Quarms

[NothingButNetters]

Honestly, the interpretation of 'bold move' as a microaggression is in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps OP thinks it's a bold move simply because being 100% of either gender may raise eyebrows, if not backlash.

 

Using the same presumptive leap you did, I could just as easily take your smiley face in the above quote as a microaggression towards men, with the following interpretation: your smiley face is a gleeful celebration that men are now in the minority in the upcoming ranks of medical professionals. But I won't because a) I'm hoping that you're reasonable and I'm giving an internet stranger the benefit of the doubt.

 

I hope you don't think "microaggression towards men" is a thing... Much like I hope you don't think "reverse racism" is a thing...

[InstantRamen]

Honestly, the interpretation of 'bold move' as a microaggression is in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps OP thinks it's a bold move simply because being 100% of either gender may raise eyebrows, if not backlash.

 

Using the same presumptive leap you did, I could just as easily take your smiley face in the above quote as a microaggression towards men, with the following interpretation: your smiley face is a gleeful celebration that men are now in the minority in the upcoming ranks of medical professionals. But I won't because a) I'm hoping that you're reasonable and I'm giving an internet stranger the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

NeuroticDoodle was simply putting a smiley face because there are more women being represented in medicine... Not because men are a minority... Most definitely not a micro aggression... 

[sdj78we9jtf2o3mgfvj298j]

. 

[FeministKilljoy]

Honestly, the interpretation of 'bold move' as a microaggression is in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps OP thinks it's a bold move simply because being 100% of either gender may raise eyebrows, if not backlash. (raised eyebrows in either a positive or negative way, depending who's looking)

 

Using the same presumptive leap you did, I could just as easily take your smiley face in the above quote as a microaggression towards men, with the following interpretation: your smiley face is a gleeful celebration that men are now in the minority in the upcoming ranks of medical professionals. But I won't because a) I'm hoping that you're reasonable and I'm giving an internet stranger the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

Oh please. Don't mistake my celebration of equal representation in Medicine as misandry.

[pathoma]

NeuroticDoodle was simply putting a smiley face because there are more women being represented in medicine... Not because men are a minority... Most definitely not a micro aggression... 

I'm illustrating the point that colloquialisms are subject to interpretation. That's not the specific view I'm arguing. My point is interpreting "bold move" as a microaggression isn't as clear cut as other microaggressions. And it comes off as a little combative.

 

I don't think that having 100% women in the QuARMS group is a bad thing. Depending on how many applicants there were, the gender split, the quality of applicants, anything we say about is pure speculation.

[pathoma]

I hope you don't think "microaggression towards men" is a thing... Much like I hope you don't think "reverse racism" is a thing...

Yikes. Absolutely not. What that sentence meant is "microaggression" (in that particular hypothetical interpretation) aimed at men. Not "microaggression towards men" as a concept.

 

You are selectively interpreting my sentence.

[FeministKilljoy]

I'm illustrating the point that colloquialisms are subject to interpretation. That's not the specific view I'm arguing. My point is interpreting "bold move" as a microaggression isn't as clear cut as other microaggressions. And it comes off as a little combative.

 

I don't think that having 100% women in the QuARMS group is a bad thing. Depending on how many applicants there were, the gender split, the quality of applicants, anything we say about is pure speculation.

 

 

Heh. Combative.

 

Next time I'll try to be sugar and spice and everything nice. 

[pathoma]

Oh please. Don't mistake my celebration of equal representation in Medicine as misandry.

Ok, so first of all, I'm going to make some things clear.

 

1) I'm a girl.

 

2) Not accusing you of misandry.

 

It's a little disingenuous to believe that there is equal representation in medicine. It's unbalanced at the senior end (more men v. women in the older generations) and also unbalanced in the up and coming generations (typically women > men in medical school classes). You won't hear me complaining, maybe as a woman I have an advantage these days in the med admissions rat race.

 

Now, regarding my comment. You're right, it would seem a little over the top if I interpreted your celebration of 'equal representation' (not really) as misandry. But that's the point I'm trying to make to you. You interpreting "bold move" as a microaggression is equally overzealous.

 

edit: woman, not women

[NothingButNetters]

Out of genuine curiosity, what does microaggression mean? Reading this right now makes me think that you believe that men can't have comments made about them because of their gender, but I'd like to think that you don't really believe that.

I really am not a fan of the connotation throwing out the word "microaggression" in conversations has received over the last couple of years and merits eye rolls, but it's more about privilege (another entire topic that can be explored) and has to do with making comments from a vantage of privilege in society (white, cis, male, straight, etc.). A comment made from a place of privilege that discredits or oppresses the less privileged group is often what credits a "microaggression" because it may be subtle or unintentional, but reinforces marginalization. Thus, comments made by another gender against males isn't a "microaggression", because historically males have that privilege women don't (even those who are trans*). Thus even putting together the string of words like "microaggression towards men" is the same line as "reverse racism". As a male myself and a person of colour and gay, it is important to recognize which privileges you have and do not, but it's difficult to sit back and not comment when the same systems and stereotypes and dogmas of things are perpetuated because people don't understand their privilege. There are many resources on the web to understand privilege and what privileges you have in society.

