The Second Degree Crew

[NWOsw]

I'm unsure what degree you would hoping your second would be, however Lakehead offers a great selection of distance courses being that it is so remote. Could be worth checking as well.

[anna8]

I did my biol/chem at UNBC and I've done the psyc by correspondence through TRU (Thompson Rivers University) which was formerly BCOU. What province are you in?

 

I'm in BC as well. I'm doing my second degree in Psych at UBC.

[AndreaM]

I'm in BC as well. I'm doing my second degree in Psych at UBC.

 

Are you applying to med this year?

[Rayven]

It seems like Psych is a popular undergrad choice. I've considered doing my undergrad in psych because I found the courses really interesting and not time consuming (no labs). But what deters me from pursuing a BA in psych is that should I not get into medical school, it's one of the least marketable degrees.. probably just above liberal arts. Anyone else really concerned about that?

[123coco]

For all the 2nd degree-ers..

Iam just curious, why havent alote of you looked at international schools? ireland, uk, car, hungry, etc?

 

was it a money issue?pride? you wanted a specialty?

for the 4 yrs invested for a 2nd undergrad degree, you can practically (probably less) invest the same time after getting a IM degree and try and land a residency spot here.....

 

I thought about pursuing medicine in other places but really just want the flexibility to practice anywhere without being told "your credential aren't recognized here or you must write X exam first and then do Y&Z".

________

Glass weed pipe

[Rayven]

I thought about pursuing medicine in other places but really just want the flexibility to practice anywhere without being told "your credential aren't recognized here or you must write X exam first and then do Y&Z".

Well a Canadian MD allows you to practice anywhere... in Canada. You still have to jump through hoops to practice in the States or Australia or Ireland or.. or.. anywhere. lol

 

IMGs just have a really hard time matching into anything competitive. They tend to fill up all of the family meds openings.

 

DOs seem to be becoming more and more equal to a MD in Canada. There are still 2 or 3 provinces that restrict their practice however.

[AndreaM]

It seems like Psych is a popular undergrad choice. I've considered doing my undergrad in psych because I found the courses really interesting and not time consuming (no labs). But what deters me from pursuing a BA in psych is that should I not get into medical school, it's one of the least marketable degrees.. probably just above liberal arts. Anyone else really concerned about that?

 

A BA in psych won't get you far in the working world, but if you do a clinical masters then you have a lot more options and can work as a councellor in hospitals, rehab programs or in private practice. I'm mostly taking it because I like school and it is available via distance ed.

 

Living in a small town where forestry is predominant, my BSc in biol and chem didn't help me much either. Now I work as a residential care worker and while my psyc courses help with it, all I really needed to be qualified was my grade 12, food safe and first aid.

[Slashsev01]

Yea, that has always been the problem in the back of my mind... (doing masters now)..

 

go back to undergrad =2-3 yrs (n write mcats, etc)...

apply = waste another year=3- 4 years (and get accepted if your lucky)

 

or

 

go international= after master= 0 years

apply= most schools take applicats 2-3 cycles per year= 0.5 years (ie december)..

 

do 4 years, then write the exact same tests I have to write here or us. Your undergrad medschool is not really looked at and grouped together (your an IMG..period...like undergrad) and test scores= #1

 

With respect to competitive rez (which is a concern for both here and us)...i know the chances are low, but if I have the drive and motivation..there are alote of success stories..alote of people here have shown that determination and maturity that helped them get accepted to that field (or a great connection), alote of people have done masters and worked for many years..and it seems like "these kind of people" are able to get positions in the harder specialties, something I dont believe any normal undergrad student graduating after 4 years and going international (bc they had a bad gpa) would really have. With all due respect

 

Not only that you saved 2-3 years...thats 2-3 years of research in that specialty your interested in, thats 2-3years of making connections at that hospital your interested in, and iam sure that will play a factor in picking you for a specialized field

 

Aside from money (even though u can go to med in hungry for 8K)...I dont understand spending so much time here..

 

I know alote more students going international then I do of canadian students getting accepted in their own country.

 

For me its like, invest another 3 years for a lottary or invest 0 years and get accepted now, be a doctor, and worry about the spec. later.

[anna8]

Are you applying to med this year?

 

Nope, I'm applying next year to do more substantial ECs. How about you?

 

Actually I am "afraid" of the job prospects after finishing this degree. I agree that a probable back up plan for me is to be a clinical psychologist, I would be interested in that if things don't work out for me.

[Rayven]

A BA in psych won't get you far in the working world, but if you do a clinical masters then you have a lot more options and can work as a councellor in hospitals, rehab programs or in private practice. I'm mostly taking it because I like school and it is available via distance ed.

