Is the medical profession right for me?

[binbin]

Is the medical profession right for me?

I am questioning if the medical profession is for me. I am going to share what I think in GREAT details. I will talk about:

 

a) What I like

What I do not particularly like

c) Conclusion - what do you think? (And, please ignore the first few replies of this thread. I have said something sensitive and I am sorry.)

 

(Minor sections, you are welcome to SKIP them if you are too tired to finish my post)

1) An overestimate of my lifetime expense and the required yearly income (SKIP THIS IF YOU FIND THIS OFFENSIVE)

2) The alternatives I am thinking of (SKIP IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED)

3) Summary

 

I hope everyone can help me out and share his/her opinions. I think everyone in this forum is smart too. Thanks!

 

I am looking for constructive opinions. I still have some soul searching to do, but a little guidance would be helpful.

About myself:

I have a bachelor degree in math from Canada. I have 34 A’s out of 38 courses; GPA is 88% (or 3.85 / 4.00 weighted in Canada). I am 22 now. I feel very insecure for not knowing what to pick as a career. I have seen my friends, which have worked less harder than me on academics, that have gotten into medicine , dentistry, and grad schools in famous universities (ex. LSE, ivy-league. etc.) . They all seems to know what to do. As for me, having worked just as hard as them (if not harder) in university, I still do not know what to do!

 

(Note, I have only said academics. Certainly, my friends have EC (extra-curricular activities) that are better than mine! They are certainly very brave, and are willing to face the negatives of their chosen professions.)

 

Hence, I really only have myself to blame for not knowing what to do.

 

So, I hope everyone here can help me out.

 

 

What I think I will like about med:

a) I enjoy helping people.

I want to be in a career where I am needed, and that people will respect my contribution. I also enjoy the satisfaction that comes along. But, I am NOT looking for life saving experience; I would be just as happy doing consultations to help my patients. I understand there are other jobs that can help people. I will look more into them.

 

Respect

(I don’t discriminate people based on their professions. I respect people based on how nice they are. So, I even respect some janitors more than a few of my professors in university. Sadly, this is not what everyone thinks. And, I do care about my social status / image in front of others.)

 

c) High income potential and job security

I want to give my future family a comfortable lifestyle and have tried to calculate the lifetime (from age 25 to age 100) living expense of an upper middle class lifestyle in Vancouver, Canada. (It is not likely to live till 100, but I would rather overestimate than to underestimate).

 

In summary, I have calculated that in order to maintain a comfortable lifestyle in Vancouver, I will need 160k per year before tax.

Some of you might think this is high. I totally think so too, but this is because doctors only start earning "real" money after around 30. 160k is actually an overestimate for reasons that I will describe in the other sections. And certainly, doctors should be able to net 160k with no problem.

 

If I chose other career and have my professional life start at 26, then I might need 130k per year pre tax. (again, an overestimate)

 

What I do not particularly like about med: (NOTE: I did not say HATE)

a) The job is "not clean". I am a squeamish person (even though I am a guy), cannot stand any violent movies, and have experienced vasovagal syncopes. I have a First Aid certificate, but I do not think I can deal with trauma. I would seriously hate seeing and treating patients with trauma conditions. However, I think I will be ok with treating minor injuries (a bruise or a cut…). I read that about 10% of medical students have experienced fainting in their education. I think the job of a family physician is "relatively clean" too. Or, am I being mistaken?

 

What medical specialties are “relatively” clean? And not too competitive? (I have to be really realistic here. I have seen the stats. About less than 20% of medical students get matched into the... "ROAD" + other specialties. I am not saying they are "clean". But, being in the top 20% out of a class of very smart people can be a problem)

 

I heard the lifestyle is pretty stressful. I know that medical residents can work more than 100 hours per week. But, this is ok to me as long as the lifestyle can get back to normal after the training. By normal I mean: 50 hours per week and not too stressful. (ie. I don’t want to deal with too many emergencies).

 

What medical specialties give good lifestyle after training?

