Does your medical student MSPR matter when you apply for training during residency?

[lovemedicinesomuch]

Does your medical student MSPR when you apply for training during/post residency? And For which programs?

[zoxy]

3 hours ago, lovemedicinesomuch said:

Does your medical student MSPR when you apply for training during/post residency? And For which programs?

I don't think so for most programs. If you look at the required documents on CaRMS for the MSM, FM/ES, or PSM match, very very few programs ask for the MSPR. I'd imagine that recent years of residency would be a much more important factor than the MSPR. But there are a few counter-examples like USask Cardiology which does require it.

Unrelated but U of Manitoba Cardiology asks for undergrad transcripts. Imagine that after four years of med school and 3 years of IM, they'll still be looking at your English grade from freshman year to decide if they interview/rank you. Galaxy brain move from the folks in Winnipeg. That program director must think he's playing 8-D underwater chess while others are playing checkers. Maybe he's looking to see if you aced Analysis in R(n) and can work in multiple dimensions like him.

[indefatigable]

38 minutes ago, zoxy said:

Unrelated but U of Manitoba Cardiology asks for undergrad transcripts. Imagine that after four years of med school and 3 years of IM, they'll still be looking at your English grade from freshman year to decide if they interview/rank you. Galaxy brain move from the folks in Winnipeg. That program director must think he's playing 8-D underwater chess while others are playing checkers. Maybe he's looking to see if you aced Analysis in R(n) and can work in multiple dimensions like him.

It's all about integration 

[zoxy]

3 minutes ago, indefatigable said:

It's all about integration 

Baby Rudin destroyed me. I thought I was good at math before that. I was soooo smug about that 800 SAT Math, Euclid Score, and 5 on Calc BC. I became a Bio major immediately after Baby Rudin. Realized I'm dumb and need to find some sort of cartel to join. Thankfully it's not the Colombian kind.

[indefatigable]

20 minutes ago, zoxy said:

Baby Rudin destroyed me. I thought I was good at math before that. I was soooo smug about that 800 SAT Math, Euclid Score, and 5 on Calc BC. I became a Bio major immediately after Baby Rudin. Realized I'm dumb and need to find some sort of cartel to join. Thankfully it's not the Colombian kind.

Rigour saved you a lifetime of un/underemployment with brutal work-hours!  Sure - you could end up working in the back office, but why not think about the front - bigger bonuses!  

The cardiologist just wants to perform a sanity check to make sure you made the right choice at a critical career point!    

[bearded frog]

I thought MSAR automatically went to carms for every program? I agree that it varies by program how much it is considered, but I thought that every program at least looked because that's where red flags about failed rotations/professionalism infractions/etc. would be.

[zoxy]

35 minutes ago, bearded frog said:

I thought MSAR automatically went to carms for every program?

OP asked about during/post residency so that would be for fellowship or the MSM, FM/ES, or PSM match. Would they still automatically get it three years later? Would the R1 match be automatically linked to the MSM, FM/ES, or PSM match?

[indefatigable]

I think the language is a little confusing - sometimes ITER (residency rotation) is mentioned in the MSPR section.  I mean why would Peds want to see adult IM or surgical rotation comments from medical school?  Anything is possible though.

Interesting facts (randomly checking some MSM, FM/ES, PSM requirements): 

• MCCQE I and II scores are asked for by numerous programs (often for IMGs) - but I'm not sure how much of a role they play beyond P/F
• MSPRs do seem to be important in Peds - but I wonder if this is really referring to residency evaluations vs medical school training - 
• Many MSM/PSM programs ask for medical school transcripts  - but I think it's the same issue of language - it's referring to residency - looking at medical school transcript would be sort of meaningless as matching into those programs would not mean having problems. 

36 minutes ago, zoxy said:

OP asked about during/post residency so that would be for fellowship or the MSM, FM/ES, or PSM match. Would they still automatically get it three years later? Would the R1 match be automatically linked to the MSM, FM/ES, or PSM match?

Nothing is automatically ever sent through CaRMS - everything has to be individually assigned (including birth certificate, etc..)

My understanding is that everything in CaRMS is preserved (unless it's deleted).  So documents/info/ etc is always there.

 

[lovemedicinesomuch]

20 minutes ago, indefatigable said:

I think the language is a little confusing - sometimes ITER (residency rotation) is mentioned in the MSPR section.  I mean why would Peds want to see adult IM or surgical rotation comments from medical school?  Anything is possible though.

Interesting facts (randomly checking some MSM, FM/ES, PSM requirements): 

• MCCQE I and II scores are asked for by numerous programs (often for IMGs) - but I'm not sure how much of a role they play beyond P/F
• MSPRs do seem to be important in Peds - but I wonder if this is really referring to residency evaluations vs medical school training - 
• Many MSM/PSM programs ask for medical school transcripts  - but I think it's the same issue of language - it's referring to residency - looking at medical school transcript would be sort of meaningless as matching into those programs would not mean having problems. 

Nothing is automatically ever sent through CaRMS - everything has to be individually assigned (including birth certificate, etc..)

My understanding is that everything in CaRMS is preserved (unless it's deleted).  So documents/info/ etc is always there.

 

When I was looking at CaRMS website, a fair number of programs in MSM, FM/ES had MSPR in their evaluation criteria. However, I was not sure if these are medical student or residency ITERS.

 

[zoxy]

12 hours ago, lovemedicinesomuch said:

When I was looking at CaRMS website, a fair number of programs in MSM, FM/ES had MSPR in their evaluation criteria. However, I was not sure if these are medical student or residency ITERS.

 

They have it in their evaluation criteria but how can you evaluate something that you don't ask for and don't see? I checked all of the GIM and Cardiology programs in English Canada plus McGill and only USask GIM and Cardiology explicitly asks for the MSPR.  As @indefatigable said, they can't look at it if you don't release it.

I think MSPR being in the evaluation criteria is just part of the rigid CaRMS website that the programs forgot to change.