How long does it take?

[Guest waitingINwonder]

Wow, so many of this "chosen one's" posts are just filled with arrogance and I have had just about enough.

 

You sound pathetically bitter to me and I say get lost.

 

Personally, I don't want advice from a dentist (even one who is going on to be an oral surgeon) since it is NOTHING like medicine!

[Guest ssc427]

Why has this troll been allowed to post 212 times? Even this clown's user name 'TheChosenOne' should be a red flag.

[Guest silverjelly86]

I AM THE CHOSEN ONE!!! Mwaaa haa haa!!!! :evil

 

That's what he should post.

[Guest kaolausb]

ALL OF U GUYS.. why do u guys let TheChosenOneDDS down when he's just express his own opnion... all he wanted to say is that if u want to be a doctor, there's always another option to study aboard and get your degree in 6 years instead of spending countless times and hours in Canada... you REALLY want to be a doctor and are sick and tired of the waiting and the rejection, I mean.. go to Aussie or Ireland... u are not under pressure of maintain high mark and you get in med school right after highschool... Also... you guys don't have to be such A-hole on this forum... Anyone has the right to express his opnion... In my view.. it is pretty nonsense to waste time, money and youth in Canada... seriously...TheChosenOneDDS is just trying to help u guys out here by opening up more ways to reach ur destination... so.. please be friendly on this forum>: >: >: >:

[Guest ssc427]

He is of course allowed to express his opinion. One which I in fact, in general, share. But saying that people with grad degrees are no better than drunks is a little much and echoes the rantings of some sociopathic high school student sitting in his parent's basement. Actually, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was his true identity.

 

He has several such comments which are clearly there only to irritate and insult the rest of the board. Thus he is a troll and does not contribute anything of value to the discussion.

[Guest Artist]

Is it me, or do I get a feeling that ChosenOne's post sounds a bit naive, and what a pretentious higherschooler would post? I don't even believe for one second that this guy is even in dentistry, much less even an undergraduate degree.

[Guest Lurkergonepublic]

In paritial defense of TheChosenOne (although maybe not in his eyes), I do not think he is a 'troll.' I have read a lot of his posts, and come to a few personal conclusions, some of which are supported by his own admissions.

 

He readily admits to being slightly arrogant or superior feeling (although usually with the caveat that he may be wrong about something). He often mentions goals, success, winners, losers, his unique ability to work the system for his own purposes, and has named as his role models those contemporary and historical figures who built the greatest financial and/or military empires (Trump, Napolean, Kang). My suspicion is that he is a strict adherent to some type of life philosophy (there are many versions) based on a handful of paradigms about defining success and how to get it. I'm talking about the sort of philosophy you usually find in get rich quick books, or certain brands of network marketing. Success is defined as setting a goal (usually financial or status oriented with little consideration of less measurable things like family, service, personal growth and relationships) and acheiving it by any means necessary.

 

This type of world view is often characterized with blunt, clear definitions of winners and losers, usually based upon the individuals own goals for life, superimposed on the world around them. We all do this internally (it's how we judge the world around us), but some people project it more openly than others, using the stick they use to measure their own success on everyone else as well, ignoring the fact that different worldviews lead to different goals and priorities. I think the DDS knows this, but still thinks he is right. Hence, much less subtley than most people would have in the criticisms of others living by a different definiation of 'winning.' He knows he offends, but feels it is his right (or possibly duty) to speak his mind, as it is full of the "gems of wisdom" he has gleaned through studying the success of the greats. The result is the sort of sensitivity, one might say, that only a surgeon could get away with. And hey, it might make a good surgeon who is completely focused on 'winning' in the operation at hand...

 

I'm no psycologist, nor do I wish to offend. I just like to observe people, and those are my own tentative conclusions about this fellow from the limited evidence of his message postings I have seen. Maybe the ChosenOne himself can lend some more light on the issue, as I would suspect he has been very much consiously involved in the development of his own life philosophy.

[Guest silverjelly86]

Lurker, I awe at your way with words. And you're probably right.

