The Second Degree Crew

[Cnussey]

I won't be eligible to apply until next year so I'm considering doing another undergrad. My current degree is a BSC in Psychology. Unfortuately I do not know what I should do my second degree in. I have lots of varied interest like fine arts and English (writing and literature) but when they translate into courses they're not very rewarding (I've taken those courses before), I like Biology as well. I really don't want to do a masters...I think, to be frank I haven't reasearched that option as much as I should have. I'm very confused and feeling a little tired because ANOTHER year of school has begun. It feels like I'll be in undergrad forever. /rant

 

Unless you're doing it to up your GPA you don't necessarily have to go back to school--you could work, volunteer, or travel (if you have the money!). And if you are just trying to use up one year--why would you start another 3-4yr undergrad? You could take a "5th" year and enroll in a variety of fun courses.

[alnew]

Unless you're doing it to up your GPA you don't necessarily have to go back to school--you could work, volunteer, or travel (if you have the money!). And if you are just trying to use up one year--why would you start another 3-4yr undergrad? You could take a "5th" year and enroll in a variety of fun courses.

 

Well, the reasons include gpa although its not terrible ~3.86, as well as the fact that I was a part time student for much of my degree which doesn;t suit the requirements of my unis of choice. On top of that, I would like a back up in case I don't get into med on my first try (which is likely, not being negative, just realistic), I want to apply to as many schools as possible. Anyway I'm slowly narrowing down my options...and considering employment, hopefully I'll meet my own expectations this year gpa-wise.

[Cnussey]

Well, the reasons include gpa although its not terrible ~3.86, as well as the fact that I was a part time student for much of my degree which doesn;t suit the requirements of my unis of choice. On top of that, I would like a back up in case I don't get into med on my first try (which is likely, not being negative, just realistic), I want to apply to as many schools as possible. Anyway I'm slowly narrowing down my options...and considering employment, hopefully I'll meet my own expectations this year gpa-wise.

 

That GPA is fine (wanna trade? Lol). But don't give up...it often takes many brilliant students (look at the stats posted on here!) a few tries before they get accepted.

[Rayven]

The problem is his or her part-time years.

[lord1986]

let me join the club!

my first degree in life sciences from UT, crappy GPA;

completing my second degree in nursing at York, doing great so far~

probably will apply for medical school next year~

see my gradual progression towards medicine?

lol.....

[Marty]

Sign me up too!

 

My first degree (chem eng.) was done in the mid '90s. It was fully subsidized by the military which to me at the time meant very little incentive to excel grade wise. Left the military, worked as an engineer for a decade, started a family, and somewhere in there something happened. I wasn't born with the urge to be a doctor but it sure is high on the priority list now (right behind the kids!).

 

I gave up the engineering career and I'm now in my second year at Waterloo doing a biomed degree. I still find it a little odd that I'm the same age as many of my profs and double the age of all my lab partners...

 

The biggest change however is that instead of a weekly paycheck I now have to beg for a weekly allowance from my wife!

[dreamer87]

hey guys

 

just looking for some more info on all this: so basically what did you guys consider a "crappy" GPA for which you then went to do a second undergrad? is it just that you didn't want to bank all your hopes on the couple of med schools that look at your best 2 years, and you wanted to apply all over with stellar marks? for instance, if someone had a 3.4 cGPA but the best 2 years were like 3.8, wouldn't you still have a shot at some schools?

 

also, how do med schools feel about a second undergrad? do you get asked why you chose that path in an interview?

 

and most importantly - do med schools only see the marks for your most recent undergrad or do they get the transcript from your first degree also?

 

i'm in my last year and a bit torn between doing another year, doing a masters, or doing another 2 years to get another undergrad OR doing some sort of a professional program (like radiation tech or something) and then applying to med. any advice? doing an extra year won't help my GPA much, even if i get all 4.0s i will still be below the cutoffs, best case scenario might end up with a 3.6, but very unlikely. my long term goal is definitely medicine and i just need a way to get there!

 

suppose i start another undergrad degree, would i still be able to apply to med schools with my first degree marks? during the first year of my second degree? and then if i got in i could leave?

 

i appreciate any feedback, thank you!

[Cnussey]

hey guys

 

just looking for some more info on all this: so basically what did you guys consider a "crappy" GPA for which you then went to do a second undergrad? is it just that you didn't want to bank all your hopes on the couple of med schools that look at your best 2 years, and you wanted to apply all over with stellar marks? for instance, if someone had a 3.4 cGPA but the best 2 years were like 3.8, wouldn't you still have a shot at some schools?

 

also, how do med schools feel about a second undergrad? do you get asked why you chose that path in an interview?

