Terrorists caught across Ottawa, London...one's a Doctor.

[sfinch]

 

And this is why minorities often cant trust the majorities in the country they live in. I sincerely hope you white christians who hate moslems so much will treat a moslem child or woman who is ill when you become doctors, instead of just treating them like extremist crap.

 

Being a good christian,or being a good human for that matter, involves treating people with respect and dignity. For the many moslem haters on this board, especially those of you in med school (there are a couple even in my class) - I really hope you grow up.

 

And to be fair, I think many moslems don't follow their religion fully - it is just a religion, and I think it is made up. To moslems on this board - you will not convince anyone your religion is right. I have read islamic texts, and they are not to my taste. But I also acknowledge your religion is no more evil than others either. Best of luck, and I hope the hate that many Canadians bestow upon you (whether you are religious or not - some are hated merely for their name or their colour), you can turn the other cheek.

 

The

[mdDave]

Was that the best you could come up with, vague generalisation just cause you cant come up with anything concrete. "You need the context", yes that applies for everything, You dont wanna put your time in research and understand what something is about so you come up with lame statements like above. Help yourself, dosnt make a difference to anyone except you. If I dont wanna believe that the Soviet's invasion of East Germany was justified, I wouldnt look at the background that the German's attacked the soviet's first either.

 

vague generalization? I GAVE YOU FREAKING STATISTICS ABOUT WHAT MUSLIMS THINK IN AMERICA. My point was: If I don't know the context/need to know arabic/don't understand/need divine guidance or some other pathetic excuse in order to understand the quran than forget it, let's look at how muslims understand it. And there it is, a staggering 68% of them want to see homosexuals killed. Put that to context big man. That is something I find unacceptable and the 68% that voted that way should GTFO. Simple.

 

 

That dosnt happen? Does your mind go only as far back as the dawn of your version of radical islam. Were The Crusades not holy wars started by the christians, declared actually by the Pope who is the considered the authority when it comes to religious matters, ever heard of the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre ? I guess not.

Sad that you have to go back to medieval times to find something morally equivalent of what muslims are doing today. I was talking about modern times. There is no more crusaders today.

 

You ARE misinterpreting the Quran, but a lot of Muslims are NOT. That is the reason why most of the muslims are not terrorists, that is why most of them are peaceful and dont kill every non-muslim they see. They actually take the time to understand the religion and its book, unlike ignorant deluded fools like yourself.

 

Actually I was surprised how little the moderate muslims I talked to knew about Islam. Most are muslim by name, but have not much to do with the actual religion. I have nothing against those.

Yes some Muslims do misinterpret Quran. Muslims arnt a special divine race that all will follow the religion perfectly. Those which misinterpret it DO develop hardline beliefs, that is why they commit terrorism. The stats about the death penalty implemented for homosexuals, legitimacy of jewish targets and sharia law all represent the opinions of the same nutcases who protest to implement sharia in GB. You got any idea what support they have or how popular these kinds of people are in the muslim world ? Guess what, for your information these people are highly unpopular, no one takes them seriously and generally thought of as misguided trouble makers back in thier own countries as well. Heck look at the number of their You like to take a biased sample from a muslim minority country, like to call them actual believers and then infer something about the whole muslim world. Go ahead and please yourself.

 

No I don't know what muslims think in their home countries. I'm pretty sure they are more radical but quite frankly I don't care. I don't care what happens to them or their countries, their fate is in their own hands. What I care about is the country I live in. And the muslim minority that is here is apparently quite terrifying.

 

Just because chrisitans dont follow their religion you assume Muslims dont follow theirs either. PATHETIC. Why dont you take the liberty of actually asking the moderate muslims what they follow and what they dont. Have you ever read the Quran thoroughly with explanation. Infact have you actually studied islam. Your hatemonger kind are breeds of the propagandist media whose sole motive is to potray islam as terrorism. You claim the REAL islam makes a terrorist just like REAL christianity made crusaders. Utter nonsense. If it clears you deffidled head then listen :- THEIR ARE ONLY TWO KINDS OF MUSLIMS, EXTREME ONES = TERRORISTS and REAL ONES = MODERATE. Any real muslim knows more than YOU what they follow, cause unlike yours we actually have islamic studies in our academic curriculum from Grade 1 till 12 thank fully, so that when we come across a hate preacher like you we actually know what we are talking about.

