Tango Charlie Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 I see there's some UAE talk here. Here's an excellent article entitled "The Dark Side of Dubai": http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/the-dark-side-of-dubai-1664368.html ....but you hurt the religious sentiments of ordinary muslims, and when peaceful demos dont work, you cant blame them for getting violent. Yes, you absolutely can. If you think any sort of drawing ever justifies violence you are seriously out of touch with reality. Freedom of speech means, most importantly, the ability for people who want to say and, in this case, draw things that you don't want to hear or see to do just that. It's their right to express their views, as offensive to you as they may or may not be, because everyone has a voice and an opinion and it's their right to be able to use their voice to express that opinion, especially if it's different than yours. It's a fundamental principle of any free and democratic society. Once you start saying what people can and cannot say, and using violence to enforce your will, you tread into the territory of dictatorships and fascism. The idea that an unfunny cartoon printed in an obscure Danish newspaper could ever be grounds for murder and vandalism is absolute insanity. As for your earlier question about which embassies were vandalized, the Danish embassies in Syria, Lebanon and Iran were set ablaze. Various European buildings in Gaza City were vandalized as well. The death toll because of some cartoons being printed topped 100. Honestly there is no defense here. I think the guy who allowed them to be in the paper should have been fired by the paper, and I think people should have looked and thought "what a jackass". Nobody should have died. No embassies or other property should have been vandalized. Trying to justify the fallout from that stupid cartoon around the world and say "you can't blame them" is deplorable, and I seriously hope you misspoke or were being facetious or something. Doesn't mean that people are justified in ragging on Islam in particular, but as a Muslim you need to be able to look at the other Muslims who literally killed because of this cartoon and say "those people are ****ing idiots and I do not associate myself with them." If you are not willing to be sane and say that the people who kill and destroy in the name of their religion do not represent you, you justify the fears and suspicions of the very people who perpetrate the sort of Islamophobia that makes being Muslim in the West these days more unpleasant than it has been in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosuperman Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 ....but you hurt the religious sentiments of ordinary muslims, and when peaceful demos dont work, you cant blame them for getting violent. Comments like this do a massive disservice to moderate Muslims who claim the religion ultimately promotes peace. You can say what you like about my beliefs but I'd never think "well I'll object peacefully at first but if nobody does exactly what I demand then you can't blame me for getting violent" and THEN claim to hold some semblance of moral authority. The Christians who shot and killed Dr. Tiller months ago in the US had protested peacefully prior to killing him as he left church. Of course he did perform those abortions so you can't blame them. The Jews in Israel have been found committing numerous atrocities to their neighbours... but these victims are generally Muslim and just being Muslim is offensive to them so really you can't blame them either. Right? These people committed murder and essentially blamed the victims for pissing them off. You not only can blame them, you should blame them, without childish excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Oh cmon, stop pointing out the technicalities in my statements and instead try to see the big picture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population Look at that map! Most muslim countries with the fewest exceptions will usually try to get as close to 100% muslim as they can over time. Don't act like you don't know about the systematic and persistent persecution of christians, jews, hindus, even zoroastrians in muslim countries. Thank you Tango Charlie for the dark side of dubai. I've read an article similar to that and found out about how dubai is almost evil in so many ways. I will also add that USA is also evil in so many ways. It's not like we're all saints here. But muslim countries outdo christian countries in this by a long shot. And some of the muslim apologists in this thread are laughable. You almost make muslims look worse with some of the stuff you say. For the peeps who're saying it's PREPOSTEROUS that we're condemning people who haven't even been PROVEN GUILTY! Well, they found 40 electronic switchboards for bomb detonation, they found evidence on paper, they found legitimate links to terrorist organizations that these people have... They're NOT proven guilty, but I have a reason to suspect they probably will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Charlie Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Oh cmon, stop pointing out the technicalities in my statements and instead try to see the big picture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population Look at that map! Most muslim countries with the fewest exceptions will usually try to get as close to 100% muslim as they can over time. Who cares? There are lot's of places in the world where, if you're not a certain way, you're in trouble. Try