 

Living in a small town where forestry is predominant, my BSc in biol and chem didn't help me much either. Now I work as a residential care worker and while my psyc courses help with it, all I really needed to be qualified was my grade 12, food safe and first aid.

That's what scares me most about Psych and Life Sci undergrad degrees. They are by far what I find the most interesting. I suppose some people actually do like taking algorithms, calculus, finite, discrete math for engineering or comp sci... but really, I don't think I find it nearly as interesting as bio/psych courses. But you're way more likely to find a job with a math-related degree than you are with psych and life sci.

 

I mentioned before that I did do some life sci before switching programs and I constantly worried that my bad performance then would never come off no matter how well i do from then on. Even if I took engineering and got a 4.0 or something, I always worried that adcoms would see the lets say 2.0 in the pre-req life sci courses.

[Rayven]

Yea, that has always been the problem in the back of my mind... (doing masters now)..

 

go back to undergrad =2-3 yrs (n write mcats, etc)...

apply = waste another year=3- 4 years (and get accepted if your lucky)

 

or

 

go international= after master= 0 years

apply= most schools take applicats 2-3 cycles per year= 0.5 years (ie december)..

 

do 4 years, then write the exact same tests I have to write here or us. Your undergrad medschool is not really looked at and grouped together (your an IMG..period...like undergrad) and test scores= #1

I'm confused.. how does going international = after master = 0 years? But going back to do a second degree and re-applying suddenly equals 5-7 years?

 

The problem is the IMG status.

 

That.. and a lot of the popular international med schools (ie Caribb, Ireland, Australia) cost an arm and a leg and another limb. Whereas Canadian and US med school graduates are more or less guaranteed a job.. their international counterpart is not. And being $300,000 in debt is no laughing matter.

 

With respect to competitive rez (which is a concern for both here and us)...i know the chances are low, but if I have the drive and motivation..there are alote of success stories..alote of people here have shown that determination and maturity that helped them get accepted to that field (or a great connection), alote of people have done masters and worked for many years..and it seems like "these kind of people" are able to get positions in the harder specialties, something I dont believe any normal undergrad student graduating after 4 years and going international (bc they had a bad gpa) would really have. With all due respect

 

Not only that you saved 2-3 years...thats 2-3 years of research in that specialty your interested in, thats 2-3years of making connections at that hospital your interested in, and iam sure that will play a factor in picking you for a specialized field

Just to clarify, in this section are you advocating that it's not a waste of time to do master's (like you) before applying to these international med schools because you'd have more maturity and determination than a regular undergrad? The fact is that most international med schools don't care if you did a master's. You just need a GPA of around 3.0 and $$$.

 

No offense and correct me if i'm wrong.. but it just seems to me like you're just trying justify to yourself that doing your master's before applying international wasn't a waste of time...

 

Aside from money (even though u can go to med in hungry for 8K)...I dont understand spending so much time here..

 

I know alote more students going international then I do of canadian students getting accepted in their own country.

Of course you know more students going international than you do that stay... >.>

 

In total Canada's med schools probably take in about 1,000 med students per year. St. George med school in the Caribbean alone takes in like 600 students per year on a rolling admissions system.

 

For me its like, invest another 3 years for a lottary or invest 0 years and get accepted now, be a doctor, and worry about the spec. later.

Then go.

 

But the thing is, there are definitely some success stories of people going abroad but for every success story there is probably 500.. not so.. success stories. Like the story that kept being brought up like a rule when it was really just the exception about the one Carib med student who was able to transfer into a MD school in the States. And lastly, as determined and mature as you are, you will still be competing with all the other IMGs that were determined and mature enough to get to that stage for the limited spots.

 

Anyways, I don't think all the crap international med schools get is worthy but there's definitely truth somewhere in there and it's clear why many of the brightest people (us premeds of course ) opt to keep applying within the country before thinking of applying abroad.

[unknown user 7]

It seems like Psych is a popular undergrad choice. I've considered doing my undergrad in psych because I found the courses really interesting and not time consuming (no labs). But what deters me from pursuing a BA in psych is that should I not get into medical school, it's one of the least marketable degrees.. probably just above liberal arts. Anyone else really concerned about that?

 

Well, if you feel like a B.Sc in biology, chemistry or the like is more useful then you could do neuropsych/ neurobio which I believe is a common program now at most schools, although I'm pretty sure its more bio and chem than anything. Another option is just do a B.Sc in psychology, again there may be completely different focus in the B.Sc psych versus your typical BA psych.

[Toodlee]

Does your school have a Bsc. in Psychology? I think you are right with it being the least marketable degree as just an undergrad, which is prob why many people go on to do their grad degrees or go into professional schools. If I could go back in time I would have done my undergrad in psych only b/c I find it vastly interesting and diverse in the different topics it addresses but I would do the Bsc. that way I could get my med pre-reqs done and have the flexibility of doing a MSc. if I wanted to. Just my .02

[AndreaM]

Nope, I'm applying next year to do more substantial ECs. How about you?