Yes I've read the Quran.

I even started on some hadiths but stopped after the muslims I was debating were somewhat confused as to which hadiths are real or authentic and which are BS.

The fact that you have Islamic studies is pretty sad and reminds me of the brainwashing I had to endure in my Catholic school, except it's probably much much worse.

[future_doc]

Speaking of Nazis, in an unprecedented move today, Board Member of Bundesbank, Mr. Sarrazin has been dismissed with no reason given and stripped of all responsibilities. Board members may only be dismissed for serious misconduct.

 

He had stated that all Jews share the same genes that separate them from other people. This is an embarressment to Germany given their nazi past. The German President is to be formally informed tomorrow. It is expected that he will contest his removal in Court, thereby ensuring even greater discomfort to Germany.

[Wayward son]

Any real muslim knows more than YOU what they follow, cause unlike yours we actually have islamic studies in our academic curriculum from Grade 1 till 12 thank fully

 

Are you saying that any muslim who did not go to a faith school which indoctrinated them with islamic propaganda for a dozen years is not a real muslim?

 

Are you saying that muslim parents who want their children to be exposed to people from all walks of life and therefore send their children to a public school and leave the religious education of their children to their home and church as it should be, are not real muslims?

 

We need children who can actually think for themselves and not who have spent their entire lives being indoctrinated. Faith schools should be banned.

 

And as to the constant claims that we need to have the words, meaning and context of muhammad interpretted by whoever you happen to believe does the best job of massaging his message to your liking. Was he drunk? Stonned? I don't need an interpretor to explain your posts on this message board. If your prophet was too incompetent to explain what he meant then he is not worth listening too.

 

All people deserve respect, but not all ideas do.

[axel]

chaplin, hahahahahahah, your comments are ignominious. i actually cringed when reading them because you basically defeat your own stance throughout them, hahah. please stop.

[Guest viscous]

Are you sure you are referring to the right Muhammad Al-Ghazali? I think that you are actually quoting the great 20th century egyptian reformer and moderate. Despite his writings on human rights he declared that anyone who did not accept sharia law fully and completely was a apostate and should be killed either by the government or by religious muslims.

 

 

 

5:33 explains what is to be done to those who are guilty of mischief or corruption. Not pretty. The rest of quran explains what qualifies as mischief or corruption and includes apostacy. Seeing as we are all considered to be born muslims, therefore any non-muslim is an apostate. I don't think I know a single person, including the many muslims I know, who would not be put to death if the quran was followed by the letter.

 

You might be right, I could not find the book huquq al-insaan (the Human rights) in the research project dedicated to Abu Hamed Muhammad Al-Ghazali's (rahimAllah) page.

[Wayward son]

You might be right, I could not find the book huquq al-insaan (the Human rights) in the research project dedicated to Abu Hamed Muhammad Al-Ghazali's (rahimAllah) page.

 

I noticed that you dropped the rest of your post. That makes me sad. I was looking forward to replying to it.

[Doc2Law]

Hahah, most people here posting offensive/hate/prejudice comments about Muslims have no knowledge of Politic/Economy and Religion.

 

They just post what's called "A matter of opinion" generated with the hype made by Medias.

 

Using corrupted and old versions of the Quran to justify your thoughts won't make you any credible guys.(Read the real Quran book and compare it to the new versions that came up after 2001, you'll see, huge difference.)

[axel]

I noticed that you dropped the rest of your post. That makes me sad. I was looking forward to replying to it.

 

I saw it too, I was looking forward to destroying it also.

 

Hahah, most people here posting offensive/hate/prejudice comments about Muslims have no knowledge of Politic/Economy and Religion.

 

They just post what's called "A matter of opinion" generated with the hype made by Medias.

 

Using corrupted and old versions of the Quran to justify your thoughts won't make you any credible guys.(Read the real Quran book and compare it to the new versions that came up after 2001, you'll see, huge difference.)

 

hahaha, yes another lame weak muslim defence.

