing economy matter for med students that are looking to get in this year Because 10 year projections are products of today's investments. While the full brunt of growth won't be felt in a decade, you'll grow along with the city over 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Organomegaly Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 Mac is one of those everything you value or nothing you'd enjoy programs. Where I couldn't see myself in a 3 year PBL heavy, self-directed program, others love this autonomy. I need structure, I need summers, I need time. But if you need autonomy, are older and want to recover a year, and love small group learning, the opposite is true. In the end, the quality of education you get is equivalent. Sure, there are murmurs of unpreparedness with 3-year programs, but after 12 months of residency everyone is on an equal playing field. I got into McGill as well (re: coffeeplz), and for me it would be an easy choice given what I value in a curriculum and lifestyle. yeah and i mean when you become a clerk the experience is the same more or less for everyone, and mac's clerkship is about the same length as other clerkship programs (to my knowledge - someone else can chime in here) - its our pre clerkship that's condensed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anythingradiation Posted April 5, 2016 Report Share Posted April 5, 2016 yeah and i mean when you become a clerk the experience is the same more or less for everyone, and mac's clerkship is about the same length as other clerkship programs (to my knowledge - someone else can chime in here) - its our pre clerkship that's condensed. Its the same length, starts later and ends later, and the order of the rotations is significantly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edict Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 yeah and i mean when you become a clerk the experience is the same more or less for everyone, and mac's clerkship is about the same length as other clerkship programs (to my knowledge - someone else can chime in here) - its our pre clerkship that's condensed. Is it not slightly condensed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edict Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 One thing to add is that McMaster does have the added option of an enrichment year, which you can take to do a masters or do research and/or clinical electives. Up to 40% of your time can be allocated to clinical electives. Its a great option for those that need more time, those that are hoping to match to a competitive specialty or those hoping to apply to the states for residency. You can take the year at any time point but before CaRMS. The enrichment year option has always been underadvertised but to our years class there was some significant advertisement and some of my classmates have taken the option. If you did take the enrichment year it would absolutely alleviate a lot of problems many people have with Mac in terms of lack of time to decide specialty. The extra 40% clinical electives would be an insane amount of elective time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess85 Posted April 6, 2016 Report Share Posted April 6, 2016 One thing to add is that McMaster does have the added option of an enrichment year, which you can take to do a masters or do research and/or clinical electives. Up to 40% of your time can be allocated to clinical electives. Its a great option for those that need more time, those that are hoping to match to a competitive specialty or those hoping to apply to the states for residency. You can take the year at any time point but before CaRMS. The enrichment year option has always been underadvertised but to our years class there was some significant advertisement and some of my classmates have taken the option. If you did take the enrichment year it would absolutely alleviate a lot of problems many people have with Mac in terms of lack of time to decide specialty. The extra 40% clinical electives would be an insane amount of elective time. I really enjoyed my interview at Mac! So far I'm leaning towards the Niagara campus. Anyone else feel the same way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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