FM/ES - unfilled EM spots

[takasugi]

I've heard the +1 EM program for Family Medicine residents is pretty competitive. However, I was looking at the unfilled spots in the 2nd round from this past FM/ES match and saw 3 spots left in English Canada. 1 was at NOSM and 2 at Calgary. Previous years have had no spots left in the 2nd round but I was really surprised to see that the 3 spots in this years match didn't fill in the 1st round.

https://www.carms.ca/pdfs/hFjhu294cv_FMES_OverviewByDiscipline_EN.pdf

Anyone have any thoughts on why? Just a weird year? Undesirable location? I would think places like Saskatchewan and Manitoba are less desirable. And 1 year in Calgary or Northern Ontario doesn't seem that bad.... it's not like a 5-year residency.

[Vendar]

Could have been multiple factors - but overall still quite competitive. 

I noticed that from my school many individuals only apply to in-province schools or only venture to the next door province. 

It would be interesting to see how many applicants actually do Canada wide for the enhanced skill program 

[zoxy]

19 hours ago, takasugi said:

Undesirable location? I would think places like Saskatchewan and Manitoba are less desirable. And 1 year in Calgary or Northern Ontario doesn't seem that bad

Have you ever been to Thunder Bay? Thunder Bay is essentially as cold as Saskatoon and Winnipeg, but smaller, more isolated, less diverse, and poorer. Winnipeg has 750K people, and Sask is rich. Saskatoon is 5-6 hours to Edmonton and Calgary. Thunder Bay is 8 hours to Winnipeg and 15 to Toronto.

Thunder Bay and Sudbury are probably the two least desirable places in Canada with sizable training programs. Their IM program filled 1 spot out of 7 CMG spots this past cycle, and their Psych program filled 1 of 3. Winnipeg completely fills IM most years and Sask filled 16 of 19 for IM. 

As for the Calgary program. They probably got cocky and didn't bother interviewing enough people and got burned for it. The match is unpredictable year to year, for programs too. Interviewing 30 people for 8 spots is way too aggressive a ratio and I assume they got burned for it this year, which should humble them going forward. They're Calgary not Mass General. 

[GH0ST]

On 5/19/2023 at 4:40 PM, zoxy said:

Have you ever been to Thunder Bay? Thunder Bay is essentially as cold as Saskatoon and Winnipeg, but smaller, more isolated, less diverse, and poorer. Winnipeg has 750K people, and Sask is rich. Saskatoon is 5-6 hours to Edmonton and Calgary. Thunder Bay is 8 hours to Winnipeg and 15 to Toronto.

Thunder Bay and Sudbury are probably the two least desirable places in Canada with sizable training programs. Their IM program filled 1 spot out of 7 CMG spots this past cycle, and their Psych program filled 1 of 3. Winnipeg completely fills IM most years and Sask filled 16 of 19 for IM. 

As for the Calgary program. They probably got cocky and didn't bother interviewing enough people and got burned for it. The match is unpredictable year to year, for programs too. Interviewing 30 people for 8 spots is way too aggressive a ratio and I assume they got burned for it this year, which should humble them going forward. They're Calgary not Mass General. 

Honestly before I started at NOSM I might have had that same belief... but honestly Sudbury at least is one of the better places I've gone to personally. Training site with the CCFP-EM docs there are really focused on tailoring the experience to the resident's needs and Sudbury is at most 4hrs away from GTA. NOSM residents in CCFP EM also get opportunities to rotate in other high volume places to get more exposure. Thunder Bay can be isolating however and I can see that being an issue. 

- G

[rmorelan]

9 hours ago, GH0ST said:

Honestly before I started at NOSM I might have had that same belief... but honestly Sudbury at least is one of the better places I've gone to personally. Training site with the CCFP-EM docs there are really focused on tailoring the experience to the resident's needs and Sudbury is at most 4hrs away from GTA. NOSM residents in CCFP EM also get opportunities to rotate in other high volume places to get more exposure. Thunder Bay can be isolating however and I can see that being an issue. 

- G

an hour by plane as well, to right downtown. It is strange to me that it is usually faster to get from Sudbury to my home in Toronto than it is to get from Toronto to my paren't home in Guelph. 

I am in Sudbury quite a bit actually (ha, if you are doing ER work up there you will definitely run into our team at some point). 

[zoxy]

On 6/17/2023 at 8:14 PM, GH0ST said:

Honestly before I started at NOSM I might have had that same belief... but honestly Sudbury at least is one of the better places I've gone to personally.

My comments about Sudbury and Thunder Bay being the least desirable had more to do with their programs consistently having empty spots. I don't know anything about their programs, they might be terrific for all I know. I've also never been to Sudbury and know nothing about it other than acid rain and smelting, so I spent my time lambasting Thunder Bay which I've been to.

Also OP's prairie bashing got to me. The notion that Thunder Bay must be more desirable than Winnipeg and Saskatchewan solely by virtue of being in Ontario hit a raw nerve.

[rmorelan]

14 minutes ago, zoxy said:

My comments about Sudbury and Thunder Bay being the least desirable had more to do with their programs consistently having empty spots. I don't know anything about their programs, they might be terrific for all I know. I've also never been to Sudbury and know nothing about it other than acid rain and smelting, so I spent my time lambasting Thunder Bay which I've been to.

Also OP's prairie bashing got to me. The notion that Thunder Bay must be more desirable than Winnipeg and Saskatchewan solely by virtue of being in Ontario hit a raw nerve.

Side note -  as I understand it they do actually have a pretty good rep. I do suspect there is the usual issues with location. 

Ha - that would seem to be a bit of an Ontario bias. People do leave in other parts of the country  we are talking about some major sites vs a city of about 170K people for Sudbury (which has its on things going for it - I am actually in Sudbury as we speak)