Seeking to learn about experiences from the Caribbean

[Nik-]

Hi all, I am interested to know about peoples' medical school experiences from the Caribbean. For many years, I have read and heard plenty of unfortunate student stories that painted schools in this area in an unfavourable light. Lately, in my conversations with practising physicians and colleagues, there seems to be a number of success stories that are difficult to ignore. I am curious to hear more experiences, positive and negative, to better inform myself about what to expect during and after medical education in the Caribbean. Feel free to send me a message or reply to this thread with any insights.

[bearded frog]

On 3/19/2022 at 5:56 PM, Nik- said:

Lately, in my conversations with practising physicians and colleagues, there seems to be a number of success stories that are difficult to ignore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

[TopNepNep]

For those wishing to match in US, American medical schools and Caribbean medical school (Big 3) is probably the way because of rotations and electives revolve around in America, thus matching is better for America. And if you are Canadian that matched in America, you should receive "Statement of Need" from Canada to apply for J1 visa, which allows you to come back to Canada with your training and degree after your US residency is complete. 

More info on J1/Statement of Need: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/health-care-system/health-human-resources/statements-need-postgraduate-medical-training-united-states.html

I had 2 friends that were couple together that graduated from UBC in 2013, graduated from one of the big 3  in 2017 and matched in US in internal medicine. Finished residency and came back to Canada. 

 

For those wishing to match directly to Canada (must be Canadian citizen or PR), generally Australia, Ireland (Atlantic Bridge), and British (example: Buckingham) medical school would probably be better to match back to Canada. Each province set their own standard and preference on who gets to match to their province and which IMGs get to do electives in their province (for example: IMG cannot do electives from Saskatchewan unless they are natively from Saskatchewan). Also, IMG residency spots are very limited in Canada. 

But generally, there are vastly more spots of residency in US than in Canada for IMGs, where the residency spots in Canada are mostly all for CMG. 

But be aware these options are expensive (+300k$ total) and its almost a one way trip where you cannot stop and rethink. But because of the pandemic/war/inflation is happening, lots of students (especially in Canada where medical school is extremely difficult to enter) is prospecting elsewhere for their medical career besides Canada. 

[Nik-]

On 3/22/2022 at 7:29 AM, TopNepNep said:

For those wishing to match in US, American medical schools and Caribbean medical school (Big 3) is probably the way because of rotations and electives revolve around in America, thus matching is better for America. And if you are Canadian that matched in America, you should receive "Statement of Need" from Canada to apply for J1 visa, which allows you to come back to Canada with your training and degree after your US residency is complete. 

More info on J1/Statement of Need: https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/health-care-system/health-human-resources/statements-need-postgraduate-medical-training-united-states.html

I had 2 friends that were couple together that graduated from UBC in 2013, graduated from one of the big 3  in 2017 and matched in US in internal medicine. Finished residency and came back to Canada. 

 

For those wishing to match directly to Canada (must be Canadian citizen or PR), generally Australia, Ireland (Atlantic Bridge), and British (example: Buckingham) medical school would probably be better to match back to Canada. Each province set their own standard and preference on who gets to match to their province and which IMGs get to do electives in their province (for example: IMG cannot do electives from Saskatchewan unless they are natively from Saskatchewan). Also, IMG residency spots are very limited in Canada. 

But generally, there are vastly more spots of residency in US than in Canada for IMGs, where the residency spots in Canada are mostly all for CMG. 

But be aware these options are expensive (+300k$ total) and its almost a one way trip where you cannot stop and rethink. But because of the pandemic/war/inflation is happening, lots of students (especially in Canada where medical school is extremely difficult to enter) is prospecting elsewhere for their medical career besides Canada. 

Thanks! This is helpful info and is in-line with the advice I've been provided this year. I'm expecting to my tuition fees to be waived at one of the schools and am willing to take the plunge. If this happens, the cost of the this degree would be equivalent to some master's degree options in Canada.

[leviathan]

I graduated from a Caribbean medical school in 2012 and completed my residency and fellowship in Canada.