 

You're telling me the 'old versions' were corrupted and new are 'authentic'? Wow, that's really some reverse philosophy there. Usually the older books are authentic and newer ones are corrupt.

 

Now are you going to tell me to learn arabic because I'm not interpreting 'kill' properly in english?

[tennisball]

[Tango Charlie]

And the irony in all of this is that 9/11 and other attacks came as a result of a perceived, whether wrongly or justly, persecution of Muslims by the West. I can only imagine what sort of world we'd live in if the intolerant, bigoted *******s in this thread had any sort of political clout. When we ought to be building bridges, you idiots want to burn them. Xenophobia: Not just for Americans anymore.

[axel]

And the irony in all of this is that 9/11 and other attacks came as a result of a perceived, whether wrongly or justly, persecution of Muslims by the West. I can only imagine what sort of world we'd live in if the intolerant, bigoted *******s in this thread had any sort of political clout. When we ought to be building bridges, you idiots want to burn them. Xenophobia: Not just for Americans anymore.

 

We've been and are building plenty of solid bridges with chinese, indians, europeans, filipinos, vietnamese, arab-christians etc...

[mdDave]

And the irony in all of this is that 9/11 and other attacks came as a result of a perceived, whether wrongly or justly, persecution of Muslims by the West. I can only imagine what sort of world we'd live in if the intolerant, bigoted *******s in this thread had any sort of political clout. When we ought to be building bridges, you idiots want to burn them. Xenophobia: Not just for Americans anymore.

 

Now 9/11 is our fault. Stick to anatomy my friend, don't bother with politics or anything else for that matter

[Guest viscous]

I saw it too, I was looking forward to destroying it also.

 

 

 

hahaha, yes another lame weak muslim defence.

 

You're telling me the 'old versions' were corrupted and new are 'authentic'? Wow, that's really some reverse philosophy there. Usually the older books are authentic and newer ones are corrupt.

 

Now are you going to tell me to learn arabic because I'm not interpreting 'kill' properly in english?

 

you cant destroy me, I'm invincible for you. I dropped my text cuz it was irrelevant to the topic at hand, it would start a whole new debate on the fallibility of human morality and law drafting accordingly.

 

sfinch has consistently shown how your posts are full of bull**** that no rational person should pay attention to. I dont agree with sfinch's assertion of problems in Islamic theology (theology is usually related to studying the divine and fighting in Islam comes under military jurisprudence (فقه الجهاد) and not theological matters) but he is spot on in flushing your vomit down into the drain.

[Doc2Law]

I saw it too, I was looking forward to destroying it also.

 

 

 

hahaha, yes another lame weak muslim defence.

 

You're telling me the 'old versions' were corrupted and new are 'authentic'? Wow, that's really some reverse philosophy there. Usually the older books are authentic and newer ones are corrupt.

 

Now are you going to tell me to learn arabic because I'm not interpreting 'kill' properly in english?

 

Your hatred against a community or religion won't get you far in the Medical Profession, even if you're lucky enough to get in, i doubt you will go 6 months without being sued by a Plaintiff/HL Lawyer acting like this.

 

 

You're trying to put Muslims in the same bag as Terrorists.

I can also say that Americans are all mentally hill and barbaric because

some soldiers killed civilians in Iraq.

[axel]

Don't worry, I'll treat my muslim patients equally regardless of however hard you try to twist my words and attack me. It's my duty and the ethical thing to do.

 

The quran is a flawed, problematic, aggressive and intolerant book. It disallows co-existence, which is what USA and canada and most of the world (except islamic countries) are integrally about. I thank the lord that many muslims in canada have the intelligence to NOT follow the quran or islam like it's supposed to be. But it's horrible influence will stay because after all it is there and it is being read and many muslims are pressured right from youth to follow it.

 

peace be upon muslims and the world, not their prophet.