[Fresh fry]

 

Seriously though, always good discussion but lets keep it civil and give everyone the benefit of the doubt

[FeministKilljoy]

I really am not a fan of the connotation throwing out the word "microaggression" in conversations has received over the last couple of years and merits eye rolls, but it's more about privilege (another entire topic that can be explored) and has to do with making comments from a vantage of privilege in society (white, cis, male, straight, etc.). A comment made from a place of privilege that discredits or oppresses the less privileged group is often what credits a "microaggression" because it may be subtle or unintentional, but reinforces marginalization. Thus, comments made by another gender against males isn't a "microaggression", because historically males have that privilege women don't (even those who are trans*). Thus even putting together the string of words like "microaggression towards men" is the same line as "reverse racism". As a male myself and a person of colour and gay, it is important to recognize which privileges you have and do not, but it's difficult to sit back and not comment when the same systems and stereotypes and dogmas of things are perpetuated because people don't understand their privilege. There are many resources on the web to understand privilege and what privileges you have in society.

 

 

 

Buzzfeed ftw!

[pathoma]

I really am not a fan of the connotation throwing out the word "microaggression" in conversations has received over the last couple of years and merits eye rolls, but it's more about privilege (another entire topic that can be explored) and has to do with making comments from a vantage of privilege in society (white, cis, male, straight, etc.). A comment made from a place of privilege that discredits or oppresses the less privileged group is often what credits a "microaggression" because it may be subtle or unintentional, but reinforces marginalization. Thus, comments made by another gender against males isn't a "microaggression", because historically males have that privilege women don't (even those who are trans*). Thus even putting together the string of words like "microaggression towards men" is the same line as "reverse racism". As a male myself and a person of colour and gay, it is important to recognize which privileges you have and do not, but it's difficult to sit back and not comment when the same systems and stereotypes and dogmas of things are perpetuated because people don't understand their privilege. There are many resources on the web to understand privilege and what privileges you have in society.

Ok point taken.

 

I actually don't really use the term microaggression, so I may not know the highly technical working definition.

 

I should have just replaced "microaggression towards men" in that (again, hypothetical) example with "subtle jab at men".

 

 

 

 

[FeministKilljoy]

Ok, so first of all, I'm going to make some things clear.

 

1) I'm a girl.

 

2) Not accusing you of misandry.

 

It's a little disingenuous to believe that there is equal representation in medicine. It's unbalanced at the senior end (more men v. women in the older generations) and also unbalanced in the up and coming generations (typically women > men in medical school classes). You won't hear me complaining, maybe as a woman I have an advantage these days in the med admissions rat race.

 

Now, regarding my comment. You're right, it would seem a little over the top if I interpreted your celebration of 'equal representation' (not really) as misandry. But that's the point I'm trying to make to you. You interpreting "bold move" as a microaggression is equally overzealous.

 

edit: woman, not women

 

But is it overzealous?

 

Aren't you tired of feeling like a second class citizen in our society?

[FeministKilljoy]

Ok point taken.

 

I actually don't really use the term microaggression, so I may not know the highly technical working definition.

 

I should have just replaced "microaggression towards men" in that (again, hypothetical) example with "subtle jab at men".

 

 

 

 

 

 

So wait, you're criticizing something that you don't really understand?

[medway12]

Heard from my friend at Queen's: they just told students that the most recent group of accepted Quarms students are all females. Bold move lol, thoughts?

It's not really a "move" in that they probably didn't make any moves to ensure it was all females. The most qualified candidates happened to be female.

[HipHopDrop]

It's not really a "move" in that they probably didn't make any moves to ensure it was all females. The most qualified candidates happened to be female.

 

A direct move? No. Did they take the best applicants. Yes. But when all applicants are represented by a single gender (gender isn't binary etc etc sorry I'm working with limited binary data) that suggests something about the process this year more strongly selected for females. This could just be an anomaly, but it would be interesting to see what aspects caused this-- the application, the interview process, etc. I'm sure they will be wonderful students, but it doesn't help the optics given that QuARMs is already viewed as being bad at increasing diversity amongst medical students. One of the largest critiques is that the program selects for higher SES students (there are exceptions but more oft-than-not). 

[pathoma]

But is it overzealous?

 

Aren't you tired of feeling like a second class citizen in our society?

 Is it overzealous? Yes.  Being overzealous at every little thing unfortunately means that you diminish the power of your voice and convictions, making it less likely that you'll be taken seriously when it matters. Maybe that doesn't apply to an anonymous internet forum, but in life, I've learned that to be the case. Child who cried wolf and all that.... If you're going to assume HipHopDrop is being passive-aggressively misogynistic, and subtly reinforcing patriarchal hegemony in an everyday interaction like on this forum, why not probe his/her opinions (with a neutral demeanor, much like a doctor would) and see if that's actually the case? Best case scenario, you correct erroneous beliefs. Worst case you gain a little more insight into subconscious oppression we face from others.

