Ian Wong Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 Hi all, Please remember to stay professional. This is clearly a strongly emotional discussion, but it needs to stay respectful. Otherwise, the thread will be locked. Thank you, Ian AnneR11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 Groan - resetting this as we are all way of topic to say the least, and the conversation has devolved to personal attacks somehow. Keep it civil people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 8 hours ago, Imghope said: You know it’s funny all this fighting and trying to favour one stream to another, as Canadian citizens the best way for those at disadvantage (aka IMGs) to circumvent the system, especially with new CPSO rules is to do residency in the US (any school) and fly right back and you can practice like any other Canadian residency graduate and you get paid more during residency as well. The number of programs is not comparable to Canada. the issue is, people who go down south to train rarely come back to Canada to practice. Side note you are also vulnerable to various program changing rules to make the training not equivalent - and thus you are stuck in that scenario back in the US - and perhaps with the wrong visa at that I suppose. Not a threat that is without consideration as the US/Can equivalency with many things is changing in part as Canada is getting "tired" of balance accreditation rules involving two countries (every Dean I have spoken to would love to break free of US rules). There have been may examples in the past where somewhere along the line someone has changed a rule and left people in the cold - that happens at every level of this process, although obviously on this board those in premed status are most likely familiar with admission changes having an impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 6 hours ago, indefatigable said: I did see that post and like most other people did take it as a bit of a joke. It's an interesting idea, but unfortunately I don't believe it would work any better. To summarize, from what I understand, your proposal basically removes any program rank lists and substitutes a random list in place. Firstly, unfortunately, CaRMS does charge to use its platform. Even if programs aren't submitting rank lists, applying to a program does cost money. So, once again, applicants with more money can buy more tickets to the lottery and have a better chance of matching to programs that they prefer. Secondly, while there are certainly problems with nepotism etc under the current system, your proposal removes any pretence of applicants and programs being best matched to each other. Lotteries can create winners but they create a lot of losers too. I don't see that as in issue - if IMGs train and then choose to stay the US then that's their choice. At least under the rule change, Canadians citizens or PRs that choose to work and stay in the US will not be able to protest that they are unable to come back to Canada because of licensing restrictions. If I am understanding this correctly as well it prevents the various programs from selecting people (or rather excluding to a more important aspect) those that it doesn't want to work with. Residency is many things, but it is also a 2 (soon to be 3) to 7 year job. Forcing a group of doctors at the end of the day to work with someone for whatever reason doesn't want to work with them is something they will not let happen easily. Programs don't actually have to take residents (programs don't even have to exist)- you think you have shortages now, see what happens with that. You don't see this talked about very much but programs truly are terrified of having the "wrong" people selected for their programs. A bad resident can be extremely bad for a program. Imagine as well if you were truly skilled in a particular specialty and it was your life's ambition to do that - how happy would you be that the determining factor for your success was simply a roll of the dice for the 8+ years (and can be many more) that you put into things. Such a system would be truly "fair' in the sense that everyone is treated equally but it comes at a very high cost. One of the things that truly stresses people with CARMS is the outcome is not completely in your control - with this it is entirely not in your control. Also there are simply some fields in medicine that some people by temperament have zero interest in doing - you would risk people (who have been trained at vast cost) to leave the system entirely if randomly forced to so something. We are not all interchangeable widgets - although there is fair point that anyone going into medicine should seriously consider whether they would be happy being a family doctor, as realistically there is a non-zero chance going though CARMS that ultimately that is the result. Personally if assigned some fields in medicine would simply have resulted me in leaving medicine if forced to stay there (to the benefit of both myself and any potential patient I would get down the line). CARMS like well any job interview process will have biased but random outcomes but I am not sure we want to make that randomness even worse in the second round. Image you are randomly selected to fill one of the occasionally left surgical spots but have no desire or perhaps even ability to be a surgeon - how is that helping anyone? What probably would happen is people would be randomly selected to things, and then immediately enter in the internal transfer process to a speciality they are interested in - which defeats the point of having quotas in the first place for various things. Imagine as well if you were truly skilled in a particular specialty and it was your life's ambition to do that - how happy would you be that the determining factor for your success was simply a roll of the dice for the 8+ years (and can be many more) that you put into things. Such a system would be truly "fair' in the sense that everyone is treated equally but it comes at a very high cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 On 4/16/2023 at 1:56 AM, Salty_Ruin said: https://www.afmc.ca/resources-data/education/future-md-canada/ under How much is tuition at a Canadian Medical School: Tuition fees are mandatory fees paid by students to help cover the cost of their education. Although they may appear high, they represent a small portion of the total cost of training to become a physician. The actual costs of medical training in Canada are shared by the provincial governments, medical schools, and students. Medical education subsidies paid by the provincial governments vary both by program and province. The subsidized tuition is why medical school is around 20K per year while dental school is closer to 50-60K. Ha, true - I now on the other side get to see the true cost of thing at medical school and well it is a bit scary (cadavers cost vastly, vastly more than I initially realized). All of our education from the very beginning is subsidized. As a side note I really do think the dental school difference is a bit silly there as well. We need doctors, we need dentists...