I Wish I Knew This as a Med Student

[meds2014]

This is a variation of "I Wish I Knew This as a Pre-med". Hopefully, this thread will help med school froshies this year

 

I'll start us off: Since medical school is pass/fail, is there a point to acing every exam? Are we "home-free"? Should we just aim for pass? Is there any reason to be uber competitive like in undergrad?

[rmorelan]

This is a variation of "I Wish I Knew This as a Pre-med". Hopefully, this thread will help med school froshies this year

 

I'll start us off: Since medical school is pass/fail, is there a point to acing every exam? Are we "home-free"? Should we just aim for pass? Is there any reason to be uber competitive like in undergrad?

 

Just my take - You should absolutely go way beyond aiming for a pass but you are right you don't have to be super concerned with getting 100% in absolutely everything. The main problem with just skimming along in practical terms (other than the fact that in the end it may impact patient care ) is that you will have to recall it under pressure often in clerkship and you won't have time to learn it then. I am already on observerships getting quizzed on things (so much for just observing). Notice these are personal reasons for doing well as in I am not competiting with anyone other than myself. It doesn't matter how well the guy beside you is doing - it just doesn't impact me in anyway in the first two years ( I will let a clerk speak about those years but still it is not the same as undergrad). Overall actually failing out is extremely difficult to do

[meds2014]

Maybe it's just my paranoia, but I have a suspicion that schools still keep track of your marks even though it's pass/fail... How would residency directors differentiate between med school graduates then? What makes you a competitive residency applicant?

[rmorelan]

Maybe it's just my paranoia, but I have a suspicion that schools still keep track of your marks even though it's pass/fail... How would residency directors differentiate between med school graduates then? What makes you a competitive residency applicant?

 

heheheh people are always superstitious about that and I can see why but simply put schools won't release them. The registars office at Western for instance doesn't even know what they are, only the med school does. There is no way for an external agency to actually get those grades.

 

For resisdency it most comes done to how well you perform in Clerkship - where your transcript has actual comments on it from the team you are with. You better believe they pay attention to those as that is a doctor saying how you behave in real situations. Also you will be doing electives (when depends on the school) where you will be working at various hospitals and evaluted then by people who directly can impact your chances of admission to that program and give you perhaps those all important LOR. These are way more useful indicators if you think about it than how well you did in a course in preclerkship and test far more than your book knowledge. There is also the interview process, your personal statement and your ECs from med school, and the ability to look at what electives you actually chose to do. They have a lot to play with

 

Remember in residency admissions they are looking for someone they can work with professionally for 2-7 years - work with under stress, work with when tired and work with consistently in a team environment. Your first semester grades in something just don't tell them anything about that. Frankly muliple choice tests don't really measure the important stuff in the really real world

[Julie]

is there a point to acing every exam? Are we "home-free"? Should we just aim for pass? Is there any reason to be uber competitive like in undergrad?

 

In general the more you know, the better. However, there's not much point in really trying to get a super high mark just for the sake of the high mark. Sometimes there's an award for the highest mark of the class for a certain block, or things like that, but really that's quite hard to get & not realistic for most people - and not necessary for anything. I think you should aim to pass (ok, maybe a bit higher, to be on the safe side), and then aim to learn as much as possible (which should by extension bring your mark higher, but that's not the goal in itself).

 

So I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's no point in focusing on the mark itself (ie arguing to get a few more points on an exam when you feel it was marked wrong), but the more you know the easier clerkship, residency and your job later on will be/ the better you will be at it. How good you are in clerkship does have an impact on your chances of getting into a residency, so your knowledge base will be important there. Overall though, do your best while maintaining a balanced lifestyle & you should be fine... I think your mental health is much more important than your marks.

 

What makes you a competitive residency applicant?

I think this somewhat depends on the residency program. From what I've been told, main things are showing interest in the field and getting along really well with others (patients, families, nurses, residents, staff, etc.). Then there are things like your clerkship evals, that can be important. You do have to submit a list of activities you did during med & awards you received, research publications, etc., when you apply to CARMS - sort of similar to OMSAS applications, except I think not as detailed/doesn't go as far back. But the main question I've been told committee members ask themselves is "How much do I want to work with this person for the next X years?" The more competitive the program, the more competitive your application needs to be, of course, and you can get into a residency program somewhere without having a super competitive application - unlike med school.