[tennisball]

[Tango Charlie]

 

In this thread, and prominently in the States lately, people are criticizing Islam. That's fine. I think people should be critical of that religion. But, these people are only criticizing Islam, and that's what the problem is. Every time axel, for instance, drones on about how bad Islam is and posts some quote or whatever, there are similar quotes that could be presented from the Bible. There aren't many things terrible from the Qur'an that you won't find in the Bible, and there's nasty stuff in the Bible that the very obvious plagarism that is the Qur'an happens to leave out. The point is that Christianity is just as evil and disgusting of a religion, the Bible just as twisted and man-made a book. This isn't a criticism of religion, which as an atheist I'm all for, all day err'day, it's divisive, pro-Christian Islamophobia, and it's pathetic and blinkered and will only make whatever problems Islam itself may be causing worse. The correct approach is universal derision of religion, insisting that all of them be equally disdained, and not selective targeting of one particular group and the bolstering of another.

 

Now 9/11 is our fault. Stick to anatomy my friend, don't bother with politics or anything else for that matter

 

Yes, because that's what I said. In fact, as you can see, I clearly wrote that mdDave was specifically responsible for 9/11. So, thanks for causing 9/11, mdDave.

 

Also, if anyone should stay the hell away from politics or anything else that involves not being an ignorant ****, I'd say it's you fellows going on your tear about how awful Islam is. Go back to watching Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly and the other idiots of Fox News, and keep your ignorant opinions to yourselves.

[bpp]

In this thread, and prominently in the States lately, people are criticizing Islam. That's fine. I think people should be critical of that religion. But, these people are only criticizing Islam, and that's what the problem is. Every time axel, for instance, drones on about how bad Islam is and posts some quote or whatever, there are similar quotes that could be presented from the Bible. There aren't many things terrible from the Qur'an that you won't find in the Bible, and there's nasty stuff in the Bible that the very obvious plagarism that is the Qur'an happens to leave out. The point is that Christianity is just as evil and disgusting of a religion, the Bible just as twisted and man-made a book. This isn't a criticism of religion, which as an atheist I'm all for, all day err'day, it's divisive, pro-Christian Islamophobia, and it's pathetic and blinkered and will only make whatever problems Islam itself may be causing worse. The correct approach is universal derision of religion, insisting that all of them be equally disdained, and not selective targeting of one particular group and the bolstering of another.

 

most religions teach peace, charity and such at their core, but a minority of extremists and passages in religious texts often give religion a bad name. obviously there were atrocities in the past caused(or carried out) by mainstream religions, but i dont think that is reason enough to say they are all terrible(i dont know if you would also label buddhism and hinduism as "evil and disgusting"). to me, it seems the same looking at some quotes from hitler and his actions and saying that the whole political right is evil, or to do the same for stalin and say the whole political left is evil. i do, however, agree that as a whole Islam is no worse than Christianity.

[Wayward son]

most religions teach peace, charity and such at their core

 

The Torah, Bible and Quran do not teach peace, charity and such at their core. They are sidenotes after obedience, submission and punishing and/or killing those who do not obey and submit to the nonsensical rules that permeate those books.

[Tango Charlie]

It's a funny though, that Christianity or Islam have peace as a core tenet. The Christian god sanctioned war after war after genocide. Islam was spread through warfare and conquest. They're religions born out of blood, and are as violent and primitive as the men who invented them.

 

Oh, and chastity. Isn't it funny how sex and sexuality, so integral to love as they are, are suppressed? In what universe is chastity actually a virtue? We are really going to let a bunch of demented old virgins who fondle young boys tell us that not having sex with women is something to be proud of? Like hell. While obviously a degree of personal responsibility is necessary, sex is human, sex goes hand-in-hand with love, and it's deplorable that we had something natural and fun like sex warped into Original Sin, a perverse act that people should be ashamed of and should only do after a priest says some meaningless words to them and even then, should only be done to make babies.

 

Ahem. But, yes, they're both equal in their faults and trying to prop one up over the other as has been attempted in this thread is retarded.

[Doc2Law]

Don't worry, I'll treat my muslim patients equally regardless of however hard you try to twist my words and attack me. It's my duty and the ethical thing to do.

 

The quran is a flawed, problematic, aggressive and intolerant book. It disallows co-existence, which is what USA and canada and most of the world (except islamic countries) are integrally about. I thank the lord that many muslims in canada have the intelligence to NOT follow the quran or islam like it's supposed to be. But it's horrible influence will stay because after all it is there and it is being read and many muslims are pressured right from youth to follow it.

