The Second Degree Crew

[Hopeful Med]

So go to one of the provinces which has a two year B.Ed. program. You will still be IP for Ontario, you will get a career and save yourself at least one year of a useless second degree.

 

klyamonkey, you are right but predoc is French and will be able to get a job in the GTA growing boards.

[crete]

Does anyone know how med schools would calculate your gpa if you finished one degree (4 years) then completed a two year masters, and THEN went back to do a second degree? Do they still look at your cumulative gpa for your first and second undergrad even though you did a masters in the middle? Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

Thanks

 

I also had a question about this. Especially if your masters is thesis-based and then you return to do another undergraduate degree. Thanks.

[ladybug]

I contacted UofT directly to find out how they calculate gpa if completing a undergrad degree following a two-year masters and here's the reply from admissions:

 

"We do a single GPA calculation for all years of undergrad study. So, if you had a full courseload in all years, we would lump all those grades together and drop the lowest N courses overall (whatever the number of years completed would make you eligible to receive).

 

Research isn’t a specific requirement for our medical school. We do have a strong research component in our program for those who wish to go that route, but it is not something we specifically value more than other areas in our assessment process. There is no negative to doing additional undergrad work after a masters degree."

 

Hopefully that helps!

[Caylynn]

I thought I would chime in here.

 

I'm starting my second degree this fall at the University of Alberta. My first degree is in biological engineering (from Guelph), and despite graduating at the top of my class and winning the PEO Gold Medal, I do have a couple of Bs and B+s on my transcript, so there went my GPA.

 

Starting a second degree in Nutrition and Food Science this fall, majoring in Nutrition with a minor in Physical Activity, so that I have Dietetics and can apply to Physical Therapy/Physiotherapy as fall back positions.

 

The human body is fascinating to me, and I am passionate about health and fitness (I work part-time as a group fitness/aerobics instructor) so I know that I would probably be happy in any health-related field where I can make decisions and help others (corny, yes, but true!)

[NursingStudent]

Hello

 

Any of you completed your second undergraduate via Distance Education through Athabasca or anywhere else. Are med schools okay with it?

 

Thanks

[SheriffLobo]

Hey guys,

 

I was wondering if you could help me out here. I was planning to apply to UWO in two years, but because I failed massively in my undergrad (Just barely a I'm planning on doing a second degree in Biological anthropology next year. Currently I'm enrolled in the Clinical Research Post-Graduate program so I have the opportunity to work at a hospital alongside physicians helping out with their research. Right now I'm doing extremely well in the program, and am hoping to graduate with a Honors placement (80+).

 

I was wondering if you guys could give me any pointers on how to pursue this. I'll most likely be working part time and going to school full time, as well as shadowing physicians at the hospital of my employment during any free time I have. I have other EC's as well; planning on volunteering at a local hospital soon and taking martial arts. Am I on the right track here? I mean, provided my MCATs and Second degree marks are high up (I plan on hitting 4.0's in at least 70% of my courses), will my application be competitive?

 

Thanks for reading guys, and hoping for some guidance here.

[RN2MD]

Yes. Absolutely on the right track! Is biological anthropology something you really enjoy? You'll find you do much better in a degree that you really like.

If you do get the GPA you are hoping to get, and kill the MCAT, you'll certainly be competitive for some med schools. Some schools like Mac though, calculate a cumulative GPA so they might not be an option for you.

Make sure that you maintain a full courseload each year, otherwise, UWO (full courseload= 5.0/yr) & Queen's (full course = 4.0/yr) won't look at you either.

Good luck & enjoy your new program!

[SheriffLobo]

Hey R2

 

Thanks for the reply. Yeah Biological Anthropology has always been a big interest of mine, unfortunately I decided that a general biology would be more pertinent during undergrad. Won't be making that mistake the same time again. Thanks for the help R2.

 

I do know about Queens and UWO's requirements. Someone told me that UC and UA have a similar system where they look at your two best years/most recent degree. Is this true?

[LostLamb]

Hey R2

 

Thanks for the reply. Yeah Biological Anthropology has always been a big interest of mine, unfortunately I decided that a general biology would be more pertinent during undergrad. Won't be making that mistake the same time again. Thanks for the help R2.

 

I do know about Queens and UWO's requirements. Someone told me that UC and UA have a similar system where they look at your two best years/most recent degree. Is this true?

 

UC only looks at two years of grades to determine if you meet the requirements for full file review. Your actual application takes into consideration all courses and all grades.

 

UA will drop the lowest 30 credit year, as long as that year is not your final year or the only year in your transcript with 30 credits.

 

Hope that helps!

[VanDoc]

Hi there

I'm considering doing a second degree in order to have a decent chance at any Dental school. I'm a BC resident so I was wondering if UBC only uses your second degree during evaluation? Also what if any American schools only take your second degree when evaluating? Do these schools then hopefully wipe off your first degree? (73% overall gpa Thanks for the response and help.

