hungryjoe Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Hey all, Kind of a non-issue, but one that's been bugging me and I'd like to hear opinions. For a long while I've wanted to get a tattoo; nothing huge, just a nice subtle black based design (no symbols, words, identifying features, etc.) on my left medial arm. During clinic, office and most other times it would completely covered, but things like surgery, minor procedures etc. would be pretty telling. So the question goes... should I care? I know it won't be a make-or-break deal either way with teachers, patients et. al, but as a newbie clerk do you think the potential hassle would outweigh the benefits? Am I being overly paranoid? That is all. Cheers peeps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 I got a small henna tattoo on my hand during my peds clerkship, and it did attract stares, as well as a question from a parent. That being said, I know several people going through medical school with a tattoo that peeks out from under short scrubs sleeves. If you are concerned about the attention, you may wait until you are done with all scrubs-wearing rotations, as one classmate did. Or you could wear a cover-up hoodie or OR gown around except for the times that you need to be in scrubs only. Or you could use Dermablend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 However many docs and alot of patients DO CARE. Complaints about professionalism do come about many medical students. The tattoo idea may not be horrible...just wait til after clerkship. And men...please remove earings, hide major tattoos and cut pony tails/long hair before starting clerkship (at least when in hospital when seeing patients). Let me quote a classmate's FB status... elective, day number 2: "i'm surprised at your good personal hygiene. many med students who come through..well, they really make me wonder. some of them have probably never touched an iron in their lives" ... and "do you want a reference letter for caRMS? I can write you a pretty strong one. just let me know" ... score!! first letter in the bag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sv3 Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 if you can earn respect based on your skills and personality before the tattoo is visible or before you are comfortable with showing it, it shouldn't be an issue. I have a few major tattoos on my arms that are visible if I wear short sleeves and I worked in a very conservative corporate environment for 5 yrs. Because my supervisors (including VPs) already knew about my capabilities, when I flaunted the tats, they actually complimented them (and no, they weren't turning around and calling me names.....). So if you can get the respect first, it shouldnt matter. Of course you can just not care about opinions and show them off right away. To me, its all about how you carry yourself. If your professional, courteous, and mature, most people won't care. The few that do......well they will always exist. I know some posters above mentioned professionalism but i don't think a tatto means you are unprofessional - like i said, its about how you act and interact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 There are medical students at my school that have nose rings, males with hoop rings, and eyebrow rings in addition to tattoos. Some guys wear dressy jeans to clinic and some girls wear clubbing clothes to work. Ugh. The odd subtle piercing is okay, but dressy jeans? That's an oxymoron. Younger nurses seem to get away with it, which I suppose is better than yoga pants... maybe. I don't think tattoos should matter a great deal so long as they're (a) not too large and ( not clearly inappropriate in content. Because docs don't want the hassle of complaining (and having a whining student complain that their freedom of expression is being limited, which has happened), most let it slide. Students do know how to whine... However many docs and alot of patients DO CARE. Complaints about professionalism do come about many medical students. The tattoo idea may not be horrible...just wait til after clerkship. And men...please remove earings, hide major tattoos and cut pony tails/long hair before starting clerkship (at least when in hospital when seeing patients). And women, please cover up your cleavage reasonably, and avoid wearing very tight short skirts. It's amazing how many people ignore this basic common sense. Nothing is more awkward than sitting down with a medical student and telling them to dress less thuggish or less slutty. All very sound advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Medical professionals are notoriously superficially judgmental. You could be Osler himself and if you walked in somewhere with a tattoo on your arm and long hair, they'd call you "that guy with the tattoo and hair", regardless of the fact that your medical knowledge is extremely superior to your peers. Relying on being impressive via superior knowledge or ability is a pretty dumbass strategy for a med student. It's like we know anything starting out. About all you can do is "look the part". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 I'd shy away from a tattoo you can see in scrubs. Too much hassle from attendings and patients. You could always get one on your shoulder blade or something. Then it would only be visible if you decided to whip your shirt off during clinic. Also, I need to post this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Or rather that starting med students don't know anything and shouldn't expect to impress while showing up with all kinds of piercings and tattoos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdai Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Did you know tramp stamps and huge yazuka tattoos across the back cause all sorts of complications when you need to do a LP or epidural if said slut gets pregnant and wants pain during birth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Did you know tramp stamps and huge yazuka tattoos across the back cause all sorts of complications when you need to do a LP or epidural if said slut gets pregnant and wants pain during birth? Actually no I didn't! Although people making lifestyle choices that make is harder for med professionals to do their jobs isn't anything new What is the source of the issue - difficultly landmarking, or some form of contamination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Did you know tramp stamps and huge yazuka tattoos across the back cause all sorts of complications when you need to do a LP or epidural if said slut gets pregnant and wants pain during birth? Oooh. Nasty. I am a million miles away from being a Dr but logic tells me that it helps to have things like empathy, understanding and respect for one's patients. Let's just say that it creates a good foundation... Assuming that all women with tatoos are sluts is, err, judgemental to say the least. And for the record I actually don't like tattoos either but I respect the actions / decisions of others. My wife got a tattoo several years ago, and yes, it was an issue during delivery of our children. But no, she's not a slut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sv3 Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Medical school should be more about learning and less about subjectively impressing people. Of course, how you look is far more important than how hard you work or what you know - I have never denied this. It's just an unfortunate reality. Listen up, clerkies! Looking hot and prim>>>>work ethic, intelligence, and knowledge. I can't agree as its too much of a blanket statement. If you look the part and are a total prick in the way you carry yourself, and then compare that to someone with a visible tattoo who is known for being a great people person, i highly doubt the former is the doctor that comes to be respected. unless you are dealing with extremes i don't think your statement is accurate and more a reflection of those idiot tv doctor shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
street_med Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Did you know tramp stamps and huge yazuka tattoos across the back cause all sorts of complications when you need to do a LP or epidural if said slut gets pregnant and wants pain during birth? HAHA! "said slut" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sv3 Posted November 13, 2009 Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Did you know tramp stamps and huge yazuka tattoos across the back cause all sorts of complications when you need to do a LP or epidural if said slut gets pregnant and wants pain during birth? your future patients are so lucky........wow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hungryjoe Posted November 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2009 Thanks for all the great advice!! I think the following sums up my thinking at the mo. I can't agree as its too much of a blanket statement. If you look the part and are a total prick in the way you carry yourself, and then compare that to someone with a visible tattoo who is known for being a great people person, i highly doubt the former is the doctor that comes to be respected. unless you are dealing with extremes i don't think your statement is accurate and more a reflection of those idiot tv doctor shows. I like to think I'm clean-cut and respectful of patients and colleagues, so hopefully I could get by with the tattoo, but who knows, right? Why take the risk if it's not a big deal? So this is where this leaves me. a. Damn the torpedos and get the tattoo - recognizing that it may have an insidious impact on future evaluations from attendings and leering suspicion from patients. b. Move the tattoo to an area unseen even in scrubs. c. Don't get the tattoo OR.... and let me know what you think of this!! d. Get the tattoo on my arm, and make damn sure that I am always carrying a lightweight, smartish-looking long/snug (breathable! I know, it would get hot under scrubs/gowns) shirt on me to wear under scrubs, so that even if attendings know I have the tattoo, they can rest assured that I won't be 'showing it off' to patients or other docs. Thanks again all you wonderful people you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sv3 Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Thanks for all the great advice!! I think the following sums up my thinking at the mo. I like to think I'm clean-cut and respectful of patients and colleagues, so hopefully I could get by with the tattoo, but who knows, right? Why take the risk if it's not a big deal? So this is where this leaves me. a. Damn the torpedos and get the tattoo - recognizing that it may have an insidious impact on future evaluations from attendings and leering suspicion from patients. b. Move the tattoo to an area unseen even in scrubs. c. Don't get the tattoo OR.... and let me know what you think of this!! d. Get the tattoo on my arm, and make damn sure that I am always carrying a lightweight, smartish-looking long/snug (breathable! I know, it would get hot under scrubs/gowns) shirt on me to wear under scrubs, so that even if attendings know I have the tattoo, they can rest assured that I won't be 'showing it off' to patients or other docs. Thanks again all you wonderful people you! you gotto make the call yourself bud. If its important to you, i would get it. You don't need to "lose" yourself because your worried about some opinions that may or may not come to fruition. Mine are on my shoulders down to my elbow (upper arm) and I have never had a problem (mind you, I'm in the corporate world but I think its just as superficial if not moreso than the medical field). I wouldn't