Anti-Christian Bias in Medical School

[paulos]

I wonder if the claim to support global health at UofO is only so much rhetoric? When I had an interview in 2006, they blasted me for saying I wanted to help people overseas, where the percent of qualified doctors was so low... if you're really that bigoted and small, why boast at all?

 

On the way to my interview in 2006 I recall seeing a big sign in the doorway boasting of the school's commitment to global health.

In my interview they asked my why I wanted to be a doctor, and I said I wanted to be a missionary.

You'd think they'd say, "Good,", or "That's commendable"... but no, they dug right in and started blasting me for not caring about the poor underserviced city of Ottawa!

I said, "That may be so, but it's clear that overseas, there is a far greater need," and "Aren't they people too?"

They came back with "You owe the taxpayers", blah, blah blah.

One doc said clearly I should feel obliged to work in Ottawa because they would be paying my schooling. I spent over half the interview trying to convince them about loving their neighbour (remember the good samaritan?)

Later I looked up that doc's profile, it turns out he was schooled in Toronto, yet now he practiced in Ottawa, the hypocrite!

Well, if love and decent values are now to be considered alien and evil, it just goes to show, Jesus was right when he said through St. Paul, "In the last days people will be lovers of self, lovers of money... haters of God.":(

 

I didn't feel it was a pressure-cooker mockup, they genuinely did not believe in helping poor people overseas, except perhaps, as in the words of that great ol' rockin' band, Spirit of the West, in their song about the mentally challenged, "Drop some pennies in the jar... so lock 'em up and throw away the key, boys, 'cause Mr. Jones ain't like you and me..."

 

Anyone who can read will know that to show bias against someone's application because of race, creed, gender, etc., is unlawful and unethical, yet it happens ALL THE TIME, especially against Christians. It's a sad fact that so many doctors and other medical professionals are just money-grubbing soulless hypocrites, which is why 50% of them end up abusing drugs and alcohol.

 

If you want to avoid a similar fate, keep close to God and faith, and do it for people, for love of humankind, NOT FOR MAMMON.

[JewelLeigh]

Well, if love and decent values are now to be considered alien and evil, it just goes to show, Jesus was right when he said through St. Paul, "In the last days people will be lovers of self, lovers of money... haters of God.":(

 

Anyone who can read will know that to show bias against someone's application because of race, creed, gender, etc., is unlawful and unethical, yet it happens ALL THE TIME, especially against Christians.

 

...

 

If you want to avoid a similar fate, keep close to God and faith, and do it for people, for love of humankind, NOT FOR MAMMON.

I am sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience in your interview, and from what you have said, it does sound like the interviewers were somehow not in agreeance with someone wanting to serve in the developing world - very odd.

 

At the same time though, you are extrapolating your experience to try to say there is an anti-Christian bias in medical admissions...something in my own experience I have not found to be true. I clearly stated in all of my applications that one of the major reasons for going into medicine was my faith in God and my desire to serve Him through medicine. I also discussed my faith and it's major role in my desire to practice medicine in all of my interviews. The only potentially negative thing that seemed to stem from this was in one interview I was then asked if, given my faith, would I be able/willing to treat certain patients (teenagers wanting birth control, same-sex couples, etc). Even this I felt was a reasonable question asked fairly. I was invited for an interview at 4 of the 6 schools to which I applied and was accepted at all 4 (including Ottawa). As such, I find it hard to believe that there is a glaring bias against Christians in the medical school admission process.

 

It's a sad fact that so many doctors and other medical professionals are just money-grubbing soulless hypocrites, which is why 50% of them end up abusing drugs and alcohol.

Is this really a "fact" or is it an unfair and incorrect judgement you have made based on a few bad experiences? Is that not also being a hypocrite?

 

While of course there are many physicians who are not Christians, there are very few I have come across (Christian or otherwise), in my experiences as a patient and as a medical student, who are anything like what described. The majority are the absolute opposite. On a daily basis, I am humbled by the kindness, empathy and selflessness displayed by the majority of the physicians I work with.

[paulos]

I used to attend med school, back in 1991. In our second year, they gave us a lecture about addictions, it was there that I was told the 50% statistic.

 

I am happy that you mentioned God, but did you mention JESUS?

 

'God' is not what offends, because that is a nebulous term which hypocrites love, because they think He is like them.