 

c) A very minor issue: I do not particularly like (NOR HATE) biological sciences. So, there is a high chance I will find “learning” medicine boring. In undergrad, I like math and economics more. But, practicing medicine and helping people would certainly be much more satisfying than solving math/econ problems. For me, most of the fun would probably comes from interacting with patients (not too disgusting though)

 

Aside (skip if you are not interested):

 

I did a major in math as a GPA booster. However, I can excel in life science courses if I wanted do, just that I won’t particularly enjoy (NOR HATE) them. Hence, I don’t think I will be interested in doing medical researches for my career. (But, doing a few to get the specialty I want is probably ok.)

 

Conclusion:

 

I am sorry if I sounded like a “gold-digger” in this post. That is not my intent.

 

Having a meaningful career (ie. helping people) AND a high income are both equally important to me. Otherwise, I would not be even thinking of medicine. I have a family doctor who also does deliveries. I do not think you will believe this, but his office is adorned with over hundreds of baby photos. Every time I sit and wait in his office, I always remind myself to pursue careers that are as meaningful as his.

 

Unfortunately, being a squeamish person who does not particularly like learning biological sciences, my career choice is very limited. (Please do not misunderstand me though; I still get A- in my biology-related courses. I actually took some nutrition courses, and I really enjoyed them because they were practical. After all, health is more important than money.)

 

Also, being a visible minority, I believe it is very hard to be successful in law and politics.

 

 

So, do you think the medical profession is for me?

Have you met any doctors that did not particularly like "learning medicine", but ended up doing well (and happy) with their practice?

 

I understand there are pros and cons to each career. Sooner or later, I will have to find one and stick it out.

 

Thank you for your help !

 

(You are welcome to skip the following if you are too tired to finish my post)

 

An overestimate of my lifetime expenses (SKIP AHEAD IF YOU FIND IT OFFENSIVE)

 

House + car in a major city (I live in Vancouver, Canada) = 1m (Real estimate would be 0.8 m in the suburb)

 

(Housing affordability is going down. But, this is unstoppable as Vancouver is becoming a larger city. So, we will just have to face the reality. If you look at NY, LA and SF, then you will see their house prices are pretty crazy...)

 

2 kids in the future = 0.8m (more like 0.6m if I do not spoil my kids too much)

Food for myself ($40/day) = 1m (more like .7m if I cook more on my own)

Self Entertainment (10k / year) = 0.8m (I think 3 family vacations in a year can cost 10k)

 

Total: 3.6m CAD or 2.8m CAD(I assume my future wife can take care of her own food with her own part time work income)

(Note: This number does not take into account of inflation. However, I do assume that my job can keep up with inflation.)

 

The income that I need:

Assuming I want to retire at 55 and work part time till 60, I do NOT think there are a lot of careers that can provide me with 3.6 or 2.8m CAD. Now, I will divide 3.6m by 25 years (cause…doctors only start making real money at around age 30). = 144k after tax = 220 k before tax. (65% tax rate in Canada)

 

In summary, I need a NET income of 220 k CAD (or 160k for the MORE REALISTIC scale) per year (…if I start earning "real" money at age 30). This number should keep up with inflation as well.

 

 

(Again, 160k per year is an overestimate. I know I will have passive income from rental properties and investment. My wife will have some income. Some jobs have pensions too. There are tax free saving accounts. I can also work part time up to 65 if I have my own medical practice. Also, I am a very frugal person. But, just to be on the safe side, I would only consider medicine and the following careers. (To be discussed later))

 

My alternatives (I am also considering the following as opposed to medicine)

 

a) To be a professor in Economics.

I like Economics very much. But, to excel in academia, a person has to be good in creating knowledge. I am not that smart… I can only learn, analyze and apply.

 

To be a pharmacist.

They start earning money sooner. If I chose to study pharmacy, then I will start working at around age 25 to 26 for me. There are graduate entry programs in Australia that are 2 years long. Then, I can come back to Canada. 130k/yr at a 50hour week should be no problem. Plus, I believe their jobs have pension, as opposed to being self-employed with your own medical practice.

 

The job of the pharmacists is certainly very “clean” compared to doctors/dentists, and certainly very “easy and laid back” compared to the alternatives I listed here. The only concerns I have would be:

1) It could be boring and repetitive. (I worked in a pharmacy for 3 months)

2) Lack of respect?

 

 

c) To be a dentist.

