"Photos of drinking, grinning aid mission doctors cause uproar" - CNN

[scrub]

"Outrage" article here.

 

A Physician replies here (*run through Google Translate)

[Paulkid]

how is this embarassing?

What doctors aren`t allowed to drink? they are allowed to get wasted like everybody else, the only true shame here, they got drunk enough to take pics that would get distributed.

 

"An anesthesiologist who traveled with the group said she was saddened by the photographs, but said her colleagues "gave 200 percent" with limited resources. "Their work was excellent," Dr. Enid Garcia told Puerto Rico's Primera Hora newspaper."

 

so what`s the big deal? on hours work time, off hours get wasted.

 

If it dosen`t interfere with your practice, why care?

[WaveSense]

Because patients were in the pictures.

[Paulkid]

Because patients were in the pictures.

 

They`re crying more about the reputation of their doctors than the patients.

Its like a mother slapping her child in the mall when the kid`s crying.

[scrub]

Though the public fury/support seems to be focused on the partying, I don't see a problem with it. For all we know they did spend the past few weeks working a sort of hell that most of us will never witness. If anything warrants a case of beer I'd say its that.

 

These doctors are idiots, however, because they posted pictures of themselves with booze, guns and patients, on the internet. +1 stupid points for wearing scrubs in some of the pics. +9000 stupid points for stringing these stupid decisions together and posting them online while positioned square in the focal point of the entire world's media.

 

When everyone's arguing about how to best donate their money and whether we should even be sending help because we need it at home etc, these guys - representatives of the international aid effort, whether they want to be or not - are flaunting their partying, in hospital gear, for the whole world to see.

[neurogirl]

I completely agree with Scrub. These doctors undoubtedly did a great job over the last few weeks dealing with the situation in Haiti, but they really showed an unprofessional side in the Facebook pictures.

 

It's of course very human to celebrate after a lot of hard work, but they should have been more discreet about it.

 

What astounds me is the lack of common sense that a lot of people (even professionals) have with regards to Facebook and other networking sites.

Sometimes I wonder whether we need a "Smart guide to Facebook/MySpace/Twitter.. " course for *recent grads looking for a job*, *MDs*, *politicians*, etc...

[rmorelan]

The photos with patients without consent is probably the bigger ethics issue (the drinking and photos is just plan induced stupity probably from the stress). They probably feel like they are in another world over there - hard to imagine the things they must be seeing.

[skvangs]

The photos with patients without consent is probably the bigger ethics issue (the drinking and photos is just plan induced stupity probably from the stress). They probably feel like they are in another world over there - hard to imagine the things they must be seeing.

 

We have no proof, (at least from what I read in the articles, though I may have missed something) that patient's pictures were included. Even then, if the patients had even mediocre eyesight, they could see a camera in front of their face and would be able to respond. The drinking, they have the right to drink and put it up on facebook. I wonder how many of the members here taking a high and mighty stance, have pictures of themselves drinking on facebook. Affter a trivial exam we go to parties and do all sort of crazy things. Oh big deal... they drank in scrubs, so what?? Pull yourselves together and stop complaining. Go become doctors and then volunteer your time for a medical emergency and then comment. I too don't have the right to comment, but I have had enough with some of these goody two shoes.

[itimebomb2]

"Some of them already lost their jobs," he said. "They're going to lose probably their careers. It's a mess. Only because of some stupidity."

 

 

While some disciplinary action is clearly needed, it is a serious shame to hear about doctors losing their careers for doing something stupid while on a volunteer mission. This is just retarded.

[rmorelan]

We have no proof, (at least from what I read in the articles, though I may have missed something) that patient's pictures were included. Even then, if the patients had even mediocre eyesight, they could see a camera in front of their face and would be able to respond. The drinking, they have the right to drink and put it up on facebook. I wonder how many of the members here taking a high and mighty stance, have pictures of themselves drinking on facebook. Affter a trivial exam we go to parties and do all sort of crazy things. Oh big deal... they drank in scrubs, so what?? Pull yourselves together and stop complaining. Go become doctors and then volunteer your time for a medical emergency and then comment. I too don't have the right to comment, but I have had enough with some of these goody two shoes.

