What Are My Options? (Low Gpa)

[Gwynplaine]

I posted this on SDN, and got some feedback, but wanted to hear more Canadian oriented opinions on this as well. Here is the basic background. 

 

I'm a business school major (finance/international business). Overall GPA is between 3.00 and 3.1 (forgot the exact number). Now, a lot of this is due to not really trying first two years, and mostly cause of 3 courses I got D's in (silly things, not even related to my major, like intro to marketing) that I did not really take seriously or thought much about. Now in my last two years of studying I think my GPA was about 3.7 and first two years about 2.4, and I usually got B+ or above in my main courses. I think without the 3 D's I'd be more in the 3.3-4 range or so. Still the low GPA does not look too good and, seeing high cutoffs for all medical schools (think McMaster was the only one 3.0+, rest were all 3.3+), with the average student getting in with 3.8-9 or so, looks discouraging for me.

I'm in the process of studying for the MCAT, and plan to do it in January, so hoping to get a high score here, but not sure how much of a difference this will even make if I have let's say 520+ but with the low GPA mentioned above.

I also do not have many of the non-MCAT school prereqs (mostly for the QC schools) , such as year of uni level bio, chem, physics, labs etc.

A couple of things I have going for me, of which I'm not sure how impressive/important they are to your application are:

Speak 5 languages fluently (including English, French, Spanish).

Worked as a clerk in a medical office.

Have experience shadowing doctors (not much, about 50hrs but it is not an issue to get more). Here I was lucky through some acquiantces, but I can potentially parlay this part into saying I've shadowed under so and so doctors, and if I get 3 or more names on this lst I assume it could look very impressive for a prospective application in Canada? Not sure though.

Don't have any volunteering experience in Canada (I heard this is very important though, so I might look into it a bit more til next year's application), but I lived in Europe a couple of years and have volunteered there with helping at a hospice.

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Now the main issue to address is obviously my low GPA. But what do you guys think would be the best way to do this? I hear some people telling me to get a masters in science (but I can't really do that in due to my background), start a new bachelor of science and try to maintain as close to 4.0 as possible for the first year or two, and others say to take continuing education courses without a degree to hit my prereqs (but do all unis offer this kind of option?).  

 

I wanted to write the MCAT in Jan. and am confident I can do well, but some advised to wait til after doing prereqs (which I'll need for GPA in any case). The thing is I missed taking classes this fall, and waiting til Jan. to start them and then another year to take the MCAT seems off putting. I don't think the prereqs would help me that much, and feel confident in learning the material on my own. I'm already scoring high in the CARS section just winging it (130/131 in the free TPR and Altius free samples that I did just for this section, and I rarely get a KA CARS question wrong, but these are much easier than those in the practice tests). I'm confident in my ability to learn the sciences well enough on my own, and was always able to test take well when fully dedicating myself to something (which I planned on doing for this). Still it seems the hindrance of my low GPA would get me screened out even if I get a perfect MCAT score.. However I would also not mind applying to U.S. schools on the off chance I would get accepted with a high MCAT, and low GPA since they seem less strict about it. 

 

I am also planning on getting more volunteer hours in, and doctor shadowing as well. 

 

So I wanted to ask you guys is, what would be the best path to take toward getting accepted in Canada? Would I be competitive in any shape if I were to do a year of schooling of basically taking the prereqs while maintaining a high GPA (3.9+) for the whole year? Would they overlook my main weak part (i.e. the first two undergrad years in business school) and just take into account my last year and this new one year course load? Would it have to be more, like 2 or even 3 (a full BSc) before they even start looking at me due to the low GPA of my initial degree?

 

Also how do some schools look at degrees with GPA's inflated due to them being awarded A+'s that are worth 4.3 instead of 4.0? 

[Bambi]

You need a 2nd undergrad degree with a high GPA for starters. Then, you need to be well rounded in terms of CanMEDS competencies showing altruism, leadership, etc., etc. from volunteering, ECs and employment. Stellar candidates are routinely rejected in Canada. You are nowhere near competitive and have a long hike ahead of you if serious.

