The Second Degree Crew

[paramed6191]

hey guys,

 

just have a quick question, i see on here some ppl did thier degree through universities through Atabhasca, or distant ed degrees, how do med schools look at these degrees, i mean i dont wanna sound nieve, but would it be considered the same as any other degree?

 

I have thought about doing a degree from Athabasca for a long time (or at least a few courses and the rest from UNB). Like you I have always wondered what universities had thought of this so I emailed Dalhousie University and I received a 1 line email saying "this is fine". To me this didn't seem that encouraging. What does everyone else think of this?

[Andie]

SheriffLobo - I'm doing my second degree at U of T, they grant you 5 transfer credits, so it will take 3 years to do a second degree. Some schools may transfer 10, so you should shop around and see what different schools' policies are. I think the application was in March/April for Sept start so you should look around soon! Others PM101ers have also mentioned nursing which is a 2 year degree if you already have a previous degree, might be worth considering.

[supafield]

^ Western was 10 I believe. So it was doable in two years.

[Spleen Spirit]

^ Western was 10 I believe. So it was doable in two years.

 

Presumably that GPA calculation would be straightforward for Queens, Western and I believe Calgary (2 year calculations)... but how do the other schools look at it? Do most take your average over 6 years (both degrees) or just from your most recent one, despite it only lasting 2 years?

[supafield]

Presumably that GPA calculation would be straightforward for Queens, Western and I believe Calgary (2 year calculations)... but how do the other schools look at it? Do most take your average over 6 years (both degrees) or just from your most recent one, despite it only lasting 2 years?

 

Where I checked...

 

Western/Queen's/Dal all took the two years of my new degree.

NOSM - Only looked at new degree once completed

Mac/UT - Look at all 6 years

Ottawa - wGPA over 3 years... so 2 year came from my new degree, and one year from my old degree.

 

Didn't check Mun/McGill or out west.

[Islander33]

I am just finishing my undergrad degree in nursing (I have taken 4-5 classes/semester for the past 4 years), however will taking my prereqs 2 at a time (through DE) effect my application? I would like to work full-time while completing my prereqs and don't see a point in taking extra classes that I don't need!

[Hackintosh]

I am considering a second degree with a 3.67 on my first one (with a really bad final year ~3.0). I want to do the second degree in computer science but my first degree was completely unrelated (neuroscience). In this case will I still be given 1 or 2 years worth of credits or would I have to finish the entire degree in 4 years?

[oncoman]

hey islander33,

 

i am just curious can you shed some more light into how you found your nursing courses. I am going to be applying for nursing for th eupcoming year and want to know what the courses are like compared to other undergrad work. I hear there is a lot of writing, aka essays and so on, which i totally dont mind. Is it difficult to do well in nursing?

[Islander33]

Oncoman, I have not found nursing very difficult at all! The school that I have attended has a very supportive faculty so if you do struggle with something you can still excel by going to speak with the prof to clarify confusion.

 

First and second year had approximately 5-6 exams/ year however there were none in third and fourth year; therefore, marks were mostly comprised of papers. You will do great if you are good at writing papers!

 

Nursing is a great degree to have because you can go a lot of places with it in the health care area. If I had to choose again, I would definitely repeat the last four years. You will also gain a lot of valuable experiences to add to your med application.

[AndreaM]

I am considering a second degree with a 3.67 on my first one (with a really bad final year ~3.0). I want to do the second degree in computer science but my first degree was completely unrelated (neuroscience). In this case will I still be given 1 or 2 years worth of credits or would I have to finish the entire degree in 4 years?

 

It depends on the program. If it has lots of electives then you can use your previous credits to fill elective space, but if you have few elective then you will end up doing more years. Also, if there are lots of courses with pre-reqs that you have to do then that can slow down your second degree as well.

[medZ]

Hello All

 

I have just completed by second undergrad at Ryerson. I did my first degree at U of T with a horrible GPA . My GPA at Ryerson was a lot better than my first but probably just enough to meet most cutoffs for medical school. I am probably going to try for a Masters to improve my chances, but if they reject me should I give up hope on medicine all together? I really want them to dismiss my 1st degree but I know they will look at my entire academic record.

 

Does anyone know of any U.S schools that will look at your second degree. To my knowledge most schools, like mac, will take the average of all academic years.

 

Thanks

[nosuperman]

Hello All

 

I have just completed by second undergrad at Ryerson. I did my first degree at U of T with a horrible GPA . My GPA at Ryerson was a lot better than my first but probably just enough to meet most cutoffs for medical school. I am probably going to try for a Masters to improve my chances, but if they reject me should I give up hope on medicine all together? I really want them to dismiss my 1st degree but I know they will look at my entire academic record.