 

from the article:

 

Others show medical personnel in what appears to be a clinic, grinning as they attend to patients. Another shows a quake victim on a hospital bed, naked from the waist down except for a thin strip of cloth covering the genitals.

 

The article could be cherry picking the photos they are presenting I suppose though.

 

I don't care about the drinking - I mean it is still stupid sillyness, but that isn't damning. I really do doubt the patients though are in a position to complain about photos taking (we are miles away from any possiblity of informed or realitically proper concent) - there is just too much of a power imbalance. Now not the degree of wrongness that "heads should roll" but they can't walk around in a hospital in their home country and take photos and say you had consent becuase the patients could see you had a camera I guess their home oversight organizations are applying the same standard even though they left for the mission.

[Tango Charlie]

Yes, firing them is clearly the right answer. Let's punish them and the people they were caring for because of some pictures. Great job.

[Leon]

Because patients were in the pictures.

 

+++

 

 

 

 

Btw, the article mentions that you can't drink while wearing scrubs? Is that actually true? I wouldn't think so.

[ratatat]

We have no proof, (at least from what I read in the articles, though I may have missed something) that patient's pictures were included.[b[ Even then, if the patients had even mediocre eyesight, they could see a camera in front of their face and would be able to respond.[/b] The drinking, they have the right to drink and put it up on facebook. I wonder how many of the members here taking a high and mighty stance, have pictures of themselves drinking on facebook. Affter a trivial exam we go to parties and do all sort of crazy things. Oh big deal... they drank in scrubs, so what?? Pull yourselves together and stop complaining. Go become doctors and then volunteer your time for a medical emergency and then comment. I too don't have the right to comment, but I have had enough with some of these goody two shoes.

 

If you've survived a devastating earthquake and are getting treated for injuries, are you really gonna have the energy/desire to say "NO CAMERAS! NO CAMERAS!" at the sight of a camera? How do you even know the picture is going on facebook/what it's for? For all you know, taking the picture could just be the protocol of the foreign doctors helping out in your country. The fact is, the physicians should've known better.

 

Despite what I've said, I don't think the physicians should lose their careers over this.

[CardinalX]

We have no proof, (at least from what I read in the articles, though I may have missed something) that patient's pictures were included. Even then, if the patients had even mediocre eyesight, they could see a camera in front of their face and would be able to respond. The drinking, they have the right to drink and put it up on facebook. I wonder how many of the members here taking a high and mighty stance, have pictures of themselves drinking on facebook. Affter a trivial exam we go to parties and do all sort of crazy things. Oh big deal... they drank in scrubs, so what?? Pull yourselves together and stop complaining. Go become doctors and then volunteer your time for a medical emergency and then comment. I too don't have the right to comment, but I have had enough with some of these goody two shoes.

 

These are people from the poorest country in the Americas, yet you assume them to be familiar with the concept of consent...Funny.

 

Now putting that aside, I still find what they did incredibly stupid. They went there to do humanitarian work and sure, it may be good to relax a little and destress but if they really needed alcohol for that, then they deserve what's happening to them right now. And to those who say they have a right to drink...Sure...Drink your ass off. No problem there, just as long as you don't end up doing stupid things like these guys. But hey, who cares!...Its not as if drinking affects your sense of judgment?! Right?

 

Cheers!

[skvangs]

These are people from the poorest country in the Americas, yet you assume them to be familiar with the concept of consent...Funny.

 

Now putting that aside, I still find what they did incredibly stupid. They went there to do humanitarian work and sure, it may be good to relax a little and destress but if they really needed alcohol for that, then they deserve what's happening to them right now. And to those who say they have a right to drink...Sure...Drink your ass off. No problem there, just as long as you don't end up doing stupid things like these guys. But hey, who cares!...Its not as if drinking affects your sense of judgment?! Right?