 

and most importantly - do med schools only see the marks for your most recent undergrad or do they get the transcript from your first degree also?

 

i'm in my last year and a bit torn between doing another year, doing a masters, or doing another 2 years to get another undergrad OR doing some sort of a professional program (like radiation tech or something) and then applying to med. any advice? doing an extra year won't help my GPA much, even if i get all 4.0s i will still be below the cutoffs, best case scenario might end up with a 3.6, but very unlikely. my long term goal is definitely medicine and i just need a way to get there!

 

suppose i start another undergrad degree, would i still be able to apply to med schools with my first degree marks? during the first year of my second degree? and then if i got in i could leave?

 

i appreciate any feedback, thank you!

 

You need to consider if the GPA is the only thing holding you back and whether or not you will actually perform better the second time around.

[dreamer87]

You need to consider if the GPA is the only thing holding you back and whether or not you will actually perform better the second time around.

 

well pretty much a couple of C's and a D from first year are pulling down my GPA - since then i've been pretty consistent and have done well in tough upper years, so yes i do believe it's just the GPA and that i would be able to do better this time around. i was dealing with a lot of personal problems in my first year, which is the reason for those 2-3 poor grades, and this time around i won't be working like 50 hours a week, lol, so yeah.

[Cnussey]

well pretty much a couple of C's and a D from first year are pulling down my GPA - since then i've been pretty consistent and have done well in tough upper years, so yes i do believe it's just the GPA and that i would be able to do better this time around. i was dealing with a lot of personal problems in my first year, which is the reason for those 2-3 poor grades, and this time around i won't be working like 50 hours a week, lol, so yeah.

 

You might not have to do a second degree.

[rmorelan]

ok, let's go through it

 

hey guys

 

just looking for some more info on all this: so basically what did you guys consider a "crappy" GPA for which you then went to do a second undergrad? is it just that you didn't want to bank all your hopes on the couple of med schools that look at your best 2 years, and you wanted to apply all over with stellar marks? for instance, if someone had a 3.4 cGPA but the best 2 years were like 3.8, wouldn't you still have a shot at some schools?

[/Quote]

 

Absolutely, that is the dilemma. Do you hang on for the best two year schools (which I have to point out often do consider GPA so having 4.0 in those best/last two years etc is obviously ideal), or hopefully expand your options by going the second degree route.

 

also, how do med schools feel about a second undergrad? do you get asked why you chose that path in an interview?

 

Many won't know about it and other won't care. It is a lot easier explaining a second degree at the interview as well than not ever getting to that point

 

A lot of schools - NOSM, Western, Queens, Ottawa in Ontario effectively remove the first degree from consideration - so do some schools out of Ontario (where are you located?). Mac if you manage to raise your GPA won't care as the MMI is unlikely to bring that up. Toronto has a full file review, so you will probably have to explain something there, assuming you can get up the GPA required, but with a 3.4 cGPA that is unlikely so you won't have to worry about that!

 

and most importantly - do med schools only see the marks for your most recent undergrad or do they get the transcript from your first degree also?

 

They see both, but as I mention above that doesn't mean they care in a lot of cases and instead they focus on the later stuff.

 

i'm in my last year and a bit torn between doing another year, doing a masters, or doing another 2 years to get another undergrad OR doing some sort of a professional program (like radiation tech or something) and then applying to med. any advice? doing an extra year won't help my GPA much, even if i get all 4.0s i will still be below the cutoffs, best case scenario might end up with a 3.6, but very unlikely. my long term goal is definitely medicine and i just need a way to get there!

 

Yeah that is always tough - so many options and they all have strong points! Which are these two best years by the way (the 3.8 ones, are they both 3.8 etc). The position of those years makes a big, big difference.

 

If you managed to do a lap year at 4.0 that would be very big for Western, and possibly very big for both Queens and Ottawa. Depends on the arrangement of those other years. Don't discount the power one solid good year can do

 

It is hard but you are likely not going to be able to overcome the barriers to Toronto and likely Mac as they are cGPA based and it is murder to raise a GPA after 4 years. The good news it lets you really focus on what is left and there are certainly ways to get in there that work with your situation. How did you do on the MCAT is also an important thing to look at.

 

General consensus I believe is that a masters cannot overcome a low GPA (except at Queens but you still need a GPA >= 3.6 which means the GPA breakdown by year is important and Queens is only one school). If the technology program is not University level courses it won't enter the gpa calculations either so program specifics would have to be explored.

 

Lastly there are international options, which shouldn't be ignored. Expensive yes, perhaps with some barriers coming back to Canada, but compare that to the loss of multiple years income as a doctor in doing second degrees etc. What type of doctor you want to be is important here as well.