 

Does anyone know of any U.S schools that will look at your second degree. To my knowledge most schools, like mac, will take the average of all academic years.

 

Thanks

 

Hello! Welcome to the forum!

 

First off congrats on finishing two degrees, you've already accomplished a ton in that so theres one thing to be proud of.

 

I also am considering taking a second undergrad so I asked your question on the SDN Forums as they're a better source for US medical school information. The 2 replies I received indicated that US schools only look at cumulative GPA, which would mean that you couldn't get away from the effects of your first degree. Now the forums are also chalk full of of erroneous information so take that with a grain of salt...

 

Whether or not a Masters will be particularly helpful depends largely on your GPA. Most schools in Canada (except for Mac, UofT and UBC I think) won't weigh a Masters into GPA calculations. There are tons of threads here already for you search for concerning Masters degrees. Most are "Masters vs Second Undergrad" themed but they still highlight the critical points of Masters degree vs. low GPA.

 

...but if they reject me should I give up hope on medicine all together?

 

That's something only you can answer. The non-trad board in particular is full of people who either didn't get in right away or chose alternate careers before come to (or back to) medicine successfully. If I were in your situation I wouldn't give up, but that has to do with how I feel about medicine.

 

There's also the option of going oversees to consider.

 

Best of luck!

[ladybug]

Does anyone know how med schools would calculate your gpa if you finished one degree (4 years) then completed a two year masters, and THEN went back to do a second degree? Do they still look at your cumulative gpa for your first and second undergrad even though you did a masters in the middle? Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

Thanks

[predoc]

Hi everyone,

 

I've been reading posts on here for quiet sometime and I have to say, I've read some of the best advices and ideas on here .. so this is my first post and I'm really hoping for your advice on this

 

here's my situation:

 

I'm 24, I have a B.sc, major Biology, my GPA is absolutely out of med school application level, I was one of those students who do an undergrad just to do an undergrad, did not have a clue where I was going with it, that plus poor study skills, poor time management, lead to a low GPA (I was happy I didn't fail any courses yea nothing cool about that!! )

 

I have always had medicine in the back of my mind, everyone around me including family, friends brought up that my personality, patience, compassion .. should help me if I were to pursue the career .. never took it seriously.. now I do .. BIG TIME! I went into the working world into corporate (global pharma) in Pharmaceutical Regulatory Affairs .. although I enjoyed working towards obtaining approvals of health products from Health Canada to relieve patients' suffering .. I hated every aspect of the corporation .. including the low values (patients are actually the last concern after money, money, money reputation, then some more money) it's just pathetic!

 

so I am definitely pursuing medicine now and won't give up until I seriously try with a viable application about .. say 100 times!

 

I need you advice on the wisest .. most reasonable path of achieving a viable application, I have to do another UG, there's no question about that, however, I am also planing on completing a B.Ed (to be certified to teach in Ontario, this is my plan b, as teaching is the other thing I love and would see myself doing for the rest of my life...until I get into med ) , now should I start with the UG first then while applying for med, do the B.Ed (fulltime, full course load --> no work for another 2 years minimum, I need finances to support myself)

 

OR

 

do the B.Ed first, start work part-time or as a supply (I am fully bilingual French, and will do the B.Ed as a francophone meaning I should have less hardship landing a teaching spot in an Anglophone city (there's less of us here ) .. and while working, do the 2nd UG fulltime and meet the gpa cutoff .. the teaching experience should help me in my application to med I think

 

what are your thoughts? Thank you very much to anyone who has read the whole thing, I really really appreciate it and I should say, I am so inspired by your stories fellow non-trad 2nd UG crew

[shannn]

Hi everyone,

 

I've been reading posts on here for quiet sometime and I have to say, I've read some of the best advices and ideas on here .. so this is my first post and I'm really hoping for your advice on this

 

here's my situation:

 

I'm 24, I have a B.sc, major Biology, my GPA is absolutely out of med school application level, I was one of those students who do an undergrad just to do an undergrad, did not have a clue where I was going with it, that plus poor study skills, poor time management, lead to a low GPA (I was happy I didn't fail any courses yea nothing cool about that!! )

 

I have always had medicine in the back of my mind, everyone around me including family, friends brought up that my personality, patience, compassion .. should help me if I were to pursue the career .. never took it seriously.. now I do .. BIG TIME! I went into the working world into corporate (global pharma) in Pharmaceutical Regulatory Affairs .. although I enjoyed working towards obtaining approvals of health products from Health Canada to relieve patients' suffering .. I hated every aspect of the corporation .. including the low values (patients are actually the last concern after money, money, money reputation, then some more money) it's just pathetic!

