sucotai Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 sry i have to rant:( looking at all those great stats getting rejected is really frightening, it's kinda scary to wonder wut kind of competition there must be involved....i used to think an omsas gpa of 3.8 is not bad, then looking at all those 3.9++'s () make me cringe.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 sry i have to rant:( looking at all those great stats getting rejected is really frightening, it's kinda scary to wonder wut kind of competition there must be involved....i used to think an omsas gpa of 3.8 is not bad, then looking at all those 3.9++'s () make me cringe.... It can seem that way, but the stat postings are biased I think. People with lower stats tend not to post them, and I don't think the board poster are particular representative of the general premed population either. If seeing people with higher stats encourages you to get higher grades -great! If not remember lots of people get in with "lower stats" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shim Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 That's what I thought too, but universities tend to publish very high stats average. How can this be biased ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatonekid Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 That's what I thought too, but universities tend to publish very high stats average. How can this be biased ? Because schools publish the mean, not the median. The mean grade is highly influenced by outliers. Therefore, a few people with 4.0 GPAs will push the mean up to a higher value, which may not truly represent the number of people who get in with 3.8X GPAs. To the OP- don't get discouraged. I can tell you from first hand experinece that I know more people (in real life, not on these boards) who get in with a GPA of 3.8X than with 3.9X. Just work hard to get good grades, be involved in extracurriculars, and try to be happy with what you do/study. Try not to look at grades, and use this forum as a way to get info about medical school application processes in general, than to use the stats of others to self-evaluate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 That's what I thought too, but universities tend to publish very high stats average. How can this be biased ? hmmm you wouldn't think they would be! Ok, lets get out the numbers then and take a look at this. Can't seem to find anything specific at afmc, but so far I found Torontos published GPA info: 2009 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 N/A 3.89 3.9 3.87 3.87 3.83 3.84 3.82 3.85 Anyone know if that is the GPA AFTER course droping? I would think I would be as that is how Toronto computes GPA. In any case the average appears to usually around 3.85 (going up in recent years). No published ones greater than 3.9 though. The raw GPA would be lower if those posted averages are after course dropping. We know that Queens cut off is around 3.75-3.8 (I believe, feel free to dispute this ), and after that is pure interview, so we can set that GPA down there. manitoba seems to be 4.2 out of 4.5 which is roughly equivalent to 3.8 out of 4.0. British Columbia reports statistics on percentages. Last two year average of the class was 85.80, and overall 83.15. Now that isn't the same as GPA as we know one crappy course smacks GPA around more than average, but it give you an idea of the average student at least. Thats what I have so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deeman101 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Because schools publish the mean, not the median. The mean grade is highly influenced by outliers. Therefore, a few people with 4.0 GPAs will push the mean up to a higher value, which may not truly represent the number of people who get in with 3.8X GPAs. Works much better the other way though. Take a look at Mac's GPA stats. There are a few outliers at <3.7, some even below 3.5, but the largest subset of admissions go to people with GPAs >3.9. The second largest is 3.8-3.9. Yet the mean is ~3.86. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shim Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 McGill students from CEGEP had an average R score of 36. At least that's what it's written on their website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveSense Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Also keep in mind that the top 10% do less well in life than the second 10% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 McGill students from CEGEP had an average R score of 36. At least that's what it's written on their website. My turn to ask a question - what exactly is an R score and relatively speaking how good is a 36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shim Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 R score = [(difference to the average / standard deviation) + 5] x 5 + (group's high school marks - 75) / 14 but I was waiting for the answer of a Quebec resident instead. Concerning university, deeman101 seems to make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Yoda_ Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 My turn to ask a question - what exactly is an R score and relatively speaking how good is a 36 To answer on the "how good is a 36" part: an R score is considered to be on 40. So 36 is relatively good. I put relatively because I had a 36.5 back in the days and, though I worked to get this grade, I did not work that hard (no all-nighters, no no-life, etc.). I would say, judging from my experience, that [35;37] represents the majority of med students getting in med school directly from Cegep. Above 37 is quite hard to get and, though this is rare, a few students get over 40 (possible using the formula Shim posted but extremely rare; no one from my promotion had over 40, one had 38.X and the rest were below 38). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 R score = [(difference to the average / standard deviation) + 5] x 5 + (group's high school marks - 75) / 14 but I was waiting for the answer of a Quebec resident instead. Concerning university, deeman101 seems to make a point. well that is going to take a while to digest! Clearly I don't know the Quebec system very well Glad I asked! I have always thought that a 3.85 is pretty competitive - actually that is the score our "what are my chances" link says is. Seemed to mesh with the averages posted as well. This is a good verification thread though to see if that is correct! