Lack of dermatology electives available

[buddy72]

Is it normal for it to be extremely challenging to secure dermatology electives, especially visiting ones? It's no secret that dermatology is competitive, but there has been practically no availability for visiting electives offered through the AFMC portal. I managed to apply for one at USask, one at UBC, and that has literally been it. Most schools with derm programs have opened up electives for other specialties during the timeframe that I am booking for. The only derm visiting electives that have been offered for some time now are rural derm electives available through UOttawa. 

It seems as though other extremely competitive specialties have not had a lack of booking availabilities (plastics, optho, ENT, etc.). I have been pretty good about checking the portal quite frequently, especially during update times. Are derm electives just that hard to get with very few offerings available? I know that my home school only allows us to do one home derm elective, so I can imagine it would be challenging to get a visiting elective in derm here. At this point, I'm wondering if most derm applicants even manage to get 4 electives booked in this area. 

[dragoncat]

It is unfortunately like this every year for a few specialties including derm; students have a very tough time getting electives. I suggest looking into relevant alternatives such as physicians in peds derm, or family med with derm+1 who you may be able to get an elective with. 

I don't know how the portal factors into this as my cohort and the 2 ahead of me did not need to use it due to visiting electives not being allowed. I wonder if you can also reach out to the chief residents in different derm programs, they may be able to hep you out by working with their admin to get you an elective. Good luck to you for your Carms journey, hope it all works out! 

[buddy72]

Thanks for this information. Considering how tough it is to get Derm electives, is it still critical to do 8 weeks of electives in Derm considering how competitive it is? It is looking like it might be impossible to do this for me.

[carmsprep1]

It is not critical to have 8 weeks and your best shot is typically your homeschool. Some smaller programs already have their candidates decided but choose to host electives anyways, and some are basically shadowing only with limited opportunity to impress or obtain letters. 

[rmorelan]

7 hours ago, buddy72 said:

Thanks for this information. Considering how tough it is to get Derm electives, is it still critical to do 8 weeks of electives in Derm considering how competitive it is? It is looking like it might be impossible to do this for me.

Derm is annoying that way - it truly is one of the very few cases where they may be a home school advantage that is relatively important. Very few electives, relatively few schools doing them. 

The programs are very aware of the problems mind you so that is factored into their processes. They don't want to lose out on good candidates either. 

 

 

[Edict]

The AFMC portal is the official way but from my experience, read the fine print, a lot of schools have different rules and I found out that at some schools, people had already secured electives before the eligibility opened officially. For specialties like derm people probably stay up to book electives in the same way you'd book tickets to a popular concert or restaurant. 

[buddy72]

On 10/10/2023 at 6:17 PM, carmsprep1 said:

It is not critical to have 8 weeks and your best shot is typically your homeschool. Some smaller programs already have their candidates decided but choose to host electives anyways, and some are basically shadowing only with limited opportunity to impress or obtain letters. 

I have been trying to shadow as much as possible to take advantage of my proximity to my home program. Even so, I find it challenging because our official dermatology program also heavily limits the amount of shadowing we are allowed to do. I guess that I may have to try to do more community derm shadowing, but I also feel like there's variable utility in that with some community dermatologists being less engaged on selection committees.

 

On 10/10/2023 at 10:10 PM, rmorelan said:

Derm is annoying that way - it truly is one of the very few cases where they may be a home school advantage that is relatively important. Very few electives, relatively few schools doing them. 

The programs are very aware of the problems mind you so that is factored into their processes. They don't want to lose out on good candidates either. 

 

 

I hope that programs are quite understanding of this in general. I know that the program director at my home school is aware of this reality, but another academic dermatologist in my home program was quite specific that we needed as many electives as possible. I guess you will ultimately have variability in what different selection committee members value and think is necessary.