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unmatched2022 Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 12 hours ago, Imghope said: You know it’s funny all this fighting and trying to favour one stream to another, as Canadian citizens the best way for those at disadvantage (aka IMGs) to circumvent the system, especially with new CPSO rules is to do residency in the US (any school) and fly right back and you can practice like any other Canadian residency graduate and you get paid more during residency as well. The number of programs is not comparable to Canada. the issue is, people who go down south to train rarely come back to Canada to practice. Can you expand on the new CPSO rules? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphonsine Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 Did anyone get a glitch in their Carms yesterday? I got re-sent an interview invite and I got spooked. Was it the program or Carms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 Did anyone get a call from uoft? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphonsine Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Rhino said: Did anyone get a call from uoft? Did you interview there? I'm stressed for the 27th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Alphonsine said: Did you interview there? I'm stressed for the 27th. It was after 14th. Which was the deadline for their ranking list. I wasn’t even prepared for it. It was really awkward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphonsine Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 38 minutes ago, Rhino said: It was after 14th. Which was the deadline for their ranking list. I wasn’t even prepared for it. It was really awkward Which program? Is it Family Medicine? How many interviews did you get? According to Carms, there were about 18,000 applicant ranks and 3800 program ranks. that means most people didn't rank at all. If you got ranked, there is a high % you will match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphonsine Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 I'm thinking people bombed interviews? or didn't have the profile program directors wanted for the program. Can anyone elaborate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 20 minutes ago, Alphonsine said: Which program? Is it Family Medicine? How many interviews did you get? According to Carms, there were about 18,000 applicant ranks and 3800 program ranks. that means most people didn't rank at all. If you got ranked, there is a high % you will match. They only have 2 positions. Yes family medicine. I dont think they will rank me considering my awkwardness during the call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathognomonic Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 They can still send invites even after rank deadline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphonsine Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, Pathognomonic said: They can still send invites even after rank deadline? Yeah that is what I was wondering. Because I got re-sent an invitation. So many scenarios going through my head - I'm ranked to match, PGME office took me off the rank list... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphonsine Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 15 minutes ago, Pathognomonic said: They can still send invites even after rank deadline? My case is different from Rhino's. He got a new interview after 14th. I got re-sent an old invite - it was exactly the same as the old email I got. I'm thinking the program administrator made a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathognomonic Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 But didn't know they can still send new invites after rank deadline. Because the program rank deadline was on the 14th while applicants was on the 19th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 Just now, Pathognomonic said: But didn't know they can still send new invites after rank deadline. Because the program rank deadline was on the 14th while applicants was on the 19th. Thats why I wasn't prepared and it felt so weird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathognomonic Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, Rhino said: Thats why I wasn't prepared and it felt so weird yeah i don't blame you. it could be a good thing though. perhaps the candidates they interviewed didn't do so well? Also i'm wondering what constitutes "bombing a residency interview?" I'm terrible at them myself and unfortunately didn't match 1st iteration. I feel worried for the 27th as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphonsine Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 23 minutes ago, Pathognomonic said: yeah i don't blame you. it could be a good thing though. perhaps the candidates they interviewed didn't do so well? Also i'm wondering what constitutes "bombing a residency interview?" I'm terrible at them myself and unfortunately didn't match 1st iteration. I feel worried for the 27th as well. Did you get invited to Hematopath in Manitoba? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphonsine Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 28 minutes ago, Pathognomonic said: yeah i don't blame you. it could be a good thing though. perhaps the candidates they interviewed didn't do so well? Also i'm wondering what constitutes "bombing a residency interview?" I'm terrible at them myself and unfortunately didn't match 1st iteration. I feel worried for the 27th as well. Program rank deadline was 14th. The PGME office was the 19th. I'm thinking maybe people bombed the IV, then the program added more interview spots and sent the rank list to the PGME office to fix? Pathognomonic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathognomonic Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 34 minutes ago, Alphonsine said: Did you get invited to Hematopath in Manitoba? No i didn't. did you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphonsine Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 33 minutes ago, Pathognomonic said: No i didn't. did you? No I didn't. I didn't apply there. I got 2 very specialized interviews - I don't want to say where because that would give away my identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphonsine Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 Ontario Family Medicine spots depending on the location aren't as keen as others (say Moose Jaw Saskatchewan) for rural experience. I know somebody (IMG) who matched into Thousand Islands Stream Family Medicine and she lived in Toronto all her life. I think if you get an interview, you have a decent chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, Alphonsine said: Ontario Family Medicine spots depending on the location aren't as keen as others (say Moose Jaw Saskatchewan) for rural experience. I know somebody (IMG) who matched into Thousand Islands Stream Family Medicine and she lived in Toronto all her life. I think if you get an interview, you have a decent chance. It has been 6 cycles that I am participating in and getting interviews without matching.. I guess that decent chance is not working with my bright luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.