 

It is the NAME OF JESUS which offends, because he preached against greed, empty religion, showy hypocrisy, etc.

 

I pray you have the strength to mention Jesus now and again.

[JewelLeigh]

I used to attend med school, back in 1991. In our second year, they gave us a lecture about addictions, it was there that I was told the 50% statistic.

You did not just say this statistic, your "sad fact" was that "so many doctors and other medical professionals are just money-grubbing soulless hypocrites" - I can't imagine they taught you this in 1991 as well? Do you fail to see what a sweeping and harsh judgement this is?

 

I pray you have the strength to mention Jesus now and again.

While your prayers are appreciated, I am uneasy as the assumption they seem to make. I did not presume that because your quote at the bottom of all posts says "God" that you don't have the strength to mention Jesus. Thus, do not presume such a thing about me.

 

Perhaps it is these type of judgements and assumptions that cause people to seem biased against Christianity when it comes to you? If in the same breath you are praising Jesus and judging others, it would be hard for anyone to separate your faith from your faults as an applicant.

[paulos]

When I was accepted in 1991 to 2 schools, I was greedy, arrogant, and very young (20).

When I was rejected in 1997, 2003, 2005 and 2006, I was humbler, wiser, more experienced, and had higher scores on all my stats (94% avg. at Queen's, first in my class, numerous scholarships, 2 papers published, tons of volunteering), etc. etc. The only thing was, I mentioned Jesus.

 

Now I ask you point blank: Did you ever mention the NAME of JESUS in any application essay or interview?

 

I am not a prophet, but I would venture to guess the answer is no.

[JewelLeigh]

When I was accepted in 1991 to 2 schools, I was greedy, arrogant, and very young (20).

When I was rejected in 1997, 2003, 2005 and 2006, I was humbler, wiser, more experienced, and had higher scores on all my stats (94% avg. at Queen's, first in my class, numerous scholarships, 2 papers published, tons of volunteering), etc. etc. The only thing was, I mentioned Jesus.

Humbler, but yet you just went on to list how amazing you are and assume that your only possible fault in the eyes of the adcom was that you believe in Jesus? Wiser but yet you still claim something as ridiculous and judgemental as "so many doctors are just money-grubbing soulless hypocrites"?? Hmm..

 

Did you also consider that another major difference compared to your 1991 acceptance is the fact that you were for whatever reason unsuccessful at completing medicine the first time? Is it unreasonable that a committee would be tentative to spend a significant amount of the school's money and time in training someone who has already not completed the journey once? Regardless of why you failed to complete medical school the first time around, I think that this probably played at least a small role in your lack of success.

 

Now I ask you point blank: Did you ever mention the NAME of JESUS in any application essay or interview?

 

I am not a prophet, but I would venture to guess the answer is no.

Why would you venture to guess that the answer is no? Because you are judging me? Perhaps in the same way that you are complaining and claiming that others apparently judged you?

 

The answer is yes. God, Jesus, Christ, prayer and faith were all mentioned. My realization that medicine was the road God wanted me on came through praying to Jesus...it would be difficult to not mention His name seeing that He is my inspiration.

[AMmd]

it seems very unlikely that you were rejected (with your great stats and all) from several med schools just because you mentioned Jesus in your essay... there are alot of christans who have been accepted into med school so to say that all med schools are agaist Jesus is wrong.

what i can suggest is to think about your essay and see what kind of message you were convaying ... and work on that to improve it for next time you apply ...

also maybe you are not getting any interviews because you actually dropped out of med school to start with... so they are all thinking , "well why should we give him a second chance? "

[Jochi1543]

It's a sad fact that so many doctors and other medical professionals are just money-grubbing soulless hypocrites, which is why 50% of them end up abusing drugs and alcohol.

 

Have you ever thought that your attitude towards your potential colleagues might have anything to do with your repeated rejections?

[paulos]

If doctors are not greedy, then why do they always complain about their pay, why don't they work for less wages, why are so many supporting a privatized system, why are some considering the US as a better place to work, and how many doctors do you know who live according to their needs, not their wants?

I was in medicine, I have seen greed in the profession firsthand, and it is why there is such a high substance abuse rate.

What shall it profit someone to gain the whole world and lose their own soul?

[Satsuma]

This is the third post this individual has made with the same text.

