IMGs not matching

[mohammad]

On Twitter, there are many IMGs (CSA) who talk about not matching and how unfair it is. There are talks about how there are unmatched family medicine spots and IMGs should take them. Honestly, I look down on CSA who left with their low GPAs, low MCAT, to study medicine abroad and think they deserve to come back to practice. There is a system in place to attend medical school and train in Canada yet these students choose the easy way to become a doctor without thinking about where they may be able to work. 

Have a look at the threads about upgrading gpa or retaking mcat and see how hardworking some of the premeds are. Why should those who take the easy way and pay for their MD expect to return for residency and work here? 

[bearded frog]

[SpeakWhite]

Why not apply to Québec? Almost all of the positions are open to IMGs and there are lots of FM spots left over.

[Sceptical]

@SpeakWhiteWhy does language constitute such a large barrier, to the point where the province of Quebec is left with so many unfilled residency training positions, even after 2nd iteration? Presumably CSAs have had to overcome many barriers too (eg. attritional educational models like in the Caribbean schools, standardized tests, studying in a foreign country, securing NA electives, the uncertainty of matching), but what makes learning French for the first time (or refining it for those previously exposed to French immersion) something few would even consider undertaking to maximize one’s chances at eventually finding work back home? 

[radd]

.

[SpeakWhite]

45 minutes ago, AJ13 said:

But in the province of Quebec, they don't look at your GPA, they modify it and that gives you a score. They then look at this score. This means that a GPA in undergrad X can give you a shitty score, but can give someone else in undergrad Y (who has the exact same GPA) an amazing score. Both of them have the same GPA, yet only one of them is competitive to apply to med school. That's my case. My non-trad undergrad gives me a score of 29.211. Not competitive at all. Had I done an undergrad in PT though, the exact same GPA would get me 32.873. That's competitive.

The R-score is a significantly better system than GPAs as it is much more resistant against gaming by taking easier courses or going to weaker schools. In addition, there's a lot more room for differentiation based on grades (everyone gets a 4.0, but R-scores still vary among top candidates). Your comparison between your program and another program's R-score is a naïve one, because the difference in R-score for a given grade in different classes is entirely due to variations in the class average, standard distribution, and underlying class strength. Getting different R-scores for 85% in one class versus another is precisely the point of the R-score. Your score of 29 means you were approximately just under one standard deviation above the average Quebec high school student (including those that did not go to CEGEP).

[radd]

On 4/4/2023 at 5:49 PM, SpeakWhite said:

The R-score is a significantly better system than GPAs as it is much more resistant against gaming by taking easier courses or going to weaker schools. In addition, there's a lot more room for differentiation based on grades (everyone gets a 4.0, but R-scores still vary among top candidates). Your comparison between your program and another program's R-score is a naïve one, because the difference in R-score for a given grade in different classes is entirely due to variations in the class average, standard distribution, and underlying class strength. Getting different R-scores for 85% in one class versus another is precisely the point of the R-score. Your score of 29 means you were approximately just under one standard deviation above the average Quebec high school student (including those that did not go to CEGEP).

.

 

[trying1997]

who cares

[rmorelan]

10 hours ago, trying1997 said:

who cares

ha, they do....so by extension so should everyone else. Even if you are 100% opposed to them returning. Maybe even more so then, because what you have is a very vocal group of people who are politically connected and generally have funding attempting to expand their access to spots the currently Canadian trained grads are also trying to access. Plus they don't exactly have anything to lose. There is every reason to suspect over time they could be successful. 

Thus regardless of what side of the fence you find yourself on the issue, it would be a classic mistake to ignore them or dismiss them. They aren't going away.

[Intrepid86]

This isn't new or unexpected. The difficulty with Canadian medical schools is getting into one. The difficulty with international medical schools is getting a residency. At the end of the day there are no shortcuts. Whether you pay now, or pay later, is completely at one's own discretion.

Unfortunately, many who go abroad to study underestimate how difficult it is to match back to Canada. Returning is the exception not the rule. Most international grads who are successful end up in the United States.

[trying1997]

14 hours ago, rmorelan said:

ha, they do....so by extension so should everyone else. Even if you are 100% opposed to them returning. Maybe even more so then, because what you have is a very vocal group of people who are politically connected and generally have funding attempting to expand their access to spots the currently Canadian trained grads are also trying to access. Plus they don't exactly have anything to lose. There is every reason to suspect over time they could be successful. 

Thus regardless of what side of the fence you find yourself on the issue, it would be a classic mistake to ignore them or dismiss them. They aren't going away.

How do you feel about the issue?

[SpeakWhite]

On 4/8/2023 at 10:53 AM, trying1997 said:

How do you feel about the issue?

Not the person you are replying to, but the Canadian health care systems (of which there are many) should 1) rely exclusively on a Canadian training pipeline with return-of-service obligations, 2) protect their citizens who may be tempted to spend colossal sums of money by studying medicine abroad to bypass the Canadian admission process, by preventing CSAs from matching to residency in Canada, and 3) stop poaching trained physicians from other countries (who need them much more) with false immigration promises and subjecting them to the abuse of the IMG industry/MCC etc.