Any advice on what a twenty something should do?

[ironicbond]

Hi, first time poster. This forum is awesome. I could really use any sort of feedback

 

For the last while or so, I've considered quitting from my career in design. I've been moving up from small firms in Toronto to bigger agencies in NYC. However, I don't love what I do nor see myself in this field ten years from now. Instead, I've been considering going into medicine.

 

Thing is, my undergrad marks are below average (3.2). Design, being a subjective field and major, is not a degree that's friendly towards the GPA (at least at the school I went to). 4.0's were an extreme rarity.

 

That said, I got 4.0's in the electives such as psychology and astronomy.

 

With the competition in applying, I know there is very little chance of making it to med school with a low average. McMaster is probably the only one in Ontario that would even bother looking at my application. Yet, I don't have exceptional volunteer experience nor enough years under my belt (26 years old) to really talk about life experiences that puts me ahead of people younger than me. The only experience I have is four years in the industry and working experience at two reputable firms. That said, it feels a pipe dream.

 

Since I missed the mark on applying for the 2010-2011 year, I'm trying to prepare myself for the future. While still working full-time, I'm going to start volunteering at health related institutions in NYC to see a little bit more first hand on what the health field is like and how much I really want this. I've started studying for the MCAT to see how well I'm doing and judging if I could potentially do well at school again.

 

After that, I feel like I have a couple options:

1) Take the MCAT this year, attempt to do extremely well in the verbal reasoning section and apply to McMaster next year with more volunteer experience under my belt. With that GPA though... extremely slim chance of acceptance.

 

2) Apply to for a undergrad program in Biology or Psychology at another university (probably York), and spend three years focusing on improving marks, getting pre reqs, and volunteering under my belt. The thought of going to school for three more years on top of med school/residency is daunting... but I feel like this is what has the most potential for success in the long term. Plus, I loved taking psych courses back in Uni.

 

3) Go to a foreign school with a pre-med program/lower requirements. I personally don't like this because I want to practice/work in Canada and I don't want to go to a subpar college, but it would potentially save three to four years of school. My dad (a physician) threw this at me as some of his patients have taken this route.

 

Anyways, if anyone has a word of advice or even alternative course of actions, please let me have it!

[asIam]

Hi there. It's nice to see another twenty-something lost in this race. (:

 

I wouldn't bother with your option 1. McMaster is renown to be a GPA-is-king school.

 

Your second option is most likely your best option if you plan to attend med school in North America. Keep in mind that some med schools have special weighting formulas, in particular Western, Queen's, Dalhousie, Saskatchewan, Ottawa in which only your best or last 2 years may be looked out instead of your entire cGPA. Also if money isn't too much of a problem, I'd suggest going to university in another province that has a more favourable in-province admissions/cut-offs.

 

Your third option is.. well.. an option. People have gone away and come back as practising doctors whereas some didn't come back as such. If you feel like you're mature enough and you can afford it then going overseas might not be such a bad idea. You'll end up writing the same exams either ways but this way you'll save the 2-4 years of doing another UG.

 

By the way, can I shadow your dad?

[ironicbond]

Yeah I mentioned McMaster because they do accept people with lower GPAs (3.0 - 3.2, from what I seen of their numbers, between 1-5 in the last few years). Small percentage, but still possible, especially since MCAT is weighed very heavily.

 

Hmm going to another province for UG is possible... Maybe UBC or UofA (the former looks daunting to get into)?

 

Haha, as for shadowing my dad, he's a tough and rigid cookie. I certainly couldn't shadow him for more than a couple hours in his small office. If you're absolutely serious about this though, PM your resume and I'll show it to him.

[AndreaM]

From what I understand, the applicants with lower GPA's accepted at Mac are from the aboriginal applicant stream. Plus Mac now requires the VR portion of the MCAT and unless you get a really high VR score, then that combined with your GPA would put you out of the running.

[asIam]

I haven't looked into Mac in awhile but I thought they only took your Verbal score or something. Don't quote me on that...

 

But anyways, even with a 45T mcat I think at least in Canada it'll be hard to get into anywhere with your current cGPA. And banking on just McMaster's 1%-5% seems like very bad odds to me.

 

I'd totally love to go to UBC but I'm broke lol! But that might just be because I'm asian. =p

 

UBC bases their acceptance into their normal UG programs based on your last 60 credit hours (10 courses) I think. And a secret about universities is that you can apply to one of their less competitive programs and then start taking courses towards the program you wish to switch to. Providing you get decent marks in those related courses they'll usually allow you to switch programs.

 

UBC's med school admissions also has a special policy that allows you to drop marks that were 10 years or older which might work for you by the time you finish your 2nd degree.