[VolumeOverload]

I would avoid doing a masters and instead pursue a 2nd degree.  Kin is usually a fairly "easy" BSc to get a high GPA in and can be quite interesting.

The thing with the MCAT is that if you write it in January, score high and then do two years of a second degree, your scores would just be maturing during that time.  I can't remember for certain, but I feel like some schools don't take scores older than 3-4 years.  If that's still the case, you're really only giving yourself two chances to get in.  Alternatively, if you write in January and do poorly, you will have plenty of time to rethink your strategies and subsequently rewrite.  Your best plan of action is to actually get a baseline score in the sciences on one of the practice tests so you have a better sense of whether or not you can realistically learn the sciences without taking the prereqs.

 

EDIT:  During your 2nd degree you'll need to really step up your ECs.  Being a polyglot is impressive but more so if you actually did something with it (for example, volunteering at a centre that assists recent immigrants in adjusting to life in Canada).

[Edict]

A 3.7+ GPA in your best 2 years would make you eligible and competitive for Western and Queens. I don't see the need to do a 2nd degree just yet, but for sure your chances at schools like UofT, Mac and Ottawa are pretty much nil. 

 

If things don't work out you probably do need to do a second undergrad. The only places that would take you internationally are the Caribbean schools, and I don't recommend them at all. 

[MHCClassII]

Do you have US citizenship? That would influence your chances

[Gwynplaine]

Thanks for the feedback guys. What if I were to take just one year of classes and hit the science pre-req portion while maintaing a high GPA? I'm not sure if all unis offer such continuing education options (can you basically pick and choose introductory level courses if you are not enrolled in an accredited degree?) 

 

That way I can say I had a great GPA year if I get 3.9+ in these, and had a decent last year or two in my original degree. Would also allow me time to brush up on my EC's during this time. 

 

I don't really want to do 3 full years for a degree either, and only want to go this route as a last resort. 

 

Also heard of the problems with Caribbean schools, with the high costs and the difficulty in matching, but if I somehow got in the U.S. system in either MD/DO (if I managed to do well on the MCAT), I'd also be happy to go that route. 

 

What about European schools/Australia, are these viable options? I'm not that well documented in this area. 

 

Do you have US citizenship? That would influence your chances

 

No U.S. citizenship, dual Canadian and E.U. country. 

[barc16]

If you want to be a doctor you have to be willing to put the time and effort in. It looks like you're looking for a way to boost your app in just 1 year. That's really hard, a lot of med schools like to see long-term ECs and a few years of a high GPA. I would also take the time to accurately calculate your GPA, for instance you say in your last 2 years your GPA was "about" 3.7. It makes a big difference for schools like Western whether it's above or below that 3.7. But if you do get a high GPA in one more year and manage to pull together some ECs, I would still apply.

[Gwynplaine]

A 3.7+ GPA in your best 2 years would make you eligible and competitive for Western and Queens. I don't see the need to do a 2nd degree just yet, but for sure your chances at schools like UofT, Mac and Ottawa are pretty much nil. 

 

If things don't work out you probably do need to do a second undergrad. The only places that would take you internationally are the Caribbean schools, and I don't recommend them at all. 

 

What about going to an European or Australian school and then either transferring during one of the years, or simply going the IMG way. The ones in Europe will be much more cost effective compared to what one would pay in the U.S./Caribbean.

 

If you want to be a doctor you have to be willing to put the time and effort in. It looks like you're looking for a way to boost your app in just 1 year. That's really hard, a lot of med schools like to see long-term ECs and a few years of a high GPA. I would also take the time to accurately calculate your GPA, for instance you say in your last 2 years your GPA was "about" 3.7. It makes a big difference for schools like Western whether it's above or below that 3.7. But if you do get a high GPA in one more year and manage to pull together some ECs, I would still apply.