It would seem he/she is posting and reposting just to ruffle some feathers.

 

And the post isn`t even entirely conherent imo. How does a claim to support global health degrade into anti-Christianity claims? Why wait until now, a year after said interview to complain?

 

It's a sad fact that so many doctors and other medical professionals are just money-grubbing soulless hypocrites, which is why 50% of them end up abusing drugs and alcohol.

 

Even if that were true, better that than the abuse of innocent kids we are all aware has gone on in the Catholic Church.

 

There are many opportunities at Ottawa to do work overseas, there are even students part of Christian medical groups here.

 

So if you were rejected and using your religion as the reason why, guess you are gonna have to dig a little deeper and come up with a different reason.

[Jochi1543]

 

Even if that were true, better that than the abuse of innocent kids we are all aware has gone on in the Catholic Church.

.

 

SNAP!!!!

 

 

 

I went to an Episcopalian high school and yes, one of our ministers was under police supervision after 2 male alums came out and accused him of sexual assault. While the police investigated the case thoroughly, he was unaware of the investigation. When sufficient evidence was gathered, the police arrived at his house on campus to arrest him and came upon a large quantity of cocaine and several guns in his house.

 

He was convicted of the sexual assaults as well.

 

 

Funny, the same guy who used to preach about the likes of tossing pearls before swines.

[paulos]

Last year I called one med school and asked why I had been rejected. The dean of admissions called me on my cell phone to tell me it was because one of my letters of reference mentioned that I would not be able to get along with patients because of my faith.

 

I wrote to the human rights commission, using as my argument that the school ought to have interpreted this letter with caution, as it showed discrimination against constitutional rights.

 

It was as if the letter had said, "This student won't be able to communicate with patients because he is Chinese/ she is a woman", etc, etc. The commission accepted my complaint as legitimate, and I was set to take that school to court, but on the advice of a lawyer, I withdrew, because even though retaliation for a charge of discrimination is illegal, it was likely to occur, in the form of blacklisting.

 

On the other hand, there is the case of a senior citizen who was rejected from med school because of her age. She took them to court for discrimination and won, and she got to go to med school.

 

[Jochi1543]

 

It was as if the letter had said, "This student won't be able to communicate with patients because he is Chinese/ she is a woman", etc, etc.

 

No, this is not true. This would be as if that letter had said "This student won't be able to communicate with patients because he's Chinese, believes the Chinese are inherently superior to all other races and nationalities, will center all his conversations around being Chinese, and will attempt to convert everyone in his path to the Chinese culture and mode of behavior."

[paulos]

Jochi, apparently you do not know the truth yet... I was once a muslim myself, then I tried Buddhism, Hinduism, various psychologies and substances, but they were unable to fill the deepest desire of my heart.

 

Only Jesus could do that, He is the reason why we were created.

 

Consider, if He really is the way to heaven, and the cross pays for our sins, wouldn't Islam be wrong, for denying the cross? It is not bigotry on my part, but rather compassion which motivates me to share... you would be so happy with God's love in Jesus! Try it!

[Jochi1543]

And the proselytizing starts.....

[paulos]

i was like you once, Jochi, believe me, i thought 'those born-agains' were nuts, but it really, really really is the truth. don't miss out on something better than medicine- heaven- for fear.

[Jochi1543]

Anyone else a sudden born-again devotee of the "ignore user" function in your CP?

[paulos]

Maybe some folks do claim to have a purpose in life, that's good, it shows what we want to give of ourselves.

But the gospel, the good news- is that God wants to give to us, to bring us healing in every dimension of life, in heart, in mind, in body, in relationships, in the things that really matter.

[The Bunny]

If doctors are not greedy, then why do they always complain about their pay, why don't they work for less wages, why are so many supporting a privatized system, why are some considering the US as a better place to work, and how many doctors do you know who live according to their needs, not their wants?

 

I think that having a crap load of student debts to pay off is a huge factor.

 

I was in medicine, I have seen greed in the profession firsthand, and it is why there is such a high substance abuse rate.

 

Actually, I just finished reading an interesting research report on doctors in Quebec who are substance abusers (as well as those that had left work for reasons of burn-out) using work-psychosocial methods and they seem to show that pressure to work long hours within a resource-strapped system where the care that docotrs were taught to deliver cannot actually be done in the real world is the number one factor. It leads to a state they termed "hyper-work" that is overall unhealthy psychologically and has devastating effects on doctors and there families. No where in this report did they mention greed. What methods did you use to come to that conclusion?