 

Actually I am "afraid" of the job prospects after finishing this degree. I agree that a probable back up plan for me is to be a clinical psychologist, I would be interested in that if things don't work out for me.

 

I'm applying this year. I took a few years off from applying, had two more kids, tried out a few jobs, worked on my ECs and did course work by correspondence. Technically this will be my fourth try, but I only count it as my third, because last time I applied my mcat scores weren't released for some reason and my application wasn't considered.

 

I worked as part of the research team at a small pharmacuetical company in Vancouver for 2 years and loved it, but didn't love Vancouver, so we moved back north and I ran a family daycare for 2 years and hated it soooooo much. Now I work in residential care and while it's pretty boring the pay and hours aren't bad.

[Slashsev01]

=0 years because I can apply in august (this is with respect to nxt year ) and get accepted in dec. n start in jan/feb.

 

With 2nd undergrad= 2-3 years of school already...

plus the application year...apply after year 3..u get accepted 1 year later. Ross etc. have 3 rounds of admission...ie apply after year 3...n get accepted in 4-5 months.

 

With respect to masters, (I already know I made a mistake..ahhhaa) so not here to justify. But it seems alote of those specialties, require good marks (pass??), top scores, and research /ref letters (yes IMG go 2nd round..but if spots are open)

 

Working in a toronto hospital...for research/ref letters..say after year 1 or 2 of med..

 

there is a def advantage to take someone with lab experience (some one who has a msc or phd) than someone who doesnt. Thats how you build one aspect of your application...this case being the "connection"- ref letters and experience within that field and hospital setting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm confused.. how does going international = after master = 0 years? But going back to do a second degree and re-applying suddenly equals 5-7 years?

 

The problem is the IMG status.

 

That.. and a lot of the popular international med schools (ie Caribb, Ireland, Australia) cost an arm and a leg and another limb. Whereas Canadian and US med school graduates are more or less guaranteed a job.. their international counterpart is not. And being $300,000 in debt is no laughing matter.

 

 

Just to clarify, in this section are you advocating that it's not a waste of time to do master's (like you) before applying to these international med schools because you'd have more maturity and determination than a regular undergrad? The fact is that most international med schools don't care if you did a master's. You just need a GPA of around 3.0 and $$$.

 

No offense and correct me if i'm wrong.. but it just seems to me like you're just trying justify to yourself that doing your master's before applying international wasn't a waste of time...

 

 

Of course you know more students going international than you do that stay... >.>

 

In total Canada's med schools probably take in about 1,000 med students per year. St. George med school in the Caribbean alone takes in like 600 students per year on a rolling admissions system.

 

 

Then go.

 

But the thing is, there are definitely some success stories of people going abroad but for every success story there is probably 500.. not so.. success stories. Like the story that kept being brought up like a rule when it was really just the exception about the one Carib med student who was able to transfer into a MD school in the States. And lastly, as determined and mature as you are, you will still be competing with all the other IMGs that were determined and mature enough to get to that stage for the limited spots.

 

Anyways, I don't think all the crap international med schools get is worthy but there's definitely truth somewhere in there and it's clear why many of the brightest people (us premeds of course ) opt to keep applying within the country before thinking of applying abroad.

[Rayven]

=0 years because I can apply in august (this is with respect to nxt year ) and get accepted in dec. n start in jan/feb.

 

With 2nd undergrad= 2-3 years of school already...

plus the application year...apply after year 3..u get accepted 1 year later. Ross etc. have 3 rounds of admission...ie apply after year 3...n get accepted in 4-5 months.

Oh I see. You were talking about yourself. It's just that I thought you were talking about either doing more undergrad or masters.. not if one should do undergrad after a masters. You brought up your friends who wasted time being unable to get into Canadian med schools and so I thought this was more of a general post.

 

With respect to masters, (I already know I made a mistake..ahhhaa) so not here to justify. But it seems alote of those specialties, require good marks (pass??), top scores, and research /ref letters (yes IMG go 2nd round..but if spots are open)

 

Working in a toronto hospital...for research/ref letters..say after year 1 or 2 of med..

 

there is a def advantage to take someone with lab experience (some one who has a msc or phd) than someone who doesnt. Thats how you build one aspect of your application...this case being the "connection"- ref letters and experience within that field and hospital setting.

I think in terms of ref letters they're more interested in getting letters from the people/doctors you did electives with by this point. I honestly don't know how much weight a masters has in terms of competing for a residency. Some masters aren't even research based, they're course based so how would that be looked at then? Personally, I think the process is tailored around candidates with good connections, references from electives, and from what I've read, possibly some research done during med school in that particular field.