 

I am not sure what my GPA is, and would need to find my logins, but it's probably slightly less than 3.7, thinking 3.5-3.69 range. I'm also not sure if my GPA is higher the last year or before last. However, I do know last semester I took 6 courses in the winter term (max allowed), but the fall term had only 4 and I discontinued one (forgot exact reason, but something to do with the teacher). Also my penultimate year were 4/4 classes for winter/fall as well as taking two in the summer. Not sure how the latter would be viewed by whatever committee oversees this. 

 

Yes, I'm looking to do it in a shorter amount of time, but thinking it would be better to do one year of courses (mosty the pre-reqs) obtain a high GPA, apply, and then if I don't get in, continue with other courses for another year while still strengthening my resume in other areas, and reapply again. 

 

However, I am not sure how the continuing education class credits work though. Let's say I do the previous example and take the first year of pre-reqs, and somehow don't get in for another two application cycles (but have a competitive GPA and ECs during these years), if I add another year and would basically have completed full BSc credits, will I be awarded the degree? In this instance I may not have initially enrolled to do a full BSc program but effectively ended up doing it progressively, with my course load ending up covering all the prerequisites.  

 

And say I finish this degree with 3.85+ GPA, and am competitive in every area, would my initial degree actually be a hindrance to me, due to having a low GPA in it (even though I have two diplomas in vastly different fields), or would it help me in my application? Would they basically forget about my low first GPA and only look at the second (or even be more impressed with having two degrees), or would some schools still take the cumulative GPA for both of them, and render my GPA uncompetitive no matter what. 

[Edict]

What about going to an European or Australian school and then either transferring during one of the years, or simply going the IMG way. The ones in Europe will be much more cost effective compared to what one would pay in the U.S./Caribbean.

 

 

I am not sure what my GPA is, and would need to find my logins, but it's probably slightly less than 3.7, thinking 3.5-3.69 range. I'm also not sure if my GPA is higher the last year or before last. However, I do know last semester I took 6 courses in the winter term (max allowed), but the fall term had only 4 and I discontinued one (forgot exact reason, but something to do with the teacher). Also my penultimate year were 4/4 classes for winter/fall as well as taking two in the summer. Not sure how the latter would be viewed by whatever committee oversees this. 

 

Yes, I'm looking to do it in a shorter amount of time, but thinking it would be better to do one year of courses (mosty the pre-reqs) obtain a high GPA, apply, and then if I don't get in, continue with other courses for another year while still strengthening my resume in other areas, and reapply again. 

 

However, I am not sure how the continuing education class credits work though. Let's say I do the previous example and take the first year of pre-reqs, and somehow don't get in for another two application cycles (but have a competitive GPA and ECs during these years), if I add another year and would basically have completed full BSc credits, will I be awarded the degree? In this instance I may not have initially enrolled to do a full BSc program but effectively ended up doing it progressively, with my course load ending up covering all the prerequisites.  

 

And say I finish this degree with 3.85+ GPA, and am competitive in every area, would my initial degree actually be a hindrance to me, due to having a low GPA in it (even though I have two diplomas in vastly different fields), or would it help me in my application? Would they basically forget about my low first GPA and only look at the second (or even be more impressed with having two degrees), or would some schools still take the cumulative GPA for both of them, and render my GPA uncompetitive no matter what. 

 

I can't help you since your GPA details are a bit murky. You probably would need to talk to Western or Queens med admissions offices to get the 100% correct answer, unless someone here has been in the same situation as you. 

 

At this point I don't think you really have a chance in the US since they look at your entire GPA and a 3-3.1 doesn't really cut it anywhere. 

 

Regarding going to Europe, having an EU citizenship helps a lot, If your GPA is sitting around 3-3.1 you really don't have a chance in Ireland without an insane MCAT. The upward trend might be able to get you in with a very strong MCAT. I would go to Ireland if Western and Queens aren't open to you applying. 