[Lactic Folly]

No need to be competitive (focusing on getting a better mark than others). However, you should definitely try to build a strong foundation of knowledge. A lot of the preclerkship material is very clinically oriented and even if you forget things after the exam, you will need familiarity with it later during your clinical work.

 

As the others said, your letters of reference and clerkship evaluations are more important than your preclerkship grades in CaRMS. However, a solid fund of knowledge will invariably make a good impression and lead to comments like "excellent knowledge base, above expected for level of training" and "keen, hard-working, reads around cases." From the patient's perspective, everyone would like their doctor to have worked to achieve more than just the bare minimum to pass in medical school

[orange123]

What kind of EC's can one expect to do in med? Does it have to be something med related? Can one continue w/ say volunteering at a retirement home, or continue playing the piano?

 

Just wondering is all! I'm probably naive, b/c I thought once one gets into med, they'd better pull up their socks and work hard to get into residency. I didn't think ECs mattered for residency, but a few posts above me, ECs come up again.

 

Danke

[rmorelan]

What kind of EC's can one expect to do in med? Does it have to be something med related? Can one continue w/ say volunteering at a retirement home, or continue playing the piano?

 

Just wondering is all! I'm probably naive, b/c I thought once one gets into med, they'd better pull up their socks and work hard to get into residency. I didn't think ECs mattered for residency, but a few posts above me, ECs come up again.

 

Danke

 

even more than UG your ECs should be taylored to your interests. There is class councils, club exec positions in a variety of things, research in particular specializations, community outreach opportunities, course development.....

 

I always say ECs are not things to be checked off a form but an extension of your interests and long term goals. When you see that going on at med school you see the continuation of them from UG to med to to residency

[orange123]

even more than UG your ECs should be taylored to your interests. There is class councils, club exec positions in a variety of things, research in particular specializations, community outreach opportunities, course development.....

 

I always say ECs are not things to be checked off a form but an extension of your interests and long term goals. When you see that going on at med school you see the continuation of them from UG to med to to residency

 

Thanks Rmorelan. Appreciate the info.

[Lactic Folly]

What kind of EC's can one expect to do in med? Does it have to be something med related? Can one continue w/ say volunteering at a retirement home, or continue playing the piano?

 

Just wondering is all! I'm probably naive, b/c I thought once one gets into med, they'd better pull up their socks and work hard to get into residency. I didn't think ECs mattered for residency, but a few posts above me, ECs come up again.

 

Danke

 

Different programs place different amounts of emphasis on extracurriculars. Overall, I don't think they are as important for residency as for medical school, as long as you have a few outside interests/activities you can talk about to demonstrate well-roundedness. It's understood that clerkship doesn't leave much free time, and most people prefer to spend what free time they do have with family and friends.

BTW just noticed your signature - congratulations

[orange123]

Different programs place different amounts of emphasis on extracurriculars. Overall, I don't think they are as important for residency as for medical school, as long as you have a few outside interests/activities you can talk about to demonstrate well-roundedness. It's understood that clerkship doesn't leave much free time, and most people prefer to spend what free time they do have with family and friends.

BTW just noticed your signature - congratulations

 

Thanks Lactic Folly! You had a hand in it, by selling me Doing Right hehe.

[TheEggman]

http://www.premed101.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39960

 

This thread was pretty good for an idea of what residency committees are looking for. Sounds like the biggest thing is strong LORs from people directly connected with the program you are interested in.

[apache]

clerkship evals, electives in that residency, better yet, electives where you want to go... for some specialties research... to quote the residency director of the program id really like "a demonstrated interest in the specialty, as emphasized by all the latter", keep in mind, it's also specialty/program dependent, every specialty program is autonomous in the sense that theyre looking for people who fit well in their program, and that varies from program to program, even within the same specialty

 

Maybe it's just my paranoia, but I have a suspicion that schools still keep track of your marks even though it's pass/fail... How would residency directors differentiate between med school graduates then? What makes you a competitive residency applicant?

[tooty]

i wish i knew that summer research positions fill super fast. they were made available early in the school year (sept oct) and are filled in a matter of weeks. a few projects trickle in throughout the year and summer, but you need to jump on every opportunity to make sure you have something lined up for the summer. that is, if you want to cover yourself for competitive residencies.