 

I think the high school comments stem from TheChosenwhateverwhatever's "really sweet jobs" as a way of describing certain physician specialties. I actually like reading his posts, as they are very interesting. You can tell that he is a really strong personality, and thus overwhelms many people (including most of this board's readers).

 

I still like his user name, though.

[Guest ssc427]

Let’s take one of the guy's quotes:

 

People who are like that, are true losers to the sense of the word. Because chances are they might not even suceed and when they die, they will have nothing to show for....sure you might have all these degrees, but with no family, no kids, no real accomplishments in the world, you're no better than some bum who wasted away as a booze hound....at least that is my two cents.

 

Now replace the reference to grad students as being wasted booze hounds with black, gay or jewish people. Is it appropriate then? I hope not. Why is it appropriate when he is talking about grad students? I will be turning down several post-doc/lectureships and starting med school at age 29 with a MSc, PhD (which resulted in over 10 first authored publications), wife and kids. While I don’t take offense at what this muppet thinks of me some of my other grad brothers and sisters might.

 

My philosophical appraisal of DDS: high school student with a rich father who’s a DDS. His father enjoys belittling other people and so DDS in turn enjoys this, and since he is a high school student his condescension comes across in a somewhat less than eloquent spew.

 

We should get some kind of pool going here.

[Guest peachy]

My philosophical appraisal of DDS: high school student with a rich father who’s a DDS. His father enjoys belittling other people and so DDS in turn enjoys this, and since he is a high school student his condescension comes across in a somewhat less than eloquent spew.

 

We should get some kind of pool going here.

Okay, here's mine: he's a graduating dental student who didn't get accepted into an oral surgery program in Canada, so he's going to a very expensive US program that wasn't his first choice instead. He feels the need to justify to himself that he made the right decision by going that route instead of spending time in Canada improving his application, so he's doing it by belittling people who didn't happen to choose the same path as him.

 

Any other theories?

[Guest silverjelly86]

I'm with peachy's theory.

[Guest ploughboy]

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Lurkergonepublic - brilliant analysis, absolutely brilliant. Probably the most insightful post I've read on this board in the past year. Are you at all leaning towards a psyche residency?

 

pb

 

 

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[Guest TheChosenOneDDS]

peachy i got into U of T, but TExas has the best program.

 

I wanted to move. Sorry man, your theory is wrong. besides i'm rich lol, money isn't an issue for me

[Guest treehuggingbiologist]

TheChosenOneDDS is secretly a robot representative from a Canadian medical school sent to these forums with the sole purpose of putting us off of applying. His objective is to help reduce the numbers in the applicant pool (since GPA doesn't reduce the pool enough with the double cohort). Together with measures such as ignoring every third applicant, and only taking in students with surnames that rhyme with "bamboozle" (atleast for the 2006 cycle) the Canadian medical system will be saved from any possibility of expansion.

 

Despite his lack of fish gutting abilities (he gets them pre-gutted, a rather frivolous indulgence for a robot) he does raise a few valid points that contradict the norm of the boards.

 

In his spare time, he is trying to find Sarah Connor.

 

Anyone else got a better background story? I dare you! I double dog dare you!

 

Oh yeah - GO SENS GO!!

[Guest Artist]

treehuggingbiologist, you win the best post. I laughed out loud literally. Haha, "GO SENS GO!!".

[Guest faithnomore]

Seems like there's a lot of ganging up on the Chosen One, so I'll take his side ... sort of.

 

I do believe that people that are only doing MScs/PhDs to get into med school ARE losers. I feel this way mostly because I LIKE research, and I hate that other people slack there way through a program, basically doing the minimum amount of work, while trying to pad their CVs with fancy-sounding volunteer work. As far as I'm concerned, you should just go somewhere else and get out of my way.

 

While this may sound a bit harsh to some (all?) of you, let's consider a similar situation. Say it was really hard to get into law, but really easy to get into med school. Wouldn't you be pissed off if you had classmates slacking there way through, while spending all their time talking about how they were going to get into law? This is what life in grad school has become (at least in biological-type programs).