 

peace be upon muslims and the world, not their prophet.

 

Go get a Bachelor of Theology studies, then MAYBE, you will be able to judge a religion without making yourself look like an ignorant fool who watches too much Television.

 

I know a lot of religious people who are muslims and they are very peaceful, sincere and never got problems with justice.

 

You way of thinking is absolutely outrageous, that's just like saying "Oh, we should only care about normal people, overweight people are all fat scumbags who eat too much", but lots of overweight have diseases that pushed them into becoming overweight.

 

I don't think you're in a position to judge anyone or anything unless you really know about it.

No, reading garbage on Racism websites won't increase your IQ.

Did jesus really changed water into wine ? I could use that argument to say that Christianism is flawed and incoherent.

 

 

Before you call me a fat muslim pig billing 430,000$ avg/year, i would like to point out that i'm atheist, so please, keep your offensive comments to yourself.

[axel]

Go get a Bachelor of Theology studies, then MAYBE, you will be able to judge a religion without making yourself look like an ignorant fool who watches too much Television.

 

I know a lot of religious people who are muslims and they are very peaceful, sincere and never got problems with justice.

 

You way of thinking is absolutely outrageous, that's just like saying "Oh, we should only care about normal people, overweight people are all fat scumbags who eat too much", but lots of overweight have diseases that pushed them into becoming overweight.

 

I don't think you're in a position to judge anyone or anything unless you really know about it.

No, reading garbage on Racism websites won't increase your IQ.

Did jesus really changed water into wine ? I could use that argument to say that Christianism is flawed and incoherent.

 

 

Before you call me a fat muslim pig billing 430,000$ avg/year, i would like to point out that i'm atheist, so please, keep your offensive comments to yourself.

 

I'm pretty sure you're 15, maybe 16 max. lol

 

Anyway, here's some stuff you should read (but can't answer...because the quran is untenable)

 

medguy:

Aren't these quotes from the Quran?

 

 

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

 

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

 

Sura72:15 “The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.”

 

"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush." (Sura 9:5)

 

2:216 “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not."

 

“I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.” (Qur'an 8:12)

 

“Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are ruthless to the Unbelievers, but merciful to each other.” (Qur'an 48:29)

 

"But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."(22:19-22)

 

"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah… (8:39)"

 

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty." (9:123)

 

 

And I wonder if these are ALL taken "out of context"...

 

Also, let's not forget that the "Prophet" Muhammad had sexual intercourse with a nine-year-old child.

 

 

mdDave: This is such a typical and lame defense of Islam (or other religions for that matter). "You need the context" or "You need to read it in arabic". Ok forget it, let's look at what actual muslims believe: 68% of AMERICAN muslims want to see the death penalty implemented for homosexuals. 2 out of 5 british muslims think jews are a legitimate target for them. 40% of them also want to see shariah law implemented in GB.

If I'm misinterpreting the Quran, than apparently so are a lot of muslims and in the end that's what matters. The religion is defined by it's believers, not it's holy books IMO. Sure there are violent verses in the Bible or the Talmud that could promote terrorism or violence but you know what? IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

 

BTW sfinch in the future please don't try to compare those who oppose radical islam to nazis. It's weak. Besides, It's me who's opposed to the ideology which believers elected Ahmedinejad who want's to see another holocaust happen as he said himself.

 

 

Why do you keep emphasizing the fact that the Canadian population of muslims are not all terrorists that want to blow up everybody around them.

 

We know this and accept it.

 

Look at the whole picture. The quran will make any person who follows it slowly but surely opposed to homos and jews and intolerant to other religions. OF COURSE this doesn't mean they'll ALL want to behead every homo they see, but some will (islamic countries) and some will just dislike them a bit (some western muslims)

.

The problem is the theology is rooted in causing this intolerance. This intolerance ranges from disliking jews to not treating them equally to opposing building of synagogues (dearborn michigan) to violently opposing peace-parades by jews (USA/Europehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19qRD3MDpk8) to actually physically assaulting them (EUROPE: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/7278532/Jews-leave-Swedish-city-after-sharp-rise-in-anti-Semitic-hate-crimes.html) to wanting to blow them up (islamic countries)!