 

Cheers!

 

 

Hmm, I think the concept of disagreement, and the concept of negation are universal. IF they felt like they don't want to have photographs taken, I am sure they could have expressed themselves in that way. I am truly, deeply concerned if you think that poor people from poor areas have no grasp on the concept of consent. You don't have to know the intricacies of the specific terminology of consent to understand that if someone is doing something to you that you do not want, you can say NO, stop it.

 

What was so stupid that these guys did? They got drunk and got pictures taken. wow, I can almost guarantee that many many of us here, on our facebook pages have pictures of us drinking. In re: to impairment in the sense of judgment, there is no proof that they were drinking while treating patients. Again, I may have missed something, I did not see any pictures showing that. IF they drank after a hard days' work I have no problem.

 

These guys went there on there own coin, losing potential income for the days they were absent, to do good things. If they drank a little so be it. as long as it did not directly and adversely affect their patient population, I do not see how it is any of our business what they did or do in their private time.

[skvangs]

I just don't see any of the pictures with patients in them. If I was the reporter I would definitely try to include some of these "damning" images. Even if I had to censor the faces of the patients.

[rmorelan]

I just don't see any of the pictures with patients in them. If I was the reporter I would definitely try to include some of these "damning" images. Even if I had to censor the faces of the patients.

 

Wouldn't that just be further violation of privacy? The reporter isn't going to commit the infraction that he/she is claiming the doctors did - it just wouldn't look good among other things. The text is more descriptive of the full scope.

[skvangs]

Wouldn't that just be further violation of privacy? The reporter isn't going to commit the infraction that he/she is claiming the doctors did - it just wouldn't look good among other things. The text is more descriptive of the full scope.

 

Hence, as I said in my post, the necessity to censor the photos.

[rmorelan]

Hence, as I said in my post, the necessity to censor the photos.

 

I don't think you are even allowed to present a "blanked out" photo without consent either. We have to go through all kinds of loops just to public present pictures of people's arms last year and that is way less informative.

[scrub]

The problem lies in what many think ought to be ok and what really is ok, as determined by the media and the public, who have a significantly louder voice in situations such as this.

 

During the first week post-earthquake we saw organizations being criticized for removing doctors due to personal safety concerns. If the media and the public were jumping on these guys, how do you think they'd take to drunken doctors wearing scrubs waving guns around naked kids?

 

I don't think its being "high and mighty" or "goody two shoes'd" to say they really should've taken the extra steps to foresee and avoid this. Whether they lose their licenses may be a matter of politics in their own countries, but they should've seen this sort of easily avoidable situation as a possibility.

[Bede]

Part of the reason for the outrage is that the public has a certain perception of doctors, and doctors performing their duties to any standard less than the perceptions is seen as a deriliction of duty. The same goes with pilots (what I do for a living now). When I tell people that pilots read papers, and play on the computer while they're flying, they're shocked. But the reality is, the autopilot does most of the work for you in cruise, and other than the very demanding times during take-offs & landings, their really isn't much to do. I'm sure medicine is no different.

[The Law]

Yes, firing them is clearly the right answer. Let's punish them and the people they were caring for because of some pictures. Great job.

 

I know. Give me a break. I suppose the doctors should just be miserable the entire time they're working. What a joke.

[ShootingStar]

I'm sure the CNN news broadcasters are doing SOO much more for Haiti. (sarcasm:p )

[Rach]

I'm sure the CNN news broadcasters are doing SOO much more for Haiti. (sarcasm:p )

 

I haven't read all the posts but I was also annoyed at CNN and whoever else reported this story with such outrage. I'd like those news stations to show us the confidentiality agreements signed by all wounded Haitians being constantly filmed.

[Leon]

Isn't there a difference between filming people in the street (injured or not) and filming in a hospital or temporary health care location? (I'm genuinely asking here as I'm unsure of the laws. I come from a place where there are no privacy laws whatsoever so breaches of privacy annoy the hell out of me).