There is no residency, so I can start working at around 27 to 28. The only concerns I have would be:

 

1) The job is again.. not clean, but I think I can handle it. A dentist job is certainly more disgusting than that of a family physician, but no where near than that of a surgeon.

 

2) I do not think I particularly like (nor hate) mouth. The medicine field is certainly a lot broader. Then again, I do not particularly like (nor hate) about "learning

medicine"

 

d) Enter into business/finance.

This would be a riskier path with no guaranteed job. And, I do not get to help people. Very hard path as well, but certainly doable if I were to put in as much effort into it as I would be doing with medical/dental school. (To be honest, if every medical student were to put in as much effort into playing sports (at an early age) as he/she would have with med school, then I think these students would have already became professional athletes…..perhaps… =P)

 

Anyway, to enter in finance, I would get a Master degree from LSE (London School of Economics, which is a target school for investment banks in Europe and Asia) Now, I have good grades and letters from my Econ. profs, so getting into LSE should be no problem. I also know I would enjoy learning about economics more than medicine. However, getting a job in investment bank might be a problem. (Again, it is a riskier path. I really admire my friends that can get a i-bank job in the current recession…pretty crazy if you ask me…). Now, even if I get the job, I might not enjoy working 80 hours in a cut-throat environment.

 

I am a relatively “laid back” person and hate competing with my coworkers. I am not an aggressive person. However, I would not mind working 80 hours as a medical resident if I can live normally again after the training.

 

Aside (skip ahead if not interested)

My friend once told me the following analogy:

 

To succeed in finance/sales, it is similar to taking a course tied to a bell curve. If all your coworkers get 99% and you only get 90%, then you will get fired.

 

For jobs that are based on procedures where the supply of qualified professionals is limited (such as medicine /dentistry/pharmacy), it is more like taking a pass/fail course. If you can perform the procedures, then you get the money. If not, then you just refer them out. And, most qualified professionals would probably be able to perform the required procedures in their job. Hence, the security of these jobs is much higher.

 

Do you think this analogy is true?

 

 

Summary:

In summary, I am questioning if the medical profession is for me. If yes, what kind of specialties would you recommend? If no, which of the above alternatives would you recommend? Am I correct with my assumptions about each career path?

 

I may be complaining a lot here. So, please forgive me. But, I really want to make an informed decision. I understand there are pros and cons to each career. Sooner or later, I will have to pick one and stick it out.

 

Thank you for your helps and wonderful insights!

[EricCartman]

oh dear lord, someone please publish coles or cliffs notes for this thread. aside from a minimum 10 character requirement, i think there should be a limit for page long essays.

 

i hope this thread is a troll...

 

on a serious note, i think you are using medicine or dentistry as a gateway to early, financially successful retirement. i'd say go in dentistry...work hard and establish your own practice, retire at the age of 55 and just manage your dental practice ie hire other people to do your dirty work. you mentioned that women don't like men with no future...dentistry will get you plenty of chicks (no disrespect to golddiggers out there)

[abcwxyz]

I think that this post is bizarre. And I don't think it's right for you. I'm sure people will point out why.

[Renin]

However, I would not mind working 80 hours as a medical resident if I can live normally again after the training.

 

WHAT? 80 hrs? You'd be lucky to get 80hrs... some residents log like 120.

[Microbiodude]

I think what you have said you will like about med will eventualyl not be enough to keep you satisfied.

 

1) Helping people: Every profession in society is designed to help someone or another, if it wasn't helpful it would not exist...think about it. Also, in medicine you will have to want to help without being asked, if you don't intrinsically feel the need to help/ volunteer than medicine may not be right for you. Even if you do like helping people.

 

2) Respect: There are a lot of other professions where you can make more money if you dedicate the same amount of time you do in medicine. The title may also give you respect, but with the rise of the information age you will see that the respect for docs is slowly declining (even though it is propably still pretty high?)

 

3) Income: Again, for the amount of training/ education, responsibility shouldered and hours dedicated per week...you will feel grossly underpaid.

 

Lastly, other than GPA are your ECs strong enough to get into medicine? Some things to chew on.

 

Alternate Career Recommendtions: Not entirely sure, but I think you can aim for Econ Professor. Learning, analyzing and applying is what all professors do. They ask key questions, learn from the past, analyze present data and apply it to come up with new ideas (knowledge generation). If you are a good critical thinker who can be self-directed, this could work for you. Good luck.