 

On 10/13/2023 at 10:59 AM, Edict said:

The AFMC portal is the official way but from my experience, read the fine print, a lot of schools have different rules and I found out that at some schools, people had already secured electives before the eligibility opened officially. For specialties like derm people probably stay up to book electives in the same way you'd book tickets to a popular concert or restaurant. 

Very interesting, I wonder how this is possible. It's unfortunate that this occurs as it obviously advantages those with connections in what is already a very competitive specialty. I've already lost a lot of sleep over elective booking, but it's looking doubtful that I will secure 4 dermatology electives 

[Edict]

2 hours ago, buddy72 said:

I have been trying to shadow as much as possible to take advantage of my proximity to my home program. Even so, I find it challenging because our official dermatology program also heavily limits the amount of shadowing we are allowed to do. I guess that I may have to try to do more community derm shadowing, but I also feel like there's variable utility in that with some community dermatologists being less engaged on selection committees.

 

I hope that programs are quite understanding of this in general. I know that the program director at my home school is aware of this reality, but another academic dermatologist in my home program was quite specific that we needed as many electives as possible. I guess you will ultimately have variability in what different selection committee members value and think is necessary.

 

Very interesting, I wonder how this is possible. It's unfortunate that this occurs as it obviously advantages those with connections in what is already a very competitive specialty. I've already lost a lot of sleep over elective booking, but it's looking doubtful that I will secure 4 dermatology electives 

If you email a staff or know a staff you worked with previously and they email the coordinator to say put this student with me, you can have an elective booked way in advance. I've heard of this example only once, its not the norm, but just saying that there are a lot of these hidden rules in medicine unfortunately. 

[Bobthebuilder]

50 minutes ago, Edict said:

If you email a staff or know a staff you worked with previously and they email the coordinator to say put this student with me, you can have an elective booked way in advance. I've heard of this example only once, its not the norm, but just saying that there are a lot of these hidden rules in medicine unfortunately. 

How common is this ? My program explicitly forbids it. They threaten students with a non-professionnalism note on their file if you they do.

[rmorelan]

3 hours ago, buddy72 said:

I have been trying to shadow as much as possible to take advantage of my proximity to my home program. Even so, I find it challenging because our official dermatology program also heavily limits the amount of shadowing we are allowed to do. I guess that I may have to try to do more community derm shadowing, but I also feel like there's variable utility in that with some community dermatologists being less engaged on selection committees.

 

I hope that programs are quite understanding of this in general. I know that the program director at my home school is aware of this reality, but another academic dermatologist in my home program was quite specific that we needed as many electives as possible. I guess you will ultimately have variability in what different selection committee members value and think is necessary.

 

Very interesting, I wonder how this is possible. It's unfortunate that this occurs as it obviously advantages those with connections in what is already a very competitive specialty. I've already lost a lot of sleep over elective booking, but it's looking doubtful that I will secure 4 dermatology electives 

you will always have variability unfortunately - I hope programs take it into consideration but I know sometimes it is not easy - when you are already flooded with applicants, and they are already quite good, then there is a natural tendency to not go around and seek out more. It is one of those frustrating aspects of CARMS. 

The advice they give to do as many as possible just makes sense - easier to have them in hand then have to explain why you don't. Even if they are as you say community placements that is still something to talk about. I won't worry as much about their engagement on selection committees - for one thing that is going to just trace back to a single school anyway, and more over we take steps to prevent "interference" in the selection process to blunt another effects. 

[Edict]

1 hour ago, Bobthebuilder said:

How common is this ? My program explicitly forbids it. They threaten students with a non-professionnalism note on their file if you they do.

No idea to be honest. I've only heard of it once, but these are the kind of grey area things that are explicit but not enforced at some places, explicit and enforced at some places, tolerated at others 

[carmsprep1]

9 hours ago, Bobthebuilder said:

How common is this ? My program explicitly forbids it. They threaten students with a non-professionnalism note on their file if you they do.

More common than most imagine; I know several derm applicants in this year who did it with no consequence (but stellar letters) so far. Naturally, they are electing to take the risk of being flagged, though.