[Slashsev01]

I think in terms of ref letters they're more interested in getting letters from the people/doctors you did electives with by this point. I honestly don't know how much weight a masters has in terms of competing for a residency. Some masters aren't even research based, they're course based so how would that be looked at then? Personally, I think the process is tailored around candidates with good connections, references from electives, and from what I've read, possibly some research done during med school in that particular field.

 

 

That was exactly what I was talking about....during medschool..

getingt those positions (ie lab in derma) after 1st year med..would be much easier with someone who has lab exerience (and not just the technique, but have an uinderstanding of what a lab setting) than someone who doesnt...

 

if i had an md looking for students to do summer research..i would rather pick an msc med student than a normal med student...even if he was international

[2011hope]

Hi,

 

I was wondering who else was working on their second undergrad degree? Bonding moment! Doing a second degree involves a lot of sucking of my pride personally but there is a some value in going in with a mindset of "knowing what you're here for".

 

Any other insight?

 

 

 

I'm about to start a 2nd undergraduate degree as well. I need to write the mcat again also but am not sure when I will do that as my degree is full-time with no summer breaks. I'm wondering how feasible it will be for me to study for the mcat while taking 33 credits hmmmm. I was actually just 3 weeks away from writing the mcat this past summer (had an aug 6th booking) but my dad got really sick and I spent most of those weeks dealing with that and not studying.

[nursea]

I currently completed my teaching degree which was a one year program, along with 2 other degrees previously to increase my chances of getting into medical school. I have emailed a few medical schools, which I am still waiting for a response, but does anyone know if a one year teaching degree is given any merit in the GPA process.

 

Thanks

[rmorelan]

I currently completed my teaching degree which was a one year program, along with 2 other degrees previously to increase my chances of getting into medical school. I have emailed a few medical schools, which I am still waiting for a response, but does anyone know if a one year teaching degree is given any merit in the GPA process.

 

Thanks

 

You can always make any further education an asset in the process, but there are rules about specific programs in Ontario counting towards your GPA. Somewhere in the OMSAS manual its states that:

 

Normally,

only undergraduate university credit courses from

member institutions of the Association of Universities

and Colleges of Canada (AUCC) are included in the

OMSAS grade point average (GPA). The following

courses of study are not normally included in the

OMSAS GPA: naturopathic and chiropractic medicine,

consecutive Bachelor of Education programs, college

courses (even if transfer credit is granted), challenge for

credit courses, diploma or certificate programs, graduate

courses, and undergraduate courses taken as part of a

graduate program.

[Toodlee]

I'm about to start a 2nd undergraduate degree as well. I need to write the mcat again also but am not sure when I will do that as my degree is full-time with no summer breaks. I'm wondering how feasible it will be for me to study for the mcat while taking 33 credits hmmmm. I was actually just 3 weeks away from writing the mcat this past summer (had an aug 6th booking) but my dad got really sick and I spent most of those weeks dealing with that and not studying.

 

Hey,

 

I think its doable. When r u looking to rewrite it? Sept? Was your first degree in science?

[Halcyon]

I currently completed my teaching degree which was a one year program, along with 2 other degrees previously to increase my chances of getting into medical school. I have emailed a few medical schools, which I am still waiting for a response, but does anyone know if a one year teaching degree is given any merit in the GPA process.

 

Thanks

 

Hey there,

 

Depends where you did your B.Ed. Did you complete it in Ontario? The one-year B.Ed. programs in Ontario generally do not count towards you cGPA. Again, it depends on the individual B.Ed. program and the med school if they will count it.

 

I did a fair bit of research into this, as I was considering doing a B.Ed. myself.

 

Good luck!

 

Haly

[2011hope]

Hey,

 

I think its doable. When r u looking to rewrite it? Sept? Was your first degree in science?

 

My first degree was a B.H.Sc.Hon at McMaster. I feel very weak in physics and just ok in chem. bio and verbal im good with. I'm gonna see how school feels workload wise and see what I can do.

[Toodlee]

I think you have write one of the Sept. sittings in order to have your results count for this application cycle. Since you have a basic science background I don't think it should take you too long to prep but give yourself the time. Whatever you do, do not make my fatal error and sign up for a prep course. Good luck!

[alnew]

I won't be eligible to apply until next year so I'm considering doing another undergrad. My current degree is a BSC in Psychology. Unfortuately I do not know what I should do my second degree in. I have lots of varied interest like fine arts and English (writing and literature) but when they translate into courses they're not very rewarding (I've taken those courses before), I like Biology as well. I really don't want to do a masters...I think, to be frank I haven't reasearched that option as much as I should have. I'm very confused and feeling a little tired because ANOTHER year of school has begun. It feels like I'll be in undergrad forever. /rant