[Madz25]

Honestly, nobody can tell you if medicine is the right profession for you. It looks like you've been thinking about it a lot. How can strangers on an internet forum give you any input about what's right for YOU when you, yourself, aren't able to do this? You have to make this decision yourself.

[The Law]

Honestly, nobody can tell you if medicine is the right profession for you. It looks like you've been thinking about it a lot. How can strangers on an internet forum give you any input about what's right for YOU when you, yourself, aren't able to do this? You have to make this decision yourself.

 

x2.

 

I appreciate that you're looking for some assistance, but honestly, this is something nobody will be able to answer for you. You gotta do some soul searching.

[A-Stark]

No, it's not right for you. The squeamishness is possibly a deal breaker - do you faint at the sight of blood? That's not to say that one can't overcome such things. Spending time in the anatomy lab becomes much, much easier with time.

 

Surgery, incidentally, is awesome, and even though I'd thought that anything on the face would bother me, it really hasn't so far. Trauma's pretty cool too, especially stuff seen on the plastics service.

 

Anyway, you should (a) stop ****ing worrying about lifetime expenses and ( recognize that studying math does not make you intrinsically smarter. Pick a career you like and you'll be able to make things work. It's not as if most people in Vancouver make 220k per year, whatever appearances may suggest. As for studying medicine, yes, there is a lot of memorization, but it's paired with no shortage of problem solving. The intellectual challenge is sorting through reams of information and knowledge while applying your thinking to Real World things rather than arbitrary abstractions.

 

House in a major city (I live in Vancouver, Canada. And, I am not interested in living in the rural. No offence, but Canada is a boring and cold country. I came from East Asia where life is much more vibrant, happier and warm)

 

Yeah, um, screw off. This "no offence" crap is such BS and Vancouver is a soulless, culture-less, socially stratified, and snobby city that's pretty (west of Cambie anyway) and has nice weather, but little else. Then again, people in big cities don't seem all that happy anyhow.

[Jochi1543]

No offence, but Canada is a boring and cold country. I came from East Asia where life is much more vibrant, happier and warm

 

No offense, but maybe you should pack your **** and go back to East Asia.

[binbin]

Hey, thank you everyone for their comments.

 

Some of them are harsh, but I still appreciate them for your help.

 

I know I have more soul searching to do for myself, but I could use a little bit of help.

 

Some comments:

1) I did not say doctors are stupid. They are smart in my opinion. Just that, I believe the researchers (regardless of their fields) are smarter.

 

2) As I say ... 220 k is an overestimate. A more real estimate is 160k. Even then that is an overestimate. So, I am sorry.

[w8kg6]

1) I did not say doctors are stupid. They are smart in my opinion. Just that, I believe the researchers (regardless of their fields) are smarter.

 

You've got a lot of learning to do before either will be an option you should consider pursuing. The only determinant that controls whether a person goes into medical research or applied medicine is their own motivations, which are independent of intelligence. What your argument effectively states is that 'more intelligent people will pursue research, while stupider people pursue applied fields'. Get your head on straight, kid. It'll save us, and anyone you come across in the real world a headache.

 

a) I enjoy helping people.

 

Respect

 

c) High income potential and job security

 

 

 

 

You're getting into meds so that you can help people, you'll have prestige, and you'll make money. Of these 3 reasons, the latter 2 are taboo, and first is the equivalent of a 5 year old child saying he wants to be a fireman because he likes the shiny red truck. You'll help people as a lawyer, you'll make money, and you'll have prestige. Same goes for an engineer, as well as a plethora of other fields. What makes meds so special? From reading your post, this definitely isn't the field for you.

[binbin]

Hey, I did not say that.

 

There are smart people in both fields. I was trying to say: research based job will "likely" require a higher intellectual level. But, I do have respect for both groups.

[EricCartman]

Hey, I did not say that.

 

There are smart people in both fields. I was trying to say: research based job will "likely" require a higher intellectual level. But, I do have respect for both groups.

 

i don't know, ever tried diagnosing disease from a collection of vague signs and symptoms? not easy..requires some head scratching as much as a researcher i would say. not to mention that you have limited time when making a diagnosis...while research could go on for a lifetime...