Just curious.

[ploughboy]

Anyone else a sudden born-again devotee of the "ignore user" function in your CP?

 

Wow, I didn't realize we had an "ignore user" function. Cool!

 

pb

[paulos]

There are two masters in a person's life, potentially, you must choose one.

 

First, money. If you love it, you will be, as Howard Hughes said of himself, "The most miserable person that ever lived." Evidence of mammon-worship includes depression, anxiety, and every kind of pleasure-seeking, from fornication/adultery, to drugs and alcohol.

 

Then there is God. Whoever loves God will not have the degree of burnout and stress that other professionals do, and if their anxiety ever gets too high, they will not drink, but pray, sing and go for lovely walks in the woods to meet their maker, who loves them.

 

In the middle of these two are some wayward souls, lost sheep wanting to return to their father's house, where they will be most welcome indeed, as I know, having come out of years of drug abuse myself.

[Albt]

Interesting! I do not think that anyone should be denied admissions based on religion obiously. Did you talk to the school directly and this is what they told you? Anyways as far as the money and greed thing goes I would probably agree that is the root cause of all pain and suffering. However, I do not believe that Jesus is the only person I will get salvation through.

[paulos]

Muhammad said to Abu-Bakr, his follower, when asked if he could provide salvation like the Christian god, that he himself had no guarantee in the afterlife.

 

Buddha did not say that God even existed, for him it was a matter of extinguishing all desire, both good and bad. Sort of like turning off the lights completely, and he did not recommend his own name as a means to this state.

 

No religious figure of note said that they themselves were the key to eternal security, except Jesus Christ.

 

I have tried many religions, but Jesus is a force, a reality, while the others are mere chimeras.

 

This is not bigotry, it is my report to you as an empiricist who has in truth, experimented in the laboratory of religion extensively.

 

Only Jesus saves.

 

A good analogy would be if someone said, "Doctor, you can't possibly believe that surgery can cure appendicitis, that's rather small-minded of you. My cousin's neighbour's dog's groomer had it, and she stood on her head for three minutes and it was healed! If you don't recommend this to your patients, I'm going to make sure they take away your license."

 

Faith is not a matter of opinion, it is based on reasonable facts.

 

Try reading Josh McDowell's "Evidence that Demands a Verdict", about an athiest law student who ended up on his knees in prayer, after taking the evidence to task, or CS Lewis's "Surprised by Joy".

 

Christianity is not a religion for fools, in fact the brightest people, in my experience, are Christians. They may not get their name in the papers, but that is because they serve God, not money.

[kitty]

Jochi, apparently you do not know the truth yet... I was once a muslim myself, then I tried Buddhism, Hinduism, various psychologies and substances, but they were unable to fill the deepest desire of my heart.

 

Only Jesus could do that, He is the reason why we were created.

 

Consider, if He really is the way to heaven, and the cross pays for our sins, wouldn't Islam be wrong, for denying the cross? It is not bigotry on my part, but rather compassion which motivates me to share... you would be so happy with God's love in Jesus! Try it!

 

Paulos,

It's great that you have finally found something to be passionate about but don't you think that you might offend people by claiming that their religions are "Wrong"? As future physicians, we should be able to work with and treat people who have different worldviews than we do without trying to convert them into our beliefs. Culture, life experiences, and biology all play role in shaping our views and just because your faith has brought you happiness in life does not mean that it will do so for other individuals. Do what is good for you but please try to respect other religions as well.

 

Good luck with your application!

 

kitty

[Discrimination]

Hello everyone,

 

I have been a long time forum reader, but decided to sign up to give my input.

 

I can not help but believe that Canada has quickly turned into a secular, anti-Christian society. In Canada, the worst thing you can be is a white, Christian male.

 

At EVERY medical interview, you get the standard abortion question and you KNOW if you say that you won't perform abortion due to being Christian you will be rejected.

 

Anyone else remember the student at U of Manitoba who was EXPELLED from medical school because he wouldn't perform an abortion.

 

It is sad to see that feminism and political correctness have destroyed the great Christian country that Canada used to be.