 

Taking another tack, I'd say that anyone enrolled in a program that they don't enjoy, that doesn't pay well, and that they have no interest in pursuing, is CLEARLY a loser. At the very least, incapable of rational thought.

 

Find something you like and do it. That's probably going to impress med schools the most anyway. If it doesn't, maybe you shouldn't be going anyway.

 

Sorry for the rant, but the people on this forum drive me insane most of the time. Picking easy majors rather than interesting ones, because you care more about GPA than enjoying your education? Fighting to get an A- raised to an A (that you clearly don't deserve)? Cheering for the SENATORS?!?

 

It's seriously making me question whether I'm going to want to talk to anyone else if I go to med school.

 

PS: I know, I know. If I don't like it, I shouldn't read the forum. Sadly, there is occasionally useful information but it tends to require a lot of sifting.

 

PPS: Yes, I am a grad student possibly going to med school, so I realize the apparent hypocrisy of my rant. Honestly, I got into research because I love it, and I intend to keep doing it at some level, regardless of what happens in the next couple weeks.

 

Alright, back to my thesis.

[Guest TimmyMax]

Hey,

 

the people on this forum drive me insane most of the time. Picking easy majors rather than interesting ones, because you care more about GPA than enjoying your education? Fighting to get an A- raised to an A (that you clearly don't deserve)? Cheering for the SENATORS?!?

 

Amen, dude. Especially to that last part!!! :rollin

 

Best of luck!

Timmy

[Guest muchdutch]

I hate that other people slack there way through a program

 

faithnomore, I'm not a grad student so this is more of a general question only partially relating to the topic: isn't grad school... hard? So if someone really wants to get into med, they can't really afford to slack so that they can achieve the good grades. Thus, those slackers who do research with you just to get into med probably won't get into med, no?

[Guest waitingINwonder]

are people that were COMPLETE slackers during undergrad, ended up with like a 3.4, then do a two year master's during which time they just happen to get lucky with their research so they get a pub or two and that somehow trumps 4 years of being complete, unmotivated losers - that is just wrong, wrong, wrong and it should be stopped!

 

And to the comment about grads doing research when they don't like research - whether or not someone like's research is often dictated by the success of their project AND since success is unpredictable, one often has to actually do a grad degree before possibly realizing that it's just not for them - one cannot be blamed for not wanting to quit.

 

So just get off your high horse about students doing research who don't really like it and getting in your way, blah, blah, blah - some people continue working despite not liking the research because they know it's gotta get done, not because it's gonna get them into med school. I definitely think these students shouldn't make medical school a topic of conversation in a lab setting but there's no need to resent someone for wanting to be a physician (feelings that are often abound in labs towards students who want to be doctors - an undeniable truth, that is often denied by grad students that know the competition is a tad stiffer than when trying to get a grad position).

[Guest Ollie]

are people that were COMPLETE slackers during undergrad, ended up with like a 3.4, then do a two year master's during which time they just happen to get lucky with their research so they get a pub or two and that somehow trumps 4 years of being complete, unmotivated losers - that is just wrong, wrong, wrong and it should be stopped!

 

OK, firstly a 3.4 (B+/high 70's average) is hardly a poor GPA. Might not get you in to some med schools, but it's likely above average at most universities. Secondly just because someone doesn't have a 3.8 it doesn't necessarily make them a loser, a slacker or unmotivated. I was on the graduate applicant review committee at UofT this year, so let me tell you their philosophy (it may surprise those of you that think UofT has an old-school attitude)

 

(Paraphrasing of the Dean of Admissions' instructions to us) Not everyone knows right out of high school what they want to do. Not everyone make the transition to university as smoothly as others. Some people are late-bloomers academically. If someone can now show academic ability and dedication through a graduate degree, then they should be given a second chance.

 

Note the stipulation about ability and dedication. So if someone just got "lucky" and wasn't truly dedicated, we will hopefully be able to tell this through what their supervisor had to say about them (Supervisor's letter is very important).