 

 

Am I tired of feeling like a second class citizen in our society?...Yes, for a lot of things. Don't think medicine (specifically medical school & young doctors) is one of those areas. Pick the battles. You will drown potential supporters.

 

Also,

 

So wait, you're criticizing something that you don't really understand?

 

I was being sarcastic, I do understand the term microaggression. But using the term "microaggression"  the way sociologists do often alienates most people; while technically a microaggression can't be directed at someone from a historically privileged background, when you say that, people who aren't well-versed in sociology & gender studies instead hear "people can't be jerks to privileged people". Again you tune people out.

 

 

I at least hope you take pause for thought before running from one battle to the next. When I started doing it, I became a better feminist and a better person. I'm now being a little combative because I'm hoping it sparks you into some self-reflection. Your heart is in the right place.

 

edit: second last sentence. And now I think that our exchange should be continued in PMs if you wish. I feel we are derailing the topic a bit.

 

[FeministKilljoy]

 Is it overzealous? Yes.  Being overzealous at every little thing unfortunately means that you diminish the power of your voice and convictions, making it less likely that you'll be taken seriously when it matters. Maybe that doesn't apply to an anonymous internet forum, but in life, I've learned that to be the case. Child who cried wolf and all that.... If you're going to assume HipHopDrop is being passive-aggressively misogynistic, and subtly reinforcing patriarchal hegemony in an everyday interaction like on this forum, why not probe his/her opinions (with a neutral demeanor, much like a doctor would) and see if that's actually the case? Best case scenario, you correct erroneous beliefs. Worst case you gain a little more insight into subconscious oppression we face from others.

 

 

Am I tired of feeling like a second class citizen in our society?...Yes, for a lot of things. Don't think medicine (specifically medical school & young doctors) is one of those areas. Pick the battles. You will drown potential supporters.

 

Also,

 

 

I was being sarcastic, I do understand the term microaggression. But using the term "microaggression"  the way sociologists do often alienates most people; while technically a microaggression can't be directed at someone from a historically privileged background, when you say that, people who aren't well-versed in sociology & gender studies instead hear "people can't be jerks to privileged people". Again you tune people out.

 

 

I at least hope you take pause for thought before running from one battle to the next. When I started doing it, I became a better feminist and a better person. I'm now being a little combative because I'm hoping it sparks you into some self-reflection. Your heart is in the right place.

edit: second last sentence. And now I think that our exchange should be continued in PMs if you wish. I feel we are derailing the topic a bit.

 

 

http://giphy.com/gifs/jennifer-lawrence-queue-thank-you-FwKBNkAVZ7Iwo

[guy]

How about a hearty congratulations to this year’s QuARMS inductees! Personally, I am awestruck by any 17-year old with a portfolio that can catch the eyes of an Ontario med school. These ten future colleagues (*hopefully*) earned the right to a seat in class and I am sure it was hard won. Good job!

 

 

But there isn’t anyone asking the crucial information needed in order to judge whether merit-based selection was compromised (which I doubt btw): what is the sex distribution of the interviewees? An applicant’s competitiveness depends on the discretion of the respective high school in nominating a recipient for the Chancellor’s scholarship and to suggest a break from meritocracy at this level is to suggest a Canada-wide conspiracy to promote women to MD positions at the expense of men – ludicrous.

 

 

Demographics on the pool of interviewees allows us to determine the likelihood of selecting ten female QuARMS students using Combinations Probability math through this formula:

 

 

= (ways of selecting an all-female QuARMS)/(ways of selecting all possible QuARMS classes)
= (# F invited choosing 10)/ (# total invited choosing 10).

 

 

And even this will only produce a likelihood of selecting this well-deserving class, given certain assumptions of randomness. This includes the assumption that merit was randomly distributed between the two sexes this year, a claim that some here have already (rightfully) disputed. It is certainly possible that the girls just had their act together a little bit better than the boys this year.

 

 

Again, well done!

[Organomegaly]

the sample size is just 10 and as a result you're more likely to see fluctuations like that. its a bit surprising that all 10 of them were the same sex (be it male or female) but not shocking just based on basic statistics. 

[Savac]

The people that performed the best during the interview process were selected

[12345c]

Gender doesn't mean much in medicine - at the end of the day, certain specialties may be more male or female dominated, but genders are represented in almost every medical speciality. I have worked with amazing Physicians of both genders. Truly, patients just want you to treat them well and possess a genuine caring attitude - in my opinion, this is the most important aspect of being a Doctor.

[Riverpeth]

Thank you Pathoma for being an educated voice of reason in this thread. This is the type of feminism which can effectively gain support and should be fostered and supported by all Canadians, as opposed to the condescending inflammatory type which has become "all the rage" as of late..