 

so I am definitely pursuing medicine now and won't give up until I seriously try with a viable application about .. say 100 times!

 

I need you advice on the wisest .. most reasonable path of achieving a viable application, I have to do another UG, there's no question about that, however, I am also planing on completing a B.Ed (to be certified to teach in Ontario, this is my plan b, as teaching is the other thing I love and would see myself doing for the rest of my life...until I get into med ) , now should I start with the UG first then while applying for med, do the B.Ed (fulltime, full course load --> no work for another 2 years minimum, I need finances to support myself)

 

OR

 

do the B.Ed first, start work part-time or as a supply (I am fully bilingual French, and will do the B.Ed as a francophone meaning I should have less hardship landing a teaching spot in an Anglophone city (there's less of us here ) .. and while working, do the 2nd UG fulltime and meet the gpa cutoff .. the teaching experience should help me in my application to med I think

 

what are your thoughts? Thank you very much to anyone who has read the whole thing, I really really appreciate it and I should say, I am so inspired by your stories fellow non-trad 2nd UG crew

 

Thats a toughie.

 

Just remember that teaching jobs are pretty difficult to get still (even if you are qualified to teach French, it took my friend 2 years to land a permanent part time position with the TDSB). And there is a huge surplus of teachers, and many part time/substitute teachers already looking to take over retiring teacher's places in the school boards.

 

You definitely need to do another undergrad and pull up your GPA, get your MCAT done. Would it be possible to do this while you are still working for the pharm company?

[miss_indep]

UWO doesnt look at graduate courses right? So if you only meet the cutoff in one year that would be a problem? What about second degree - will they use a year from there and a year from your previous undergrad? Just curious about all the options. Thanks!

[predoc]

Thats a toughie.

 

Just remember that teaching jobs are pretty difficult to get still (even if you are qualified to teach French, it took my friend 2 years to land a permanent part time position with the TDSB). And there is a huge surplus of teachers, and many part time/substitute teachers already looking to take over retiring teacher's places in the school boards.

 

You definitely need to do another undergrad and pull up your GPA, get your MCAT done. Would it be possible to do this while you are still working for the pharm company?

 

thank you for replying Shannn!

 

it is true that there are more and more teachers in Ontario, however I will be qualified to teach in French-language public schools in Ontario (not teach French -the language) and I am involved with the district school board which manages those schools in my area. I have to do the francophone B.Ed anyway as this is my solid plan B if Medicine takes longer than expected to happen.

 

I have thought about doing the 2nd undergrad while working in pharma however, since I am gonna have to do the UG fulltime/full course load, I won't be able to work full time at the company, AND the field of Regulatory Affairs is not flexible .. (9-5, 5 times a week career) , honestly, I kinda feel like the one year of intense studies it took me to get the RA certification was a waste of time (I could've done the B.Ed or one year of undergrad then )

 

so now that doing UG#2 while working in corporate is not an option, should I do the B.Ed first, become a certified teacher, then go into the full time UG ??

[nosuperman]

so now that doing UG#2 while working in corporate is not an option, should I do the B.Ed first, become a certified teacher, then go into the full time UG ??

 

You'd have to go to school full time to qualify your undergrad GPA for med school admission. I think it'd be pretty tough to pursue a profession such as teaching (with homework, a learning curve, prep time, etc) while attending school full time while simultaneously pulling a super high GPA.

 

What if you get swamped or have assignment, lab or exam conflicts? Could you just stop teaching for a few weeks to catch up? You'd have to. If you did poorly on a midterm or needed to get 100% on an assignment then school would have to be your only priority, because one poor grade can ruin your chances altogether when you're only using 2 or 3 years.

 

Now as a new teacher, fresh out of college, would they look down upon you for being so demanding in needing to put your education first so incessantly? With all the other people fighting to get your job would it not get your teaching career off with a rocky start and perhaps even affect your early performance reviews/evaluations? Your colleagues could afford to work those extra shifts and to go that extra mile. You'd have to do the bare minimum and say 'no' to them occasionally because your priority is your premed course.

 

If this is the case then I think you'd be essentially half-assing it as a teacher and half-assing it as a premed, attention-wise at least. Your classmates won't be working that much - they're calling in sick before exams and staying up all night studying while you have to teach kids in the morning... so you aren't really giving your full attention to either, and if you love them both, they each deserve your full attention.