 

Hah, if you're serious about your dad.. well.. i'll take a raincheck on that if you don't mind lol.. Right now my life's a bit of a mess as I'm trying to decide what to do too. Thanks though!

[rmorelan]

And a secret about universities is that you can apply to one of their less competitive programs and then start taking courses towards the program you wish to switch to. Providing you get decent marks in those related courses they'll usually allow you to switch programs.

 

True! My brother slacked big time at H.S. and wound up applying into agricultural business at U of Guelph as it only needed a 68 or something to get into at the time. Immediately took the computer science "electives" he needed and by the end of year one was in pure computer science after saying he had a "change of heart". Doing his phD now in Comp Science so I guess it worked out in the end

[ironicbond]

A question about a place like UBC.

 

If you work on an undergrad at that university (or any university that has a med school) but are an out of province resident (I'm from Ontario) will the out of province restrictions still be applied? Or will graduating from the respective university waive that restriction?

[astrogirl]

It depends on the university. Some will consider you a resident if you live there for x amount of time (I think the Alberta ones do). Some say it doesn't count if you live there while you're a student (I'm pretty sure Dal does that). Not sure about UBC. But each school seems to have different rules about that.

[Dr.Henderson]

A question about a place like UBC.

 

If you work on an undergrad at that university (or any university that has a med school) but are an out of province resident (I'm from Ontario) will the out of province restrictions still be applied? Or will graduating from the respective university waive that restriction?

 

BC Residency Requirements

 

 

Preference is given to residents of British Columbia; however, a small number of out-of-province applicants are accepted each year.

 

A BC resident, for the MD Undergraduate Admissions purposes, is someone who has met one of the following criteria:

 

1. Has lived in BC for 24 continuous full months immediately prior to the application deadline; or

2. Has attended secondary school (grades 8 to 12 inclusive) in British Columbia, or attended for a minimum of three (3) years and had a permanent home in BC (secondary school transcripts must be submitted); or

3. Within the last five years has attended a university in BC for at least two years; or

4. Was born in British Columbia and attended a minimum of five years of school in BC. The applicant must also have resided in BC for at least one continuous year in the last ten, unless the applicant has been living and working overseas on a work visa or with the Armed Forces, and has been a resident in BC prior to entering the Armed Forces; or

5. Has attended residential secondary school (grades 8 to 12 inclusive) in BC, even if his/her permanent home is in another province (secondary school transcripts must be submitted); or

6. Has been a resident in BC for five years at any time for any reason and has resided in BC continuously for at least one year in the last ten; or

7. Is a resident-under any of the above terms-of the Yukon, NW Territories, or Nunavut.

 

NOTE: An applicant is NOT considered a resident of BC, for the MD Undergraduate Admissions purposes, if he or she is over 19 years of age and has never lived in BC, even if his or her parents have moved to BC. Unfortunately, having a BC Care Card and/or filing your income tax in BC does not automatically qualify you to meet our requirement at this time.

[passerby1ce]

Hey ironicbond, just wondering what specific design field are you thinking of leaving?

 

graphic design? architecture? landscape architecture? interior design?

 

currently debating pursuing a design field vs. medicine myself. thanks.

[ironicbond]

BC Residency Requirements

 

 

Preference is given to residents of British Columbia; however, a small number of out-of-province applicants are accepted each year.

 

A BC resident, for the MD Undergraduate Admissions purposes, is someone who has met one of the following criteria:

 

1. Has lived in BC for 24 continuous full months immediately prior to the application deadline; or

2. Has attended secondary school (grades 8 to 12 inclusive) in British Columbia, or attended for a minimum of three (3) years and had a permanent home in BC (secondary school transcripts must be submitted); or

3. Within the last five years has attended a university in BC for at least two years; or

4. Was born in British Columbia and attended a minimum of five years of school in BC. The applicant must also have resided in BC for at least one continuous year in the last ten, unless the applicant has been living and working overseas on a work visa or with the Armed Forces, and has been a resident in BC prior to entering the Armed Forces; or

5. Has attended residential secondary school (grades 8 to 12 inclusive) in BC, even if his/her permanent home is in another province (secondary school transcripts must be submitted); or

6. Has been a resident in BC for five years at any time for any reason and has resided in BC continuously for at least one year in the last ten; or

7. Is a resident-under any of the above terms-of the Yukon, NW Territories, or Nunavut.

 

NOTE: An applicant is NOT considered a resident of BC, for the MD Undergraduate Admissions purposes, if he or she is over 19 years of age and has never lived in BC, even if his or her parents have moved to BC. Unfortunately, having a BC Care Card and/or filing your income tax in BC does not automatically qualify you to meet our requirement at this time.

 

Whoa, thank you so much Dr. Henderson. That really helps a lot.