being gay in Uganda. Try being non-Korean in North Korea. To pretend as if oppression and discrimination is something that Muslims have a monopoly over is pretty silly. And just as you wouldn't attribute that oppression in North Korea to being Korean and hold Koreans in Canada responsible, so too should you not think to burden Muslims in Canada with responsibility for what backwards fools stuck in the Dark Ages are doing in Afghanistan, or Saudi Arabia, Persia, or elsewhere. Honestly, what are we even discussing anymore? The men accused of the crimes in this thread did so (if they are proven guilty) presumably because they are not right in the head. Their religion is incidental. There are literally thousands and thousands and thousands of Muslims who will live their days as perfectly law-abiding, tax-paying, affable Canadians who contribute to making this nation as cool as it is. Your own proclivity toward sensationalism and, yeah, bigotry, does more harm than their religious practices will ever do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 There are literally thousands and thousands and thousands of Muslims who will live their days as perfectly law-abiding, tax-paying, affable Canadians who contribute to making this nation as cool as it is. Absolutely correct. There are nut cases or extremists in every group in society, be it religious groups, proefessional groups, etc. There will always be a rotten apple or two in a large barrel of apples. It is an error in judgment and prejudice to judge any group by the worst individuals within such group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Honestly, what are we even discussing anymore? The men accused of the crimes in this thread did so (if they are proven guilty) presumably because they are not right in the head. Their religion is incidental. There are literally thousands and thousands and thousands of Muslims who will live their days as perfectly law-abiding, tax-paying, affable Canadians who contribute to making this nation as cool as it is. Your own proclivity toward sensationalism and, yeah, bigotry, does more harm than their religious practices will ever do. There are literally plenty of neo-nazis who will live their days as perfectly law-abiding, tax-paying Canadians and Americans. But their theology (or beliefs) is rooted in ultimately produced hatred and not co-existing. They will produce problems as they grow because they simply cannot co-exist and follow their theology perfectly at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Those who disobey the law need to pay the price. So long as they are law abiding or appear to be so, the authorities can keep a wtchful eye on them and that is it. This is the price of the rule of law in democratic societies, of which Canada is one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplin Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Apology on my misinformation on the embassy torchings. This is condemnable. I was serious on everything I said. Muhammad is a very sacred issue for muslims, and most love him very dearly. My original answer was directed at axel because he was potraying islam as a terrorist religion, without reason or proof. I asked for evidence, he tells bedtime stories. I guess what I was trying to say is that when you republish something of that kind purposely and knowingly hurting the sentiments of billions and nothing is done after that, then things DO get out of hand. Am i I justifying this violence by stating the obvious that people cant keep their emotional cool if they are provoked repeatedly on a sensitive issue like that. NO. Im not. But on that "freedom of speech" issue that you've explained above, their exists a divide on that between the East and the West. Even freedom of speech does not mean that you can write anything about anything at all. Even that in a free, democratic and civilized society has its boundaries. These are obviously different in secular countries where religious freedom is different. However, in religious states the response is different, and it is not considered justified to use freedom of speech to target the countries religion. What happened violent and non-violent, were a protest against these drawings because it hurt the people, and not an attack on free speech. To what Caylynn has said about Saudi Arabia. That ownership of husband and father thing is purely cultural. In Islam education other than religious is obligatory. Saudis were never the potrayal of Ideal Muslims, nor are their laws. Those are made by the Saudi Royal Family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Charlie Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 There are literally plenty of neo-nazis who will live their days as perfectly law-abiding, tax-paying Canadians and Americans. But their theology (or beliefs) is rooted in ultimately produced hatred and not co-existing. They will produce problems as they grow because they simply cannot co-exist and follow their theology perfectly at the same time. Freedom of speech. Cornerstone of a free and democratic society. Protects Neo-Nazis too. Etc. I should probably just quote my previous post, but I'll again say that thousands of Muslims co-exist just fine, don't break any laws, serve with distinction in our armed forces, work their jobs just like everyone else, pay their taxes, love their family, and contribute to our nation and our culture. Trying to paint these people as some sort of terrorist waiting to happen is just as ignorant as those Neo-Nazis and their beliefs regarding skin colour. I think you need to seriously