Now this whole spectrum is rooted in the Quran. The verses of the quran.. they're a problem.

 

Argue all you want, but it's there for everybody to see. Every canadian, american and european is beginning to know the problem with the quran. We've seen plenty of evidence from over the past few years covering almost every corner of the world and ranging from the smallest to the biggest incidents.

 

Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

 

There is a good case to be made that the textual context of this particular passage is defensive war, even if the historical context was not. However, there are also two worrisome pieces to this verse. The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution" (a qualification that is ambiguous at best). The second is that fighting may persist until "religion is for Allah." The example set by Muhammad is not reassuring.

 

 

Qur'an (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

 

This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Qur'an, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

 

 

Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

 

"People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in just the next 100 years.

[tennisball]

How all the moderate muslims in britain protest

 

[bpp]

I'm pretty sure you're 15, maybe 16 max. lol

 

Anyway, here's some stuff you should read (but can't answer...because the quran is untenable)

 

medguy:

Aren't these quotes from the Quran?

 

 

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

 

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

 

Sura72:15 “The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.”

 

"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush." (Sura 9:5)

 

2:216 “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not."

 

“I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.” (Qur'an 8:12)

 

“Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are ruthless to the Unbelievers, but merciful to each other.” (Qur'an 48:29)

 

"But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."(22:19-22)

 

"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah… (8:39)"

 

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty." (9:123)

 

 

And I wonder if these are ALL taken "out of context"...

 

Also, let's not forget that the "Prophet" Muhammad had sexual intercourse with a nine-year-old child.

 

 

mdDave: This is such a typical and lame defense of Islam (or other religions for that matter). "You need the context" or "You need to read it in arabic". Ok forget it, let's look at what actual muslims believe: 68% of AMERICAN muslims want to see the death penalty implemented for homosexuals. 2 out of 5 british muslims think jews are a legitimate target for them. 40% of them also want to see shariah law implemented in GB.

If I'm misinterpreting the Quran, than apparently so are a lot of muslims and in the end that's what matters. The religion is defined by it's believers, not it's holy books IMO. Sure there are violent verses in the Bible or the Talmud that could promote terrorism or violence but you know what? IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

 

BTW sfinch in the future please don't try to compare those who oppose radical islam to nazis. It's weak. Besides, It's me who's opposed to the ideology which believers elected Ahmedinejad who want's to see another holocaust happen as he said himself.

 

 

Why do you keep emphasizing the fact that the Canadian population of muslims are not all terrorists that want to blow up everybody around them.

 

We know this and accept it.

 

Look at the whole picture. The quran will make any person who follows it slowly but surely opposed to homos and jews and intolerant to other religions. OF COURSE this doesn't mean they'll ALL want to behead every homo they see, but some will (islamic countries) and some will just dislike them a bit (some western muslims)

.

The problem is the theology is rooted in causing this intolerance. This intolerance ranges from disliking jews to not treating them equally to opposing building of synagogues (dearborn michigan) to violently opposing peace-parades by jews (USA/Europehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19qRD3MDpk8) to actually physically assaulting them (EUROPE: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/7278532/Jews-leave-Swedish-city-after-sharp-rise-in-anti-Semitic-hate-crimes.html) to wanting to blow them up (islamic countries)!

Now this whole spectrum is rooted in the Quran. The verses of the quran.. they're a problem.

 

Argue all you want, but it's there for everybody to see. Every canadian, american and european is beginning to know the problem with the quran. We've seen plenty of evidence from over the past few years covering almost every corner of the world and ranging from the smallest to the biggest incidents.

 

Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

 

There is a good case to be made that the textual context of this particular passage is defensive war, even if the historical context was not. However, there are also two worrisome pieces to this verse. The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution" (a qualification that is ambiguous at best). The second is that fighting may persist until "religion is for Allah." The example set by Muhammad is not reassuring.

 

 

Qur'an (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

 

This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Qur'an, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

 

 

Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

 

"People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in just the next 100 years.

 

so in the same post you say a religion should be judged by its followers not by its religious texts, but also post half a dozen quotes from the quran to support your argument that islam is violent. as for those statistics you posted, i highly doubt their validity.