[binbin]

Hey Malkynn,

 

Thanks for your honest reply. I know this is a pre med forum. Do you know which forum I should go to in order to get more help?

[rmorelan]

Hey, I did not say that.

 

There are smart people in both fields. I was trying to say: research based job will "likely" require a higher intellectual level. But, I do have respect for both groups.

 

I should just point that often they are the SAME group actually. A good number of doctors do research, its one of the things that make the field interesting

[Renin]

There ARE people who get into medical school, then decide it's not for them, you know

[NewfieMike]

this thread is actually too easy to flame that it's not even worth the time to type it all out

[binbin]

Hey Renin,

 

I know what you are saying. This is the biggest fear I am having now.

 

To everyone,

 

I know my post was long. But I thought, the more that I share, the higher quality of help that people might give me. (Apparently, this is not true.....)

 

Anyway, thank you to those who replied.

[AdamP]

I think radiology is a pretty clean spec., you'll still be rotating around other more gross based placements as a clerk and intern

 

lol and i love w8s firetruck analogy, bartenders help people too...

[JeraJaclyn]

Hey, from what you have written it doesn't sound like med school is right for you. You seem to be passionate about numbers though, maybe economics professor?

 

Here are some reasons why I don't think you should be a doctor:

1. You don't seem to be interested in the field of medicine at all (hate life sciences, hate normal bodily functions, don't want to be stressed, very little initiative, not able to do first aid)

2. Your reasons for being in medicine will ultimately let you down. Don't go into medicine for money. You will not make enough compared to the amount of hours and stress you have to deal with. Don't do it for respect, medicine (to me) is about serving mankind, not about being the best person in society. Now helping people is noble, but you can do that in many, many other ways that will ultimately be more satisfying for you.

 

I hope this helps, good luck with your decision.

 

-Jera

[xi88]

The job is disgusting. I am a squeamish person (even though I am a guy), cannot stand any violent movies, and have experienced vasovagal syncopes.

 

I have a First Aid certificate, but I do not think I can perform any of those in real life.

 

I would seriously hate seeing and treating patients with trauma conditions.

 

If this is really what you feel about being a doctor, then you're not right for the job.

 

 

I live in Vancouver, Canada. And, I am not interested in living in the rural. No offence, but Canada is a boring and cold country. I came from East Asia where life is much more vibrant, happier and warm

 

wow...then why are you here?

 

 

I know my post was long. But I thought, the more that I share, the higher quality of help that people might give me. (Apparently, this is not true.....)

 

It wasnt the length of your post that was the problem...

[future_doc]

binbin, law in a top lawfirm or investment banking is for you. Either will give you everything you are looking for, and more. Assuming you are personable, intelligent, a good communicator and a problem solver thinking quickly on your feet, the hardest of the process is landing the right position once you make yourself qualified. Med ain't for you. Good luck.

[apache]

i can understand where he's coming from, every individual learns to enjoy different things, theres been times where i've hated living here and times where ive thought it's wonderful, it all depends on your worldview and what you can find beauty in (some people enjoy sitting in their back yard staring off into the sky, some people enjoy the fine arts, some people enjoy giant parades).

 

No, it's not right for you. The squeamishness is possibly a deal breaker - do you faint at the sight of blood? That's not to say that one can't overcome such things. Spending time in the anatomy lab becomes much, much easier with time.

 

Surgery, incidentally, is awesome, and even though I'd thought that anything on the face would bother me, it really hasn't so far. Trauma's pretty cool too, especially stuff seen on the plastics service.

 

Anyway, you should (a) stop ****ing worrying about lifetime expenses and ( recognize that studying math does not make you intrinsically smarter. Pick a career you like and you'll be able to make things work. It's not as if most people in Vancouver make 220k per year, whatever appearances may suggest. As for studying medicine, yes, there is a lot of memorization, but it's paired with no shortage of problem solving. The intellectual challenge is sorting through reams of information and knowledge while applying your thinking to Real World things rather than arbitrary abstractions.