 

IMO if medicine is your dream and your top priority then treat it as such and put your fullest attention into pursuing it. Get loans, lines of credit, etc. and work a flexible job during school to just get by... if you make it worthwhile and get those high grades (and everything else you'd need) then it'd be worth it in the long run. If you don't get in and you elect to go with the backup plan, then put your full attention into it and be the best teacher you could possibly be.

 

Alternately you could do teaching first and hope to get into medicine, but if you don't get in you'll always be second guessing whether you truly gave it your best shot. Doing medicine first at least you know you put everything into it.

 

This is how I would think of it were I in this position. Certainly your priorities may be different... but that's my take. Best of luck with whatever you chose and keep us posted

[predoc]

You'd have to go to school full time to qualify your undergrad GPA for med school admission. I think it'd be pretty tough to pursue a profession such as teaching (with homework, a learning curve, prep time, etc) while attending school full time while simultaneously pulling a super high GPA.

 

What if you get swamped or have assignment, lab or exam conflicts? Could you just stop teaching for a few weeks to catch up? You'd have to. If you did poorly on a midterm or needed to get 100% on an assignment then school would have to be your only priority, because one poor grade can ruin your chances altogether when you're only using 2 or 3 years.

 

Now as a new teacher, fresh out of college, would they look down upon you for being so demanding in needing to put your education first so incessantly? With all the other people fighting to get your job would it not get your teaching career off with a rocky start and perhaps even affect your early performance reviews/evaluations? Your colleagues could afford to work those extra shifts and to go that extra mile. You'd have to do the bare minimum and say 'no' to them occasionally because your priority is your premed course.

 

Thanks for your reply nosuperman, appreciate it!

 

I completely agree, I would NOT have the option of saying no and taking days off as I wish as a new teacher fresh out of college, I wouldn't have that option even as an experienced teacher (all I'd have is a bit more of flexibility). However, I do not plan on working full time after the B.Ed meaning I won't apply to any full time positions; I have the option of being put on the substitute teacher list and indicating my availability (which I will determine after organizing my schedule for the fulltime UG#2) so I won't have any stable income but that wouldn't be my priority then.

 

 

IMO if medicine is your dream and your top priority then treat it as such and put your fullest attention into pursuing it. Get loans, lines of credit, etc. and work a flexible job during school to just get by... if you make it worthwhile and get those high grades (and everything else you'd need) then it'd be worth it in the long run. If you don't get in and you elect to go with the backup plan, then put your full attention into it and be the best teacher you could possibly be.

 

Alternately you could do teaching first and hope to get into medicine, but if you don't get in you'll always be second guessing whether you truly gave it your best shot. Doing medicine first at least you know you put everything into it.

 

the reason why I am considering doing the B.Ed first (just the education, as I said, no fulltime work right after) is because, in case Medicine doesn't happen right after I finish UG#2, I'll have something that I can do fulltime (teaching) while working on my applications for the following year. I believe that teachers' schedule is very flexible and offers plenty of time for EC's (my Mother is a teacher and is home at 3:00 pm, there's always the prep and correction work, but I think I've got the genes from her at doing that very efficiently). On the other hand, If I do the UG first, in 2/3 years, I can submit my first application and hope for the best, but there's always the other thousands of awesomely deserving pre-meds too, now if I don't get in, I won'y have anything to go back to, I'll have to go to school again for the B.Ed

 

Another thing, I'll be applying as a non-trad, I'll be around 27, 28 when I apply, I don't wanna have a "I didn't do anything career wise" kinda application. obviously, what's expected from a non-trad applicant is not the same expected from a 22 year old applicant. One last thing, being a certified teacher, one can travel to teach abroad, there are opportunities to have international EC's while there, which I believe would strengthen the application..

[tickytacky23]

Also remember that even though its a B.Ed and is considered an undergrad degree, many of the courses I believe are pass/fail so they won't count them as a year of undergrad and they obviously wouldn't count towards your gpa (obvs if its pass/fail).

 

And even supply teaching jobs are hard to come by in Canada, so if you were going to rely on that as your only source of income, you might be need another job. And supplying might not be as flexible either (ie if you are put on a supply list, you can be called in a few hours before with little notice, so planning things might be difficult - would you say no to supply teaching to do a midterm or to do an EC? you need to eat!)

 

If you're serious about med, I'd say do the 2nd undergrad 1st. You can even look at schools like Queen's who will use your last 2 years of undergrad, so if your final year of your B.sc. was competitive, you could do 1 more f/t year of undergrad w/ a competitive gpa and apply then. (careful though b/c I believe some school require you to finish a 2nd degree - Queen's isn't one of them).

[Hopeful Med]

I don't think predoc wants to use the B.Ed to count for med but that is a good point for anyone thinking they can.