[sobes74]

i wish i knew that summer research positions fill super fast. they were made available early in the school year (sept oct) and are filled in a matter of weeks. a few projects trickle in throughout the year and summer, but you need to jump on every opportunity to make sure you have something lined up for the summer. that is, if you want to cover yourself for competitive residencies.

 

Ooo this is a good point- does anyone know if this is true at Schulich as well?

 

Also, forgive my ignorance, but how does the pass/fail system work? What is a considered a "pass"? I would hope its more than 50% .... :S that just doesn't seem right, hehe.

[Nobodycirclesthewagons]

A pass is 60% at Schulich. I don't know how fast research positions fill up, however.

[rmorelan]

Ooo this is a good point- does anyone know if this is true at Schulich as well?

 

Also, forgive my ignorance, but how does the pass/fail system work? What is a considered a "pass"? I would hope its more than 50% .... :S that just doesn't seem right, hehe.

 

Not as true at Schulich - research positions are announced and applied for in most cases in Jan/Feb via the STOP and STRP programs. All of this will be fully explained on campus well in advance

[rmorelan]

Ooo this is a good point- does anyone know if this is true at Schulich as well?

 

Also, forgive my ignorance, but how does the pass/fail system work? What is a considered a "pass"? I would hope its more than 50% .... :S that just doesn't seem right, hehe.

 

Not as true at Schulich - research positions are announced and applied for in most cases in Jan/Feb via the STOP and STRP programs. All of this will be fully explained on campus well in advance

[cardiomegaly]

Take at least a month off in the summer to play. Research will definitely advance you in so many ways but it is tiring.

[tooty]

Take at least a month off in the summer to play. Research will definitely advance you in so many ways but it is tiring.

 

ya. go with 2-3 month projects if you can in 1st year

[Corsci]

ya. go with 2-3 month projects if you can in 1st year

 

Do they post opportunities in other cities as well? ie Calgary.

[Lactic Folly]

If there's someone you really want to work with, it wouldn't hurt to approach them early on. If they take you, that's a position they might end up not having to post

[shannn]

What would be the specialties where you'd really need to do research to have any shot of getting in?

 

I know definitely:

-ENT

-Optho

-Ortho Surgery

-Dermatology

-Plastic Surgery

 

Are there any others?

 

----

 

And does research done pre-med school do anything for your CaRMS app?

I have ortho/neurosurg research experience, but I have no intention of going into those fields

 

---

 

Last question, lol, is it wise to bank on doing a fellowship after residency? Which fellowships are very popular/competitive?

 

For instance, I've been told that the FM-EM fellowship is ultra competitive and gets many many many applicants. But would something like peds-oncology be competitive?

[tooty]

Do they post opportunities in other cities as well? ie Calgary.

 

don't remember seeing any postings from calgary. you'll have to search actively for projects in other cities.

[tooty]

What would be the specialties where you'd really need to do research to have any shot of getting in?

 

I know definitely:

-ENT

-Optho

-Ortho Surgery

-Dermatology

-Plastic Surgery

 

Are there any others?

 

----

 

And does research done pre-med school do anything for your CaRMS app?

I have ortho/neurosurg research experience, but I have no intention of going into those fields

 

---

 

Last question, lol, is it wise to bank on doing a fellowship after residency? Which fellowships are very popular/competitive?

 

For instance, I've been told that the FM-EM fellowship is ultra competitive and gets many many many applicants. But would something like peds-oncology be competitive?

 

*just my 2 cents after 1 year of medicine*

 

1. you don't 'need' to do research at all. the only reason you should is you'll be competing with others who have. you'll stand out slightly negatively if you don't have research applying into a competitive specialty. by the same token, you'll stand out slightly positively in specialties that are not as competitive if you have research. it's best to decide first what you might like and do a project in that area. if you don't know, then take a stab, i suppose.

 

2. some program directors value premed research, some don't. it's best to do something in the summers in case they don't. i feel that it's ideal to have research experience in the specialty you're applying to. if you're interviewing for plastics, for example, the pd would be much more knowledgeable and interested in plastics projects you've done, which would make for a more enjoyable, fruitful discussion. hopefully, you're also getting a strong reference letter and networking with other plastics names, which all help you. for plastics.

 

3. start thinking about what you want to do first before you bank on anything. it's useless now to create an exhaustive list of all specialties and their competitiveness. narrow down what you might like, find out more about aspects of each option that are attractive or unattractive to you, narrow down some more, etc.