 

suppose i start another undergrad degree, would i still be able to apply to med schools with my first degree marks? during the first year of my second degree? and then if i got in i could leave?

[/Quote]

 

You won't be able to apply to Western, they will make you finish your new degree, but other ones would. Since western is one of the best 2 years schools that can be a bit a concern. You can leave a second degree at any time. Some people I know get into a med school and never finish the original UG the first time around.

 

Anyway that is a lot to hit you with all at once!

[rmorelan]

Sounds fair!

 

One thing to consider is that in the end you really need likely two more years of undergrad (including the one you are in) that are well done to max your chances in Ontario. In a solid 3.85+ this year and next would get you interviews at the three main schools of concern (Western, Queens, Ottawa) and maybe U of T with their consideration as well. Over this extra 5th year what would the second rad degree give you (other than of course radiation tech/P.A. as a career, which isn't too shabby )? What school is radiation tech at anyway?

 

Obviously prepare so you can ace the MCATs along this path as well

[rmorelan]

Sorry I wasn't clear - I was including the year you were in as a part of that. So that would be one more year after this one if all goes well the maximum number of schools you can likely apply to in Ontario to occur. By that point you would have one full app cycle (next fall to hopefully Queens/Western, again Mcat, mcat, mcat....), be in your fifth year while that goes on, and if you don't get in then you would apply to hopefully Ottawa/Queens/Western for round too. Toronto is likely in there as well if you can get them to consider you. After that you could do say a masters perhaps, knowing you can apply over and over again if you can just hit that GPA cut off.

 

This is all just (I think) the quickest way to apply to the most schools - only NOSM (are your rural?) and Mac (cGPA) are left out.

 

You can certainly go the rad tech route (it is an Honours degree? Western needs one of those and it doesn't sound like the sort of degree that leads to a Masters level work?) or P.A. - those sound like a great way to set up a back up career. Hence the trade off, you would take longer to go that route.

 

hey!

 

i'm a bit confused! so you're saying even though i have one year in which i got 3.82, and i will have this year as well with a 3.85+ that i still need 2 more years? or did you get confused with the way i said it earlier, lol

 

here is the plan:

 

3rd year i had: 3.82

4th year (now) estimated GPA: 3.8-4.0

 

then i will have a best 2 years (for western and queens) at 3.8+, at U of T my wGPA would be about 3.8 also, and so on. so you're saying after this year i should do 2 more years to maximize chances (despite having 2 good years already above cutoffs)? or would it be better to do a 5th year and apply during that?

 

the radiation tech program is offered by U of T (Michener istitute). it's 3 years but you get a Bsc for it. only reason i would be inclined to do this as opposed to a 5th year is because suppose i apply this coming year (that is, during my 5th year) and don't get in, what will i do then? it would be a bit of a waste....i could have used that year towards a second undergrad. i don't know if this thinking is good or not, lol. a question: if it's a Bsc med schools will see the GPA for that, but won't consider the GPA if i were to do a masters in physiotherapy or something? as long as it's a MSc they won't take it?

 

ugh, so confused about what to do

[dreamer87]

Sorry I wasn't clear - I was including the year you were in as a part of that. So that would be one more year after this one if all goes well the maximum number of schools you can likely apply to in Ontario to occur. By that point you would have one full app cycle (next fall to hopefully Queens/Western, again Mcat, mcat, mcat....), be in your fifth year while that goes on, and if you don't get in then you would apply to hopefully Ottawa/Queens/Western for round too. Toronto is likely in there as well if you can get them to consider you. After that you could do say a masters perhaps, knowing you can apply over and over again if you can just hit that GPA cut off.

 

This is all just (I think) the quickest way to apply to the most schools - only NOSM (are your rural?) and Mac (cGPA) are left out.

 

You can certainly go the rad tech route (it is an Honours degree? Western needs one of those and it doesn't sound like the sort of degree that leads to a Masters level work?) or P.A. - those sound like a great way to set up a back up career. Hence the trade off, you would take longer to go that route.

 

 

alright cool stuff, thanks for helping me decide! the rad tech degree can lead to masters in that field, but i don't think its an honours one. the P.A one isn't. i'm probably just gona do an extra year, hope for the best, and if i don't get in, i will apply to some other programs etc just in case and apply again

[rmorelan]

alright cool stuff, thanks for helping me decide! the rad tech degree can lead to masters in that field, but i don't think its an honours one. the P.A one isn't. i'm probably just gona do an extra year, hope for the best, and if i don't get in, i will apply to some other programs etc just in case and apply again

 

Good luck! Push to get that GPA up

[Coach]

It is hard but you are likely not going to be able to overcome the barriers to Toronto and likely Mac as they are cGPA based and it is murder to raise a GPA after 4 years.