 

I know that you were likely referring to those who are intentionally slacking-off with the attitude that they can make up for it later. But let me reassure you that a person like this would be unlikely to get in because if the process works as it should, this attitude would come through. It's quite common for people to be asked at their interview why they had low grades in undergrad.

[Guest ssc427]

Another point is that it makes no sense to generalize about why people do grad degrees prior to entering med school. I had no idea I wanted to do an MD until 2/3 the way through my PhD. I suspect many others are the same. And many of the schools I interviewed at (UWO, McGill, UofM…) could care less about my grad degrees and only looked at my undergrad grades. So I could argue that I at least could have gotten these without ‘wasting’ 5 years of my life.

 

That being said, since IMGs will be permitted to apply in the first round of the residency match along with Canadian grads it no longer makes much sense killing yourself to get into a Canadian school. So yes, if you only want meds and don’t care about research don’t waste your time in grad school and go to Ireland, Australia, UK etc…

[Guest try2dstress]

I find all of the biases and underlying negative feelings towards med hopefuls in grad school to be a very interesting phenomenon. I'm currently in grad school, and a med hopeful so I've experienced a lot of the backlash both directly and through watching others. I don't take it personally and I'll tell you why.

 

I did engineering, realized I wasn't cut out to be a conventional engineer, traveled for a bit (loved it) and came back to do biomed engineering Master's after being inspired by some exposure I got to the field in my last year of undergrad and work I did abroad. When I applied/started grad school I had no intention of applying to meds. It was half way through my first year of the Master's that I decided to apply to meds (I was influenced by a variety of factors including peronal illness, self-introspection, realization that I'm not meant for research). After I disclosed my desire to apply to med school to people in my program I felt some support, but a lot of suspiciousness...almost like some people thought I had this 'master plan' all along to apply to med school and had fooled everyone into thinking I was a 'serious' grad student. I find this to be ludicrous, because their thoughts are based on pure speculation and assumptions which are entirely untrue. I also find it ridiculous to assume that everyone who goes into grad school (especially a Master's) is going to *love* research and be completely committed to it - because the truth of the matter is that research is not meant for everyone, and a Master's is the best way to figure out if it's best for you. If you decide to pursue something else (medicine or not), going to grad school has been a success because you know that academia is not where you are supposed to be - I don't think you should be faulted for that.

 

In my opinion, it's impossible to truly know 'why' someone has chosen the path that they have. If they know from the start that they are right for med school, than good for them for following their dream and going to the canadian/us/caribbean/aussie/wherever med school of their choice. If they take a longer more meandering path, its also their personal *choice* and should not undergo baseless scrutinization. I think it's important to just know who you are and why you've chosen your own particular journey rather than trying to figure out the motivation of others because in the end it will just be pure speculation.

[Guest RedBull33]

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[Guest RedBull33]

The truth is that most graduate students who intend on going to medical school, whether from the onset or midway through their studies, are excellent and productive researchers. Many of them continue with a research component during medical school, or residency, with the goal of academic medicine. By the very nature of having to have strong reference letters from their supervisors or committee members in order to be considered for medicine, they work hard and are high performers. These are the students that get accepted to medical school.

 

There will always be exceptions, but to say that they are 'slackers' or 'get lucky' with the pubs, and hence don't deserve a spot in medical school, is absurd. If you perform well in an M.Sc. or Ph.D., then all things equal, you deserve a spot in medical school as much as the next 3rd year, undergraduate applicant with a 3.95 GPA.

[Guest TheChosenOneDDS]

faithnomore hit the dot perfectly. why do it if you don't like it.

and if you ain't gonna do a good job, don't do it at all.

 

it's like people who waste time and money going to third world countries to be a slave...if you like helping people so much why don't you help the homeless people here in Toronto? again resume fillers....losers. When I go to a third world country I am helping them by being a tourist and buying their @#%$ souvenirs....why be a slave when you can be a king?

 

I believe in the motto do what you have to do...but sometimes you don't have to go all out to get it. People can bash me all they want. This account was created to be cocky. If i wanted to be serious I'd call myself. Dr. Dentist or OMFS2006, UTdent0T6, etc.