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 My turn to ask a question - what exactly is an R score and relatively speaking how good is a 36 I cannot tell you "exactly" but let's put it this way. With decent ECs, an R score of 36 at CEGEP will/should get you directlly into med school. At McGill, it will get you into the one year university pre-med and on the basis that you maintain a certain grade that year, you are guaranteed entry into the med program without application. It is the equivalent on being given a "you win all the properties" card in monopoly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSmith19 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Alot of times that is the new weighted GPA (posted on the site and on the admissions stats page). Dropping a full 4 courses (like U of T) can drastically change a GPA. One could go from a GPA of like 3.4 to 4.0 if they had some low courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Alot of times that is the new weighted GPA (posted on the site and on the admissions stats page). Dropping a full 4 courses (like U of T) can drastically change a GPA. One could go from a GPA of like 3.4 to 4.0 if they had some low courses. thats what I thought, so Toronto (considered a high GPA school I would say) has in a sense misleadingly high GPA levels posted on their site. So far nothing has convinced me a GPA of mid 3.8s is non-competitive, which is probably what the OP was concerned about. Still open to contary evidence though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatonekid Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Works much better the other way though. Take a look at Mac's GPA stats. There are a few outliers at <3.7, some even below 3.5, but the largest subset of admissions go to people with GPAs >3.9. The second largest is 3.8-3.9. Yet the mean is ~3.86.I agree. I think that the median is a better indication of GPA than mean. I think medical schools should make a box plot every year of the GPA of those who were accepted. Then we would have a better understanding of the median, upper & lower quartiles, and outliers. But of course they would never do that, since they obviously like to keep their applicants guessing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w8kg6 Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Also keep in mind that the top 10% do less well in life than the second 10% This is a fallacy. Academic performance and 'performance at life' are not mutually exclusive. That idea is usually used as a crutch by people with sub-par GPAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sucotai Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 thx for the confidence boost guy, even tho i dun have "mid-3.8s" but only a 3.82 as my undergrad GPA, yet i really dun wanna do a graduate degree... speaking of which, does doing a grad degree greatly enhance ur chance? i heard some schools (like mac?) may give u a slight boost of undergrad gpa, but that's little and only apply to few schools, and schools like UT view ur files separately, which may be good or bad depending on ur performance and the grad competition u'r up against? someone enlighten me please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 thx for the confidence boost guy, even tho i dun have "mid-3.8s" but only a 3.82 as my undergrad GPA, yet i really dun wanna do a graduate degree... speaking of which, does doing a grad degree greatly enhance ur chance? i heard some schools (like mac?) may give u a slight boost of undergrad gpa, but that's little and only apply to few schools, and schools like UT view ur files separately, which may be good or bad depending on ur performance and the grad competition u'r up against? someone enlighten me please On paper it doesn't not provide a radical improvement in an app except perhaps at Toronto (which review everything, very complete application process there). Personally I think it does a good job of improving EC, getting research done, better LOTR, and just general polish - and of course sets up backup plans. Doesn't overcome low GPA grades, but helps in many other ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratatat Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 RE: grad degrees, Queens says: Applicants who have completed a graduate degree and meet the MCAT cut but are slightly below the GPA cut will be reviewed on an individual basis by the Admissions Committee. http://meds.queensu.ca/undergraduate/prospective_students/method_of_selection I don't know how much 'slightly' is, but Queens seemingly does offer some benefit for cats with Masters degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooty Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 thx for the confidence boost guy, even tho i dun have "mid-3.8s" but only a 3.82 as my undergrad GPA, yet i really dun wanna do a graduate degree... speaking of which, does doing a grad degree greatly enhance ur chance? i heard some schools (like mac?) may give u a slight boost of undergrad gpa, but that's little and only apply to few schools, and schools like UT view ur files separately, which may be good or bad depending on ur performance and the grad competition u'r up against? someone enlighten me please i got in with a gpa just slightly higher than yours. depending on the distribution of your grades year-by-year, you'd probably make the cuts for a a couple schools, if not more. keep in mind the high gpas you see are not from a random sample. keep your head up. i think you'll do alright. go and bust your ass on some killer ECs and apply to scholarships to boost your non-academic side of your application and you'll be competitive enough to get an interview or two. and a grad degree helps a little but does not offset a terrible undergrad gpa, which you do not have. those with terrible undergrads are better off doing another undergrad instead of doing a grad degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaveSense Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 My 2yr GPA was like 3.6 and I got an interview during my PhD RE: grad degrees, Queens says: Applicants who have completed a graduate degree and meet the MCAT cut but are slightly below the GPA cut will be reviewed on an individual basis by the Admissions Committee. http://meds.queensu.ca/undergraduate/prospective_students/method_of_selection I don't know how much 'slightly' is, but Queens seemingly does offer some benefit for cats with Masters degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewfieMike Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 This is a fallacy. Academic performance and 'performance at life' are not mutually exclusive. That idea is usually used as a crutch by people with sub-par GPAs. haha yeah, or don't forget the "I pity those nerds who have 4.0's. Too bad they'll never have the social skills like I have with my 3.6" *****, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anna8 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 Can you clarify things for me, what exactly is a "terrible" GPA? Below 3.8? 3.7? I hope a 3.75 (out of 4.0) isn't considered "terrible". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamP Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 The sad fact is you can get an 84 in every class in undergrad (not an easy feat (esp. in hardcore eng/sci)), and be basically SOL for every med school in Ontario, even as a IP applicant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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