 

Just a quick question: doesn't Toronto only use the last 2 years if you have a full course load? I thought they only use cGPA when you fall below their full course load.

[123coco]

Just a quick question: doesn't Toronto only use the last 2 years if you have a full course load? I thought they only use cGPA when you fall below their full course load.

 

 

Admission Information

Selection Process

Admission Statistics

Financial Services

Student Awards

Calculation of GPA/Weighting Formula

 

GPA is calculated using grades from all courses taken at an undergraduate level on a full-time basis. All course grades are included in a single GPA, including grades from multiple degree programs and/or from full-time non-degree study (e.g., a fifth year of courses taken following a four-year degree). We do not weight grades differentially based on year of study.

 

For undergraduate applicants, a minimum GPA of 3.6 / 4.0 on the OMSAS scale is required.

For graduate applicants, the minimum is 3.0 / 4.0.

 

Because enrolment is limited and admission to the Faculty of Medicine is competitive, the possession of the minimum requirements does not ensure acceptance.

 

The GPA is calculated using the following formulae, as applicable:

 

 

Application after completing only two years of university education

 

GPA will be calculated using grades from all courses completed on a full-time basis during the two completed years of university.

 

Application after completing at least three years of university education

 

Applicants who have taken a full course load in every year

 

A GPA weighting formula may be used for students who have completed at least three years of university study and have taken a full course load (i.e., five full credits), during the regular academic session, in each of their academic years.

 

GPA will be calculated eliminating one full-course equivalent grade per full year of study. Students applying after completion of three years of study will have their lowest 3 full-course equivalent grades removed from the GPA calculation, after completion of four years, their lowest 4 full-course equivalent grades, etc. We remove lowest overall grades, not lowest grades in each year of study.

 

This calculation is designed to encourage students to take demanding, advanced courses which advance their education during their undergraduate years.

 

Applicants who have taken less than a full course load

 

Applicants who have taken less than five full-courses (or 10 half-courses) in any given year will be considered on the average of all courses taken during the regular academic session on a full-time basis. The weighting formula will not be applied.

 

Applicants who wish special consideration for weighting due to unusual circumstances should submit their request in writing, supported by reasons. All requests for special consideration will be reviewed by the Admissions Committee and are assessed on a case-by-case basis. No decision will be released.

________

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[rmorelan]

Just a quick question: doesn't Toronto only use the last 2 years if you have a full course load? I thought they only use cGPA when you fall below their full course load.

 

sounds like Queens - they are last 2 years, or full cGPA which ever is best. Toronto is cGPA but has a drop a course policy which is great if you qualify for it

[Coach]

sounds like Queens - they are last 2 years, or full cGPA which ever is best. Toronto is cGPA but has a drop a course policy which is great if you qualify for it

 

My bad - thanks for clarifying. The various rules per school can be confusing as hell

[future_doc]

Hey Coach, good to see you back following your dream like us all. Be strong, man.

[Coach]

Hey Coach, good to see you back following your dream like us all. Be strong, man.

 

Thanks FD.

[rmorelan]

My bad - thanks for clarifying. The various rules per school can be confusing as hell

 

Yes they can Without this forum originally it would have taken me forever (if ever) to get them all down.

[toni_88]

Hey everyone!!

 

I've been a long time lurker on this forum...this is my first post. I would like to pursue a second degree starting next September, but I'm having a hard time trying to figure out where I should go or what I should take. I currently have a degree in Health Sciences... I would like to go to U of T Scarborough but I'm slightly turned off by the bell curve. Does anyone know if Ryerson has honours programs in the sciences???

[future_doc]

Hey toni, I just checked out Ryerson science. I was not able to find an honours program per se, i.e., I could not find anything called 'honours program', however, they appear to have some very challenging courses in the sciences including thesis based courses (with supervision). I think Ryerson would be a fine choice.

[toni_88]

Thanks f_d. I just got off the phone with admissions at Ryerson (I was on hold for 10 minutes today, which isn't too bad compared to yesterday) , they said all of their degrees are honours degrees (ie 4 years UG=honours), I ask because UofT has a policy where you need to take either a specialist program, 2 majors or 1 major and 2 minors in order to graduate with an honours degree. I hope I get accepted in meds after completing 2 years if I don't I could reapply during my 4th year to Western. I was planning on doing a masters but I've decided to check my pride and do another UG. This forum has helped me tremendously. good luck everyone