[dreamer]

Hey guys,

 

I was wondering if you could help me out here. I was planning to apply to UWO in two years, but because I failed massively in my undergrad (Just barely a I'm planning on doing a second degree in Biological anthropology next year. Currently I'm enrolled in the Clinical Research Post-Graduate program so I have the opportunity to work at a hospital alongside physicians helping out with their research. Right now I'm doing extremely well in the program, and am hoping to graduate with a Honors placement (80+).

 

I was wondering if you guys could give me any pointers on how to pursue this. I'll most likely be working part time and going to school full time, as well as shadowing physicians at the hospital of my employment during any free time I have. I have other EC's as well; planning on volunteering at a local hospital soon and taking martial arts. Am I on the right track here? I mean, provided my MCATs and Second degree marks are high up (I plan on hitting 4.0's in at least 70% of my courses), will my application be competitive?

 

Thanks for reading guys, and hoping for some guidance here.

 

Hey Sheriff, that's awesome if you're trying to do what you really want to do, but I'm gonna give you some heads up right now, and make sure you work on any weaknesses you may have for the MCAT. That's the number one tip, because although your grades will likely be stellar if you bust your ass, it won't mean anything if you can't clear a 10, in say, verbal. I had huge trouble with that and it caused me a lot of grief over two summers.

[cgardiner]

LOL. My family doesn't have a clue that I'm going into medicine--it's like having a baby, you don't tell them until you're actually pregnant.

 

Wow thats actually cool.

 

Hey mom guess what - i got accepted into med school!

[funnykid]

Hello

 

Any of you completed your second undergraduate via Distance Education through Athabasca or anywhere else. Are med schools okay with it?

 

Thanks

 

I would like to know too. Anyone want to take a stab at this?

[oncoman]

i agree anyone have any info on this?

 

I would like to know too. Anyone want to take a stab at this?

[viplove]

hey guys,

I have been following this thread for quite some time and it has answered pretty much all of my questions. First of all, I am so glad that I am not the only one who is in this situation and am thinking of doing a second undergrad.

So my story is that I just graduated from the University of Guelph (bachelors of biological sciences). Low average, and therefore, I have to do another undergrad to be considered my the canadian medschools. As mentioned above, most of the questions I had are already answered on this thread. However, I still have a couple of queries....

 

First: Maybe I have missed it but I haven't seen or heard of anyone doing their second undergrad from the same institute as their first one. Why is that? I understand that if you do a second major from the same institute, the marks of your second undergrad just gets added to your cGPA (along with the first one) as opposed to having a complete fresh start on your transcript. But to my knowledge, most of the medschools look at your best 2 (or three) undergrad years and it shouldn't really matter how bad your cGPA is. (other than mac who will look at my previous undergrad marks too)

 

Secondly: If i do do a second undergrad, I won't be able to take the basic bio and chem courses anyways. Cause I have already taken them in my first undergrad (and schools like western don't really like when you repeat the courses). So what do I do about that? My average in those courses is in high 70s. Is that going to hinder my chances to get into medschool, given that I do well in my second undergrad?

 

I hope I made myself clear. If anything doesn't make sense, do let me know.

 

Thanks,

Vip

[SheriffLobo]

Hey Vip,

 

I can answer the first part. I did graduate from UofT, and will be starting a second degree this coming september. As the registrar has informed me, the gpa will start anew, instead of being tacked on to the first degree marks. Now, I am unaware of other university policies, but by my understanding, I thought this was standard for all uni's second degrees

 

I have no idea on how to answer the second question, as I myself am not sure and plan on getting consultation from the registrar and admissions offices from Western, Queens, McGill, etc.. Hopefully someone else may be able to answer that question.

 

That's my point of view on your concerns anyway. I think a lot of people switch institutions for their second degree just to allow for a fresh perspective on things, rather than academic technicalities, however, I may be wrong in making this assumption.

 

Hope the info helps!

 

Regards,

 

SheriffLobo

[simpy]

Hey Vip,

 

I can answer the first part. I did graduate from UofT, and will be starting a second degree this coming september. As the registrar has informed me, the gpa will start anew, instead of being tacked on to the first degree marks. Now, I am unaware of other university policies, but by my understanding, I thought this was standard for all uni's second degrees

 

I have no idea on how to answer the second question, as I myself am not sure and plan on getting consultation from the registrar and admissions offices from Western, Queens, McGill, etc.. Hopefully someone else may be able to answer that question.

 

That's my point of view on your concerns anyway. I think a lot of people switch institutions for their second degree just to allow for a fresh perspective on things, rather than academic technicalities, however, I may be wrong in making this assumption.

 

Hope the info helps!

 

Regards,

 

SheriffLobo

 

For the record, U of T will internally start your GPA anew for a second undergrad degree. However when you send in your transcripts it will show both your first and second degree, and most medical schools will count both (including U of T). More than likely, if you had a very low GPA in your first undergrad degree you will not be eligible for U of T medicine no matter what you do.