put them on your wrists or forearms b/c that's just too unavoidable. Use your discretion. the fact that you posted about this means you care what others think so that says something - likely that an extravagant tattoo in a very visible area will make you self-conscious. I would never post about something this personal cause I have more of the "Eff you if you don't like me" attitude but at the same time, my tattoos are easily the most outrageous things about me - very clean cut, etc etc. gluck with your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ploughboy Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Clerkship lasts for two years, residency for five (+/- fellowship). Tattoos last forever. If it''s *that* important to you, but you're *that* concerned about how others in the medical hierarchy will view you, could the tattoo maybe wait a few years? Crazy idea, I know... pb /has not read entire thread So this is where this leaves me. a. Damn the torpedos and get the tattoo - recognizing that it may have an insidious impact on future evaluations from attendings and leering suspicion from patients. b. Move the tattoo to an area unseen even in scrubs. c. Don't get the tattoo OR.... and let me know what you think of this!! d. Get the tattoo on my arm, and make damn sure that I am always carrying a lightweight, smartish-looking long/snug (breathable! I know, it would get hot under scrubs/gowns) shirt on me to wear under scrubs, so that even if attendings know I have the tattoo, they can rest assured that I won't be 'showing it off' to patients or other docs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astudentis Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 there are ALWAYS going to be people that are going to judge you based on what you do AS A PROFESSIONAL... whether it be to them (as patients) or it be to yourself Question is do you "care" of what others think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lactic Folly Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 If you're scrubbing in, you wouldn't be able to wear anything that covers your arms more than a short-sleeved t-shirt underneath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 You wouldn't want to wear much more than that anyhow - it'd be too hot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_B Posted November 14, 2009 Report Share Posted November 14, 2009 Reality is, there will be some people who will judge you based on appearance. Strike that, EVERYONE will judge you based on appearance, at least initially. If you look unprofessional from the get go, then you are already starting at a disadvantage with said patient or preceptor. You may wish to express yourself, but fact is, you are in a field where you are expected to (by some) look a certain way. Does it make sense to me, no. Does that change the fact that it happens, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Cloak Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 The hubby described med school (and the medical profession in general) like joining a cult. He didn't mean it in a bad way (I hope!) What he meant was that you are joining a professional body that will, in certain respects, mould the way that you behave and even the beliefs that you hold. Med students will be educated in the way to think about ethics, professionalism and even, in certain limited circumstances, be told what is right and wrong. Whether you fundamentally agree or not, you are expected by the professional body to behave in a certain way. (As an example, take the rigorous Catholic family doctor who abhors abortion - s/he certainly can hold this belief, but they can't interfere with his/her patients procuring the procedure). Fortunately or unfortunately, the medical profession is a very visible one. You are dealing with patients, and patients are people. And people tend to make snap decisions. Part of your job (for better or worse) is to engender confidence in your patients (it's called building a therapeutic relationship) so that you can treat them better. You could be the best surgeon in the world, but if your patient doesn't trust you any further than she can throw you, she won't let you operate on her. It's not enough to be a great doctor . . . your patients have to trust that you're a great doctor. And this is where looking/sounding the part becomes so important. Would your patients be put off by a tattoo? I don't know. That's a decision you need to make for yourself. Certainly we (doctors) joke about the low "tooth-to-tattoo" ratio being a sign of trouble in an incoming patient - they're expected to be more complex, less compliant, less well educated, more likely to harbor infectious disease or dependencies. If you're uncertain, I'd recommend more reflection - you can always add a tattoo, but it's hard to take it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbene085 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 This is the way I see it. It's a balance between how much the tattoo means to you (e.g. some people I know got tattoos after the passing of a loved one) and how you want to be perceived, by both doctors and patients. While many doctors don't mind, think about your patients. A 75 year-old woman with a broken pelvis is being seen by a med student before being wheeled into the OR. Will someone with visible tattoos contribute to her anxiety? Quite possibly. Now make it a 25 year-old football played coming in for a knee repair. He probably wouldn't have any issues at all, and might actually like it. I'm thinking of a tattoo myself, but I don't think I'd want it to show when in scrubs. When a patient is in distress heading into the OR, I want to do everything I can to inspire confidence and relieve anxiety. But that's a personal choice. If the tattoo meant enough to me, maybe I'd feel differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JewelLeigh Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 This is the way I see it. It's a balance between how much the tattoo means to you (e.g. some people I know got tattoos after the passing of a loved one) and how you want to be perceived, by both doctors and patients. While many doctors don't mind, think about your patients. A 75 year-old woman with a broken pelvis is being seen by a med student before being wheeled into the OR. Will someone with visible tattoos contribute to her anxiety? Quite possibly. Now make it a 25 year-old football played coming in for a knee repair. He probably wouldn't have any issues at all, and might actually like it. I'm thinking of a tattoo myself, but I don't think I'd want it to show when in scrubs. When a patient is in distress heading into the OR, I want to do everything I can to inspire confidence and relieve anxiety. But that's a personal choice. If the tattoo meant enough to me, maybe I'd feel differently. What a thoughtful response. I completely agree. We have chosen a serving profession, and part of serving patients involves reassurance, instilling trust and confidence at a time that is often very frightening to patients. If there is a chance that a tattoo could take away from your ability to serve patients in this way (because yes, there are patients out there, who, like it or not, will see a tattoo as a negative), I would think twice. A revered pediatrician at Dal gave us a talk early in medical school about this topic, and quoted a study (which I have never got around to tracking down) about patient trust. It had patients rate the trustworthiness of doctors wearing different outfits. Hands-down the doctors dressed most respectfully (eg. a male wearing a shirt, tie and lab coat, a female wearing a button up shirt, slacks and a lab coat) were found to be the most trustworthy by patients. The pediatrician's point was that gaining a patient's trust allows you to serve them better, so if you can do this by dressing and appearing professional, we owe it to patients to make this effort in order. While I would love for appearances to not make such a difference (I get a lot of "you're too young to be a doctor!"), they do, and so I personally make an effort to dress and appear in a manner that (I hope) most patients would find respectful and professional. For me, this includes making sure my tattoo (mistake made at 18!) is covered. As a side note, consider commercials for medical products. The "doctors" promoting these products/drugs in commercials are always clean-cut, dressed conservatively and have lab coats on....the marketing side of the same trust we are discussing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sv3 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 What a thoughtful response. I completely agree. We have chosen a serving profession, and part of serving patients involves reassurance, instilling trust and confidence at a time that is often very frightening to patients. If there is a chance that a tattoo could take away from your ability to serve patients in this way (because yes, there are patients out there, who, like it or not, will see a tattoo as a negative), I would think twice. A revered pediatrician at Dal gave us a talk early in medical school about this topic, and quoted a study (which I have never got around to tracking down) about patient trust. It had patients rate the trustworthiness of doctors wearing different outfits. Hands-down the doctors dressed most respectfully (eg. a male wearing a shirt, tie and lab coat, a female wearing a button up shirt, slacks and a lab coat) were found to be the most trustworthy by patients. The pediatrician's point was that gaining a patient's trust allows you to serve them better, so if you can do this by dressing and appearing professional, we owe it to patients to make this effort in order. While I would love for appearances to not make such a difference (I get a lot of "you're too young to be a doctor!"), they do, and so I personally make an effort to dress and appear in a manner that (I hope) most patients would find respectful and professional. For me, this includes making sure my tattoo (mistake made at 18!) is covered. As a side note, consider commercials for medical products. The "doctors" promoting these products/drugs in commercials are always clean-cut, dressed conservatively and have lab coats on....the marketing side of the same trust we are discussing! very insightful. Yet, I can't help but think that doctors are not martyrs. There will always be patients that don't like you based on individual prejudices. You can't appease everyone right? I'm sure there might be a study out there on how thinner doctors appear more healthy than obese doctors and thus instill confidence in their patients. So are obese doctors worse? Of course not. Will someone tell them "lose weight to instill more confidence in your patients?" I doubt it. And you know how far this could go (what else might someone not like about you?) I guess its a matter of conforming or actually being yourself and breaking the typical mold - which takes more courage. I'd like to think I want to help patients as much as someone without tatoos but frankly, and this may sound cold to some of you, but if a patient is going to look down on me for my appearance, so be it. If they don't want me to treat them b/c of it, fine. There are many patients out there and if a few don't like you for superficial reasons, i think you have to learn to deal with it. Regardless if you have tatoos or not, how smart you are, or how you look, there will always be someone who doesn't like you - if you think otherwise I'd suggest learning how to read others a bit better. just a fact of life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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