[ironicbond]

Hey ironicbond, just wondering what specific design field are you thinking of leaving?

 

graphic design? architecture? landscape architecture? interior design?

 

currently debating pursuing a design field vs. medicine myself. thanks.

 

Graphic Design.

[dreamer]

I think option number 2 is a major "ding ding ding ding ding ding". That option is screaming choose me, for a variety of reasons...

 

First of all, you don't know if you're really into this whole medical school thing, or if being a doctor is really for you. So you really want to explore the real reasons why you want that job so badly. That time going to school, having a lot of opportunities to get involved, volunteering will put your mind back into focus after work. And let's face it, you just told us you don't have anything sweet going on in terms of extracurriculars. It will take time to build that up anyways.

 

Secondly, I'm not sure how admissions to foreign schools like Australia and Ireland go, but I would think you would need a slightly higher cGPA than that.

 

Let's look at your best case, but realistic scenarios: You're saying you need three years. You might be able to get away with pulling it off in two, depending on how your transfer credits go. So it's not really bad at all. You might have never taken biology or chemistry since high school, like I did, and you would need quite a bit of time to absorb all that material and get your mind on the right track. The following summer, you write your MCATs. Hopefully, you will ace them, and then you get to apply to Western. That's only after one year...

 

In the meantime, you're already going to be finishing your second and final year. After completion of two years, you would be in a much better position for many schools, including Western(If you didn't get in yet) Queens, Dal, McGill (I believe looks at your last degree, but McGill is McGill...), U of S, Calgary and even Manitoba if you aced your MCATs since they drop A LOT of credits. Depending on what your last year of GPA was, you might even be good to apply for Ottawa.

 

After you graduate, you could just go back to doing what you were doing, and also working on your application to Australia (I think their deadlines are in January, in your second year), which you were considering about going anyways. IMO Australia + Ireland represents the best option for foreign degrees, but Ireland is just too hard on the wallet... I think I recall that Australia looks at your last degree + MCAT scores. So you would be in a better position for foreign schools as well.

 

The trick now, I think is planning out those two years. It's January right now, and I'm thinking if you want to do a Biology degree, you might have to do first year bio if you don't have it. If you can apply for summer school, get one or two pre-reqs out of the way, then you can start in September with 2nd year Biology courses (evolution + ecology ughhh + genetics stuff ). That might put you in line to do third and 4th year biology in the following year, graduating in two years. I'm not recommending biology, but it's just an example.

 

For the school, I personally wouldn't like to be in Toronto. I find it pretty hard to focus in the big city. If you have the cash and can live on your own, it might be better going to a smaller Uni in a smaller program where you can make excellent contact with profs and research opportunities. In a small town, you're either partying or studying. So what ends up happening for second degree students is usually studying lol, and then you'll be well on your way to your goals.

[dreamer]

Oh and I almost forgot: move to Alberta while you do this . I'm half serious about this...

[ironicbond]

Haha why Alberta?

 

I greatly appreciate the advice. I'm thinking of going into the Bachelor of Science programs for Psychology, as they provide foundation science courses which are useful for med school as well as the MCAT... while I can studying something I truly enjoy (psychology).

 

I suppose Biology is really the most traditional course... I'm just not sure about jumping into full time bio after not taking school for so long. I suppose one could say the same with thing with psych, but I've taken an interest in it since leaving university and at least did extremely well in a couple courses in Uni.

 

I'm not too worried about living in a big city like Vancouver or Toronto. I'm currently living in New York City and have been able to focus my attention on my craft for two years. Plus, as long as I have the internet, it doesn't matter what city I live in. If I want to procrastinate, I'll find a way to...

 

Ideally, I'd like to study in UBC and apply to the UBC's med school (as well as schools in Ontario).

[AndreaM]

Alberta, because they have really lax IP rules and two schools to apply to.

 

BC has the second worst chances of getting of all the provinces, with the worst being Ontario, but if you are banking on UBC's 10 year rule then doing your second degree in BC and then moving to AB the year you apply would make you IP for both provinces.

[Slashsev01]

try the us

[ironicbond]

Alright, I'm applying to UBC, UofA, UofC, and a couple Ontario universities for an undergrad degree.

 

I'm thinking I probably have the best chance to get accepted in the Alberta schools and York (the latter for sure I think).

 

Another question, if I studied in Alberta but applied to Ontario provinces, would I be considered OOP by Ontario schools, or would they accept me as an Ontarian since my house (permanent residence?) is in Ontario?

 

Thanks for the all the advice btw. Really helped focus me on viable goals.

[Dr.Henderson]

AFAIK most Ontario schools don't consider provincial residency. Someone from Ontario will be better able to answer than me though.