 

This applies if you go to another university to pursue a second degree. When you apply to medicine you are required to submit transcripts from both institutions. Most medical schools in Canada will look at your entire academic performance (only a few consider exceptions such as best 2 years, last 2 years, second degree only, etc).

 

Viplove to answer your second question, it really makes no difference whatsoever. Only a few OOP schools (to my knowledge) such as UBC look at prerequisite GPA. Other schools are going to evaluate you based on their stated GPA calculation formulae.

 

Lastly viplove see my post above. I get nervous when people who graduate with a low average immediately enter a second undergrad degree. There is much less margin for error in a second undergrad, so you want to be absolutely positive that you can excel in it. Given you just finished a degree with a low GPA, will you succeed now? Has everything changed?

 

I just know that I definitely needed some time away to school to find my focus and drive before starting a second undergrad.

[SheriffLobo]

For the record, U of T will internally start your GPA anew for a second undergrad degree. However when you send in your transcripts it will show both your first and second degree, and most medical schools will count both (including U of T). More than likely, if you had a very low GPA in your first undergrad degree you will not be eligible for U of T medicine no matter what you do.

 

Pretty much this. Medicine at UofT and Mac will not be possible if you're considering a second degree. I suggest taking a look at the sticky thread for a comprehensive list on second degree policies:

 

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47067

 

 

 

I get nervous when people who graduate with a low average immediately enter a second undergrad degree. There is much less margin for error in a second undergrad, so you want to be absolutely positive that you can excel in it. Given you just finished a degree with a low GPA, will you succeed now? Has everything changed?

 

I just know that I definitely needed some time away to school to find my focus and drive before starting a second undergrad.

 

I don't fully agree with this, though I can certainly see where you're coming from. It's all about what you take from your failures in the first degree. Personally, I learned a lot, and after enrolling in a post grad program for clinical research, I've honed my maturity that much more.

 

If you really REALLY want to pursue medicine here at home, there certainly are easier options if you're GPA is slightly below the cutoff, an extra year or two will work wonders, if not pursuing a graduate degree. But if a second degree is the only other option, know that there are almost zero chances for error.

P.S., I'm not sure about Guelph, but UofT doesn't allow you to do a second degree in the same field as your first degree (aka, if you graduated with a H.BSc., you can't do another H.BSc., even if you did biology the first time and want to try, say, chemistry the second) I will be pursuing a H.BA in fall with Anthropology

[viplove]

Thanks guys,

 

Thanks for your replies. I looked at the list of different universities and their take on second degree and none of em specify that it has to be from a different school. So I guess you are right sherifflobo, people just go to different schools to get a fresh start.

 

And I did think about taking a break but then I realized that it is not gonna help me in any way. I have already made my mind and would just wanna go for it without delaying it anymore. However, I see where you are coming from, simpy.

[Doc_of_Day]

Are there any disadvantages in going from a first degree in a challenging program such as engineering or chemistry to a relatively easier program like Life sciences ? Would such a transition be badly looked at ?

[thehumanmacbook]

I don't think so...usually schools do not take program "difficulty" into consideration the same way they don't care about which school you came from...only thing is GPA for that portion

[torontohopeful]

Pretty much this. Medicine at UofT and Mac will not be possible if you're considering a second degree. I suggest taking a look at the sticky thread for a comprehensive list on second degree policies:

 

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47067

 

"Not be possible" - how do you mean? If you have a second undergrad degree, you're not banned from applying are you?

[ziweiwu]

Count me into the crew, hope everyone do their best in their 2nd degree and succeed.

[Dr. Jan Intor]

Thinking about possibly doing a second degree. I called western today and they said they only look at the first degree??

 

This might be stupid, but say u did you second UG at the different university, can't u just not tell the schools that u did the first UG such that it doesnt bring down your cGPA?

[NutritionRunner]

Thinking about possibly doing a second degree. I called western today and they said they only look at the first degree??

 

This might be stupid, but say u did you second UG at the different university, can't u just not tell the schools that u did the first UG such that it doesnt bring down your cGPA?

 

Really, really bad idea. Lying on an application is not only stupid, but dishonest. Not the type of traits they are looking for in future physicians. Also, most of the time you will get transfer credits that you can apply towards your second degree.

 

Between my first degree and my second degree I took some university courses "for fun" as a non-degree student. I still have to disclose those courses, and provide transcripts from the universities where I took those courses, when applying to medical schools. I have to provide every single transcript from every university where I have ever studied, even though a bunch of those courses were only taken for my own interest, and did not apply towards any degree program. So I have to submit transcripts from Carleton, Athabasca, and Waterloo, even though I only took one or two courses at each, in addition to providing the transcripts from my first and second degrees. To make things even more complicated, although I have a degree from Guelph, when I was taking distance education courses at Guelph as a non-degree student (between my two degrees), I was considered an "open learning" student, so I have to submit a separate transcript from the office of open learning at Guelph, in addition to my "actual" Guelph transcript from the university!