reconsider your stance on all of this. I guess what I was trying to say is that when you republish something of that kind purposely and knowingly hurting the sentiments of billions and nothing is done after that, then things DO get out of hand. Am i I justifying this violence by stating the obvious that people cant keep their emotional cool if they are provoked repeatedly on a sensitive issue like that. NO. Im not. The reason the cartoon was republished in a very limited fashion is because there was quite a bit of pressure leveled on the Danish government to censor their own media (which is a huge no-no in the West) and prevent the cartoon from being circulated anymore. The violence and destruction which followed was seen as an attack on free speech itself, which it definitely was, and in support of people exercising their right to free speech, some other papers and magazines reprinted the cartoons. It wasn't done to offend anyone, it was to demonstrate to the world that freedom of speech can't be squashed through bloodshed and threats of violence. Unfortunately, most media in the West proved to be a bunch of limp-****ed pussies who refused to rally around the cause of free speech, so really very few places reprinted it. But on that "freedom of speech" issue that you've explained above, their exists a divide on that between the East and the West. Even freedom of speech does not mean that you can write anything about anything at all. Even that in a free, democratic and civilized society has its boundaries. These are obviously different in secular countries where religious freedom is different. However, in religious states the response is different, and it is not considered justified to use freedom of speech to target the countries religion. No, you can say or write pretty much anything. Libel and slander are illegal, but that's not really a freedom of speech issue, as words aren't simple utterances. It's for that reason that threats against people are also taken seriously, and telling someone you're going to kill them will land you in trouble. In Canada we also have a law that makes it illegal to call for violence against certain people. But otherwise, groups like the Westboro Baptist Church, Neo-Nazis, and Muslim-haters are free to say whatever they want to say. Even Fox News is free to pretend to be a "Fair and Balanced" news show and then, literally, outright and knowingly lie over and over and over again. Freedom of speech! People can say what they want to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Law Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Oh cmon, stop pointing out the technicalities in my statements and instead try to see the big picture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Muslim_population Look at that map! Most muslim countries with the fewest exceptions will usually try to get as close to 100% muslim as they can over time. Don't act like you don't know about the systematic and persistent persecution of christians, jews, hindus, even zoroastrians in muslim countries. I was born in Iraq. My whole family is Christian (a huge minority). We never had any problems practicing our religion and women were treated equally as men there. Mind you, I'm not religious myself. but most of my family is. What I find it funny is that the US happened to use Iraq as part of its war to "free Iraqis" when there are countless other countries in the world where people suffer far worse human rights violations. Anyway, that's beyond the point. You can't make a statement like the one you made earlier and not expect to be called out on it. This is what I find disturbing. We are Canadians. We value freedom. Peace. Tolerance. People are so caught up in the acts of extremists that they are ignorantly chastizing an entire religion for it. I ask all of you to think critically; to open your mind before casting such judgements on others. It's so easy to isolate people who are different from ourselves. As Canadians, we often laugh when we look at the USA and how they treat minorities. Sadly, the way I have seen many people speak about and treat Muslims is a reminder that no country is too good to succumb to the thrill of a witch hunt. Instead of trying to divide, we should promote peace in the world. This is what we value. Comradery among all Canadians. If we believe in freedom, then we must allow people to openly practice their religion (so long as their religious beliefs conform to our laws). We must embrace our differences as opportunities to learn from each other, while trying to promote the values of freedom throughout the world. That does not mean we cannot disagree with others, but that we must remain civil and work together in a spirit of cooperation. Attacking those who are different from ourselves is truly one of the most unpatriotic acts. The very first mention of fundamental freedoms in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms proudly declares that we all have the freedom of conscience and religion and the freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression. I hope that we all remember to continue to treat people from all over the world with respect and that we do not let propaganda and the pressures from the media steer us away from continuing to serve as a world leader and an exemplery model of the peaceful coexistence of differing religions, ethnicities, political beliefs, opinions, and attitudes. We're Canadian. Let's keep acting that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 ^ +1 agreed! Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpp Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Now most people these days would read something like luke 19:27 and chalk it up to mis-quote, mis-translation, or any number of things, but the Christians who carried out the inquisition, the bible-thumper fundamentalists we tend to fear even today - they've read the books as well as anyone here and they can square that behaviour with a passage in the New Testament. You don't even need to reference the homicidal, genocidal Old Testament. i hate to turn this thread to concentrating on quotes from religious texts, but i really don't see what is so bad about that passage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Freedom of speech. Cornerstone of a free and democratic society. Protects Neo-Nazis too. Etc. I should probably just quote my previous post, but I'll again say that thousands of Muslims co-exist just fine, don't break any laws, serve with distinction in our armed forces, work their jobs just like everyone else, pay their taxes, love their family, and contribute to our nation and our culture. Trying to paint these people as some sort of terrorist waiting to happen is just as ignorant as those Neo-Nazis and their beliefs regarding skin colour. I think you need to seriously reconsider your stance on all of this. Thousands of muslims do co-exist in this country with some struggle. And the reason some of them co-exist is because they break Islam in many ways. That's the only way they can. I'm not trying to paint muslims as terrorists waiting to happen. It's not just about terrorism. It comes down to the many small things. Look at the history of sweden before they became something like 6% muslim and look at them now. Muslims have started their anti-semetic behaviour because there are references to it in the quaran. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/even-a-tolerant-country-cannot-tolerate-intolerance/article1672437/ Crime rates have shot up crazily. Some reports show it's mostly immigrants of most whom are muslims. (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1372959/posts) Gay pride parades which the liberal swedes love a yearly occasion is now complained against and sometimes attack by muslims. Swedes want to be with muslims, but right from young ages, muslim kids are taught to discriminate and separate based on islam. there are schools with 90%-100% immigrants (mostly muslims) now. (Norway similar problems: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE8kmJlJWRs) Swedes always complain about muslim integration problems.. etc The problem is NOT muslims, it's the quran which leaves no room for interpretation. It is literally God's unadulterated words. And that book aggressively attacks jews, gays and non-muslims in many verses. Read the book. I was born in Iraq. My whole family is Christian (a huge minority). We never had any problems practicing our religion and women were treated equally as men there. Mind you, I'm not religious myself. but most of my family is. What I find it funny is that the US happened to use Iraq as part of its war to "free Iraqis" when there are countless other countries in the world where people suffer far worse human rights violations. Anyway, that's beyond the point. You can't make a statement like the one you made earlier and not expect to be called out on it. Really? Women in Iraq are treated equally? Just because some loose laws portray that doesn't mean it's true. Women are killed for marrying non-muslims (QURAN) and sometimes non-iraqis (no clue from where this happened). "In March 2008 an Iraqi 17-year-old girl was violently murdered by her father and two older brothers for becoming friendly with a British soldier. When her mother ran away out of defiance of such a cruel act, she was found dead on her street, shot in the head twice. The father was released after two hours of questioning from the Iraqi police force and was neither charged nor tried with the murder of his own daughter, although he had confessed to killing her.[8] This is an example of the systematic discrimination and violence women face every day for the simple sin of being a woman." There are marriage problems, rape and abuse statistics and polygamy problems which I won't expand on. Persecution and ill-treatment of christians in Iraq, TIME magazine: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,699409,00.html I think iraq is still better than the countries who are more islamic than them in how they treat christians though. (Iran, saudi, yemen, etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Charlie Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Thousands of muslims do co-exist in this country with some struggle. And the reason some of them co-exist is because they break Islam in many ways. That's the only way they can. This is the exact, 100% same thing that Christians are forced to do. When was the last time someone sold their daughter into slavery? How many people get stoned to death for working on the sabbath? These are things in the Bible that people ignore because they're not crazy *******s. Crime rates have shot up crazily. Some reports show it's mostly immigrants of most whom are muslims. (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1372959/posts) Heh, Free Republic.com isn't exactly an unbiased news source. Next you're going to cite Fox News, or Glenn Beck, or something. The problem is NOT muslims, it's the quran which leaves no room for interpretation. It is literally God's unadulterated words. And that book aggressively attacks jews, gays and non-muslims in many verses. Read the book. And what do you think