 

Otherwise, there are schools in Poland and Czech Republic that you might want to consider. The reason is that you can still work in Europe if you didn't match to Canada or the US, but you have to really want to live there, so think carefully. The UK is leaving the EU in a few years and the details haven't been worked out but if they do leave you likely won't be able to practice in the UK so think carefully. 

 

Also consider how badly you want medicine, if I were you, with a business degree and such a long and difficult pathway into medicine I would not consider medicine at all and instead get a job in business. Once you get into medical school it will be 4 years of student life, followed by residency which is also tough to get if you went abroad. 

[Gwynplaine]

 

 

Also consider how badly you want medicine, if I were you, with a business degree and such a long and difficult pathway into medicine I would not consider medicine at all and instead get a job in business. Once you get into medical school it will be 4 years of student life, followed by residency which is also tough to get if you went abroad.

 

The thing is, although I have a business degree, I did not initially plan to use it in the traditional sense. I have an interesting story, but something that is not at all relatable to the average person. It starts with the trope that "I didn't apply myself enough," which is true and then some. I had no idea of the importance of GPA, or what it would mean for future studies, I had just done my degree because of the mentality that you need to have one (instilled on me by my parents), I was just there to get it done, with barely any studying and move on. As I've said in my sdn thread, the opportunity cost of me getting this degree was huge, in the 7 figures+. At the time I was a high stakes online poker pro who was making several times a doctor's salary with a fraction of the work, coming from a background where I basically went from barely having enough $ to buy an xbox game, to thinking about retiring with with millions in my 20's, riding the gravy train in the sunset. It was hard to keep a level head and think about my academic future at the time. I was also into sports betting and even used some of the math learned in my degree for creating models (most of it I learned by myself as well as the programming, but it might not have been completely useless at the time), that were consistently successful. If you think Canadian/US medical schools are competitive you should look at how consistently beating closing lines at pinnacle in a major sport is -- i.e. next to impossible.

 

Eventually, legislation, segregation of player pools, decrease in bonus rewards, personal issues, competitiveness etc. made this an industry that has been severely hindered in recent years, and the gravy train has ended. It's something I no longer enjoy doing (or have for some time, although I still play somewhat). I have to jump through hoops and VPNs (+other hassles) to keep accounts/e-wallets active (even now I think I'm connected to a dutch server I left running) , and realize it's not something I may want to continue doing for much longer. I also effectively have a 3 year gap in my resume, since I don't plan on mentioning these things when applying as most reviewing would get the wrong idea (uness I teak it significantly to make it sounds like analyzing stocks or something, which is not too far off), and would basically assume any gambling = degenerate. I don't regret this path, it has afforded me several luxuries during my 20s, allowed me to travel and live in various countries, but feel it may be time to change course.

 

Well, that's my story. In any case, I feel medicine is something that may challenge me and was something that always interested me in high school as a career path. I realize there are several obstacles, personal (the main being my inconsistency and work ethic that have always been my weakness) and academic, but I am willing to work towards it, especially now that I can focus my whole efforts studying and don't need employment for a while as I have enough of a financial cushion to help me.

 

Even if I fail, I will at least not have any regrets and know that I have attempted pursuing this career path.

 

 

 

Otherwise, there are schools in Poland and Czech Republic that you might want to consider. The reason is that you can still work in Europe if you didn't match to Canada or the US, but you have to really want to live there, so think carefully. The UK is leaving the EU in a few years and the details haven't been worked out but if they do leave you likely won't be able to practice in the UK so think carefully. 

 

II am open to this as well. As I mentioned I am indeed an E.U. citizen, and have actually spent a lot of time back and forth Europe and Canada (even living there full time for a while). I am not sure I'd enjoy some of the Eastern Euro ones as I don't speak the language, but would not be opposed to countries such as Spain/France/English speaking ones (if brexit allows). But not sure how easy it would be to migrate between them. If I finish in Poland/CZE would it be easy or a hassle to work in your specialty in say Spain (a language that I speak)? Or would I have to jump through hoops there as well, and have connections etc.?