It worked out for myself and the majority of my Canadian classmates, but a few went unmatched after multiple years and have given up on being a physician, now with 200-300k in debt. In retrospect, looking at these classmates they often had very low MCAT scores, undergrad GPAs, poor work ethic and study skills etc. 

Canadian medical schools have so few seats that they invariably reject many very qualified applicants who would do well in medical school and go on to be excellent doctors. But there are also people who aren't cut out to be doctors, for various reasons. The difficult question to ask yourself is whether you think you fall into the former or latter category. 

 

[Nik-]

On 3/30/2022 at 12:49 PM, leviathan said:

I graduated from a Caribbean medical school in 2012 and completed my residency and fellowship in Canada.

It worked out for myself and the majority of my Canadian classmates, but a few went unmatched after multiple years and have given up on being a physician, now with 200-300k in debt. In retrospect, looking at these classmates they often had very low MCAT scores, undergrad GPAs, poor work ethic and study skills etc. 

Canadian medical schools have so few seats that they invariably reject many very qualified applicants who would do well in medical school and go on to be excellent doctors. But there are also people who aren't cut out to be doctors, for various reasons. The difficult question to ask yourself is whether you think you fall into the former or latter category. 

 

Thanks! I fall into the former category and plan to attend this fall.

Which residency did you do?

[TopNepNep]

On 3/26/2022 at 1:27 PM, Nik- said:

Thanks! This is helpful info and is in-line with the advice I've been provided this year. I'm expecting to my tuition fees to be waived at one of the schools and am willing to take the plunge. If this happens, the cost of the this degree would be equivalent to some master's degree options in Canada.

Are you planning to attend to SJSM? I believe they have scholarships when you have good MCAT scores that brings the tuition down considerably.

[abcd1288]

4 hours ago, TopNepNep said:

Are you planning to attend to SJSM? I believe they have scholarships when you have good MCAT scores that brings the tuition down considerably.

 

Wasn't SJSM just fined by the FTC for false and misleading advertisement and required to pay $1 mil for students?

 

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/04/federal-trade-commission-takes-action-against-profit-medical-school-using-deceptive-marketing-lure

[TopNepNep]

10 hours ago, abcd1288 said:

 

Wasn't SJSM just fined by the FTC for false and misleading advertisement and required to pay $1 mil for students?

 

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/04/federal-trade-commission-takes-action-against-profit-medical-school-using-deceptive-marketing-lure

I heard that news and heard even worse news than that. Its pretty much they lied about their STEP 1 pass rates and attrition rate. They go thoroughly on it on the sdn forums:

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/saint-james-school-of-medicine-honest-review-from-current-student.1367837/

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/saint-james-school-of-medicine.1368202/

Its a matter of survival of the fittest for the first 2 years on the island, where anyone is accepted but ~80% drop/transfer/fail. But they give out "scholarships" (should be called discounts) for those with better MCAT scores (possibly smarter/more hard worker) just to somehow increase those STEP pass/graduation rate to look perceivable better in their advertisement to attract other students who may be no where near capable to pass these exams. The risks should be warned and be prepare to fight for your life when you are on the islands.

[abcd1288]

18 hours ago, TopNepNep said:

I heard that news and heard even worse news than that. Its pretty much they lied about their STEP 1 pass rates and attrition rate. They go thoroughly on it on the sdn forums:

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/saint-james-school-of-medicine-honest-review-from-current-student.1367837/

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/saint-james-school-of-medicine.1368202/

Its a matter of survival of the fittest for the first 2 years on the island, where anyone is accepted but ~80% drop/transfer/fail. But they give out "scholarships" (should be called discounts) for those with better MCAT scores (possibly smarter/more hard worker) just to somehow increase those STEP pass/graduation rate to look perceivable better in their advertisement to attract other students who may be no where near capable to pass these exams. The risks should be warned and be prepare to fight for your life when you are on the islands.

Oh yeah, I don't have any doubts about this. And I feel like a lot of the Caribbean schools follow this kind of structure and not just SJSM (survival of the fittest and intentionally weeding out people from taking step 1 just to make the stats look good).