 

Only the two year B.Ed programs can be used for med.

[predoc]

 

If you're serious about med, I'd say do the 2nd undergrad 1st. You can even look at schools like Queen's who will use your last 2 years of undergrad, so if your final year of your B.sc. was competitive, you could do 1 more f/t year of undergrad w/ a competitive gpa and apply then. (careful though b/c I believe some school require you to finish a 2nd degree - Queen's isn't one of them).

 

thanks for your time,

 

the main concern is the fact that I will be applying to med as a non-trad 27 year old, compared to a 22 year applicant, I better have something consistent in terms of a career .. if I do the undergrad first, I wouldn't really (there's pharma RA, but if I decide to take on full time positions in that field, I will barely have time to work on the other aspects of a med school application) .. also, teaching will give me one more reason to go abroad and get international experience (EC's) .. it's true, this path will delay the process of applying to Med, but I don't wanna rush things, when I do apply, I wanna have a strong, viable application in Canada.

[predoc]

I don't think predoc wants to use the B.Ed to count for med but that is a good point for anyone thinking they can.

 

Only the two year B.Ed programs can be used for med.

 

Thanks for your contribution hopefulMed!

 

can I ask where you read about the 2 year B.Ed being eligible as an undergrad for med school? .. I just need the source and I'll go read about it .. it would be really good if I can just start the two years next year and use that in my application while still being certified to teach at the end .. Thanks in advance!

[kylamonkey]

 

I need you advice on the wisest .. most reasonable path of achieving a viable application, I have to do another UG, there's no question about that, however, I am also planing on completing a B.Ed (to be certified to teach in Ontario, this is my plan b, as teaching is the other thing I love and would see myself doing for the rest of my life...until I get into med ) , now should I start with the UG first then while applying for med, do the B.Ed (fulltime, full course load --> no work for another 2 years minimum, I need finances to support myself)

 

OR

 

do the B.Ed first, start work part-time or as a supply (I am fully bilingual French, and will do the B.Ed as a francophone meaning I should have less hardship landing a teaching spot in an Anglophone city (there's less of us here ) .. and while working, do the 2nd UG fulltime and meet the gpa cutoff .. the teaching experience should help me in my application to med I think

I feel I have something to add here, just bear with me...

 

I would NEVER recommend anyone go into teaching. My partner was a sub for 5 years and never got any sort of job. We still get emails from the sub mailing list, and the news is never good.

 

We live in BC, so it is a little different, but I was absolutely shocked when I was at UVic and I heard the propaganda spouted by the B.Ed. recruiters. The line is this:

"teachers are retiring and you can get their spots"

"francophone teachers can get jobs"

"there are opportunities all the time"

Blah blah blah...

 

The situation in BC has been the same for at least 10 years now. There are NO jobs, none full-time at least. There are occasional part-time jobs, but once you take one you are locked into never being offered a full-time job. New teachers are being dropped into the system faster than the old ones are retiring. There is an alarming amount of nepotism.

 

The job of recruiters is to get people into the program, get bums in seats. That is what makes money.

Forgive me if I sound bitter, but I lived through 3 yrs of my partner making less than 20K per year gross, phone calls at 6am IF you were lucky enough to get called that day, and he would often arrive home at night totally wiped out from a day with kids who just loved to test the sub's limits.

 

I entered UVic after my partner had left the teaching profession and started his own business, but I heard many a "sales pitch" for the BEd program while I was at UVic. It was always total junk. Often I couldn't belive what I was reading/hearing- it was outright lies.

 

Bottom line, I wouldn't trust a thing told to me by recruiters.

 

/rant!

 

(I promise I'm normally a very happy person- this topic obviously just really really gets to me!)

[predoc]

 

The situation in BC has been the same for at least 10 years now. There are NO jobs, none full-time at least. There are occasional part-time jobs, but once you take one you are locked into never being offered a full-time job. New teachers are being dropped into the system faster than the old ones are retiring. There is an alarming amount of nepotism.

 

The job of recruiters is to get people into the program, get bums in seats. That is what makes money.

 

 

Bottom line, I wouldn't trust a thing told to me by recruiters.

 

/rant!

 

I know what you mean, in my case though, the "recruiter" is my mother :/ .. she's a francophone teacher .. the other thing is .. I don't see myself doing anything other than teaching or practicing medicine OR teaching (whatever I can get) UNTIL I get to Medicine .. if I could, I would start another undergrad right away but my financial situation doesn't help, I live with my mother and she's supportive on me pursuing medicine but NOT without another career (not a job) on the side .. it's difficult .. I'm lost sometimes!! thanks for your input though, I appreciate it