the Bible is supposed to be? You think the Bible is just some pulp fiction the Christians gave out at rallies that people use as toilet paper? So, once again, if people commit crimes they get arrested. All religions are screwed up and insane, and people pick and choose what they adhere to whether they Christian, Muslim, or Moonie. If people aren't breaking the law, their beliefs are none of your business, and as the vast, vast majority of Muslims are good Canadians, there's really nothing to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosuperman Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 i hate to turn this thread to concentrating on quotes from religious texts, but i really don't see what is so bad about that passage. If I remember correctly its to the tune of "take non-believers and slaughter them in front of me". (Edit: I know its a parable but my point was that its very easy to interpret that very literally and some Christians have done so the same way Muslims have - this was in response to Axel's "Christian books are more pure than Muslim books" post.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 If people aren't breaking the law, their beliefs are none of your business, and as the vast, vast majority of Muslims are good Canadians, there's really nothing to discuss. You got it right, TC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Fourth suspect will have bail hearing on Friday for his latest charge. His charge relates to domestic violence and does not involve anything terrorism related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Charlie Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 If I remember correctly its to the tune of "take non-believers and slaughter them in front of me". (Edit: I know its a parable but my point was that its very easy to interpret that very literally and some Christians have done so the same way Muslims have - this was in response to Axel's "Christian books are more pure than Muslim books" post.) The parable is about a nobleman who gives his servants some bling and tells them to trade for more. The jist of it is that people who do what the nobleman says are rewarded in proportion to their dedication to following the noble's instructions, while those who go against the noble's will are punished. It's representative of people who accept Jesus as their master and doing his will going to heaven, while people who reject Jesus going to hell. An interesting fact is that it's not until Jesus shows up that eternal torture for the souls of disobedient sinners in the form of hell is conjured up. The Old Testament, for all its murder and rape and slavery endorsed by god, at least let's people be done with Yahweh and his cruelty when they finally kick the bucket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 This is the exact, 100% same thing that Christians are forced to do. When was the last time someone sold their daughter into slavery? How many people get stoned to death for working on the sabbath? These are things in the Bible that people ignore because they're not crazy *******s. lol, I thought about this while writing the last post, hahah. some christians definitely be crazy. But the difference is the books. And it would be take me multiple essay-like posts to prove it to some legitimate extent that the quran is significantly more aggressive, bellicose and intolerant that the bible. So just read the books, it's not too hard to figure out. And you point out 2 crazy things in there. If you accumulate aggressive verses in the quran and bible, the quran would outdo the bible is quantity and degree of intolerance. Heh, Free Republic.com isn't exactly an unbiased news source. Next you're going to cite Fox News, or Glenn Beck, or something. Hey hey, freerepublic isn't anything close to glenn beck or fox. That article is not biased, it's statistical if anything. There are a few biased reports on there just like any other new source. They don't deserve to be shot down in the spirit that you'd shoot down fox. And what do you think the Bible is supposed to be? You think the Bible is just some pulp fiction the Christians gave out at rallies that people use as toilet paper? So, once again, if people commit crimes they get arrested. All religions are screwed up and insane, and people pick and choose what they adhere to whether they Christian, Muslim, or Moonie. If people aren't breaking the law, their beliefs are none of your business, and as the vast, vast majority of Muslims are good Canadians, there's really nothing to discuss. The quran has verses which tells muslims to never befriend non-believers or ally with them, for allah hates them. Qur'an (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." Then the quran has a verse which says that muslims should PRETEND to be friends with non-believers (especially to escape persecution), but they should still never inwardly accept them. I can't remember all the verses, one was 3:28 (Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends. Whoso doeth has no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves, taking (as it were) security (or escape discrimination, persecution)) Now, this is wrong enough. But it gets worse when you read what the Hadith says about this. Muslims strictly follow quran and everyone knows this. But the Hadith are narrations concerning the words and deeds of muhammad (peace be upon the world rather than him). They also interpret that muslims should be pretend friends until they become majority. I really don't remeber the verse numbers, but read the hadith, it's got some scary stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axel Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Maybe, except that like 99.999% of terrorist acts in North America are committed by muslims/arabs. I've never heard of a Jew or Christian from Canada attempting to blow up a plane or embassy within Canada. lol what's wrong with Fox News? I'd say its one of the least biased sources. Now CNN on the other hand is ridiculous. Fox news is pretty biased captaincruchman. But your latter statement is significant. CNN is also biased to an extent and people don't recognize this. But in today's world, it's rare to have a neutral news source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hking03 Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 I'd have to agree- most news sources are biased, especially if they have any association with political parties. However, I find BBC news to be fairly unbiased in terms of north american content... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 I find BBC news to be fairly unbiased in terms of north american content... perhaps there, but not everywhere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanMaverick Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 The Onion has never let me down in terms of being biased as a news source... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinch Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 There are maybe 1.3 billion moslems in the world. That is 300 million more moslems than ALL THE WHITES in the world. In other words, ALOT of people. How many have been involved in real serious terrorist attacks in western nations over the last decade?? (I not that there is plently of 'terrorism' or 'resistance' in majority moslem nations and Israel where the terrorrists come from occupied territories). Around 100, 200 at most. There were more individual murderers and child rapists over the last decade in Toronto alone - let alone the whole western world. How many people in western nations have died from terrorist attacks over the last 10 years?? At most, 4-5 thousand - with the vast majority in the WTC. Excluding the WTC, probably not much more than 1000 (mainly in spain, uk, russia (if considered western). Even in countries like India, including the Mumbai attack, the number of dead from terrorist attacks in the last 10 years is less than 1000 - even less than those killed by the maoists. In other words, dying from terrorism is very rare, and the numbe of moslems involved in terrorist attacks in miniscule. The numbers are of course obvious. But I guess with the interet the way it is - a story isolated to a small geographical area gets spread around the whole world in minutes. I am a christian, but I don't follow every single thing in the bible literally (especially the old testament). Most moslems are similar. Unfortunately some like to isolate themselves to only themselves, and become hateful little mongers. Those are the moslems (and jews and christians) that I and all of us should dislike. Moslems seem more prone to it than other religions though - but it's still a minority among them. Some people on this site want to push this hatred onto almost all of them for some ideological reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinch Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 tc man, read the bible and koran. I've read a little bit and they are vastly different in their approach. The difference is that the bible will say reject, and the koran will use kill or hate; it's just way more aggressive and intolerant. And you can see the evidence of this vast difference. Christian nations will take refugees and people of all religions (reluctantly sometimes) and allow them to practice their religion although most hope to convert them. Muslim nations will usually end up killing off any other religion and get them as close to 99% muslim as possible. Dubai, one of the most liberal muslim nations in the world, won't let a non-muslim get citizenship. No muslim countries will let any other religion even build a setting where they can pray and worship. You draw a terrible picture of jesus and christians will condemn it angrily and reject it. Draw a picture of muhammed and you're sure to have death threats, embassy burnings, violence and just a more aggressive response. This behavior isn't random, it's based on the religion's philosophy and verses. The evidence is here for us to see. There's no denying it. I can go on ranting. But from the root (books) to the end (world), you can see the difference between christianity and islam. lol, if comedy central wasn't afraid then i wouldn't be so afraid. Aside from Saudi Arabia, all moslem nations allow churches and synagogues to be built. Plenty of them in north africa, egypt, iran, iraq, syria, lebanon, turkey, pakistan, etc. Christianity has evolved as their primary nations evolved. 200 years ago, YOU could get killed for stating anti-christian things - heck, women were burned at the stake if people thought they were witches. This is very recent in the grand scheme of things. Christian meddling basically destroyed the races and cultures of Autralia, Tasmania, Polynesia, and N/S America. MILLIONS DEAD and RAPED. Christopher Columbus came on a religious mission. Those native indians didn't all convert on masse because they loved their white christian murderers and usurpers! Those slaves didn't convert because they loved their white christian slave masters. They were forced to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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