 

 

 

Yeah, um, screw off. This "no offence" crap is such BS and Vancouver is a soulless, culture-less, socially stratified, and snobby city that's pretty (west of Cambie anyway) and has nice weather, but little else. Then again, people in big cities don't seem all that happy anyhow.

[binbin]

I do not faint at the sight of blood. I got over that already. More like, I think I will faint if I see patients with trauma conditions.

 

Even then, I have seen a study saying that about 10% of medical students have experienced fainting in their education.

 

About living in Canada:

 

I think Canada is a great country, but certainly not the best among other developed nations. If you came from another country or have had the opportunity to live in another one for a few years, then I think you will understand my view.

 

Why is Canada great:

a) multicultural : I think people here have a very high tolerance for the visible minorities

outdoors (Although I am not an outdoor person)

c) houses are still relatively cheap compared to other developed nations. (I came from Hong Kong, and the price tag can easily be 3x to 5x than that in Vancouver.)

d) working environment is relatively laid back. The average work week of people is 40hrs. (Now, I know doctors work 50 hrs + too) In East Asia, most people work closer to 50 hrs +.

 

 

Why is Canada not so great:

a) High school was too easy. Everything should be condensed.

 

Professional schools like law, medicine, dentistry etc should be open to high school graduates just like Quebec, UK, Aust., East Asia.

 

There is no such thing as pre-med / pre-law in those countries.

 

I have already wasted 4 years of my life with a stupid bachelor degree.

 

it is cold (I think Australia is better, but I have not been there. Cali is good too, but I heard it is pretty expensive. I am fortunate enough to be in the warmest part of Canada - ie. Vancouver.)

 

c) not a lot of history. (max = 400 years?) Countries in East Asia have history of over 1000 years. If you love cultures + history, then I do not think you can ever get bored living in the East Asia. Weekend trips to Japan, Korea, Thailand, Philipines, SE Asia are very very common (provided the people are as rich as the typical Canadian. I understand there are many people in Asia that lives below the poverty line). But, what do people here do on the weekend? I think most of them stay in their own city. (However, I love Montreal and Quebec city. It is full of culture, too bad I do not speak French)

 

d) the culture is not as vibrant, and so life is boring.

(But, this is very very subjective. I am Asian... and still could not quite understand the "White" culture. Obviously, I think a lot of people might not get the "Asian" culture too.)

[JeraJaclyn]

I do not faint at the sight of blood. I got over that already. More like, I think I will faint if I see patients with trauma conditions.

 

Even then, I have seen a study saying that about 10% of medical students have experienced fainting in their education.

 

About living in Canada:

 

I think Canada is a great country, but certainly not the best among other developed nations. If you came from another country or have had the opportunity to live in another one for a few years, then I think you will understand my view.

 

Why is Canada great:

a) multicultural : I think people here have a very high tolerance for the visible minorities

outdoors (Although I am not an outdoor person)

c) houses are still relatively cheap compared to other developed nations. (I came from Hong Kong, and the price tag can easily be 3x to 5x than that in Vancouver.)

d) working environment is relatively laid back. The average work week of people is 40hrs. (Now, I know doctors work 50 hrs + too) In East Asia, most people work closer to 50 hrs +.

 

 

Why is Canada not so great:

a) High school was too easy. Everything should be condensed.

 

Professional schools like law, medicine, dentistry etc should be open to high school graduates just like Quebec, UK, Aust., East Asia.

 

I have already wasted 4 years of my life with a stupid bachelor degree.

 

it is cold (I think Australia is better, but I have not been to there. I am fortunate enough to be in Vancouver.)

 

c) not a lot of history. (max = 400 years?) Countries in East Asia have history of over 1000 years. If you love cultures + history, then I do not think you can ever get bored living in the East Asia.

 

d) the culture is not as vibrant, and so life is boring.

(But, this is very very subjective. I am Asian... and still could not quite understand the "White" culture. Obviously, I think a lot of people might not get the "Asian" culture too.)

 

Good god, you should become a professional list maker or something. Do you talk like this in real life? lol I can just imagine.

 

"Honey, I'd like you to be my wife. Here are my reasons.

a) You have nice hair

You have nice eyes

c) Marriage makes financial sense for us.

d) I like women, you are a woman.

 

But, you're boring and you are disgusting to me 5 days every month. I will try to work around this, though."