Terrorists caught across Ottawa, London...one's a Doctor.

[mdDave]

pastor just said he won't burn it. There ya go

[future_doc]

pastor just said he won't burn it. There ya go

 

The pastor's spokeslady says the burning has not been cancelled, just postponed.

 

The games continue. There ya go

[Chaplin]

Two countries that don't have real freedom of speech/freedom of expression asking the President of a country that has both to overthrow its constitution because of some little piss ant church and minister. No thanks. One irony, among many, is that the President of Pakistan didn't stop the burning of american flags at a protest against the possible burning of Korans.

 

Is Rev. Jones a moron? Yes.

Is he being offensive? Yes.

Should he be condemned and criticized? Yes.

Should his freedom of speech/expression be violated by the government? No.

 

 

Why isnt "freedom of speech" brought up when people who hold antisemitic views were and are still being victimized just because of their views, but suddenly becomes prominent when it come to defence against cartoons publishing or burning Quran. People can get jailed, lose their jobs in Europe or America for expressing anti semitic views. But in that case government intervention is perfectly legal ???

 

Regarding your previous post,

Are you saying that any muslim who did not go to a faith school which indoctrinated them with islamic propaganda for a dozen years is not a real muslim?

 

Are you saying that muslim parents who want their children to be exposed to people from all walks of life and therefore send their children to a public school and leave the religious education of their children to their home and church as it should be, are not real muslims?

 

We need children who can actually think for themselves and not who have spent their entire lives being indoctrinated. Faith schools should be banned.

 

And as to the constant claims that we need to have the words, meaning and context of muhammad interpretted by whoever you happen to believe does the best job of massaging his message to your liking. Was he drunk? Stonned? I don't need an interpretor to explain your posts on this message board. If your prophet was too incompetent to explain what he meant then he is not worth listening too.

 

All people deserve respect, but not all ideas do.

 

I wasnt going to answer this because obviously you manipulated it for your own reasoning, but im feeling generous today. Let me explain this in simpler easy to understand words so that you can understand . Kindly pay attention and read slowly, since from your post you took the meaning that any muslim kid who has religion as part of academic curiculum was sent to a religious school located in a remote village with a bearded pagan for a teacher forcing us to memorize Quran 24/7 , and getting stoned to death for disobedience. Then NO. Muslims who completed their public school education in Muslim countries had Islamic studies in school as a subject along with science subjects, maths, computer science , statistics, english, cultural studies and history as well. We've been taught about Islam from a young age so that in the world of today with much uncertainty and misconception about our faith, we have knowledge while growing up what our religion is about. Parents of kids born here, were given that same education and passed it along to their kids, because very few of them were themselves born here. Those and their kids were the kind of people I was referring to Real muslims, who guide their kids to live as peaceful, tolerant people, following islam in a peaceful manner, follow its five principles, read the Quran for their personal guidance and follow it themselves, yet discourage them from unislamic deeds.

Most of the muslim students are taught about Islam as part of our high school curriculum and regardless of what people in the west think, were fine with it. We appreciate it. Its part of our tradition and we should know it. We question our faith, compare it with others do everything. In this age of information and technology brain washing, especially for the student and literate class is no longer possible. Apparently since you've never been exposed to our courses you dont know anything about what is taught in it.

 

Your Q & A :-

 

Are you saying that any muslim who did not go to a faith school which indoctrinated them with islamic propaganda for a dozen years is not a real muslim?

No. Very few kids go to faith schools, and I fail to understand how a person who is taught Islam in a peaceful way is taught propaganda and how anyone who did not study it except on the news, got wind about it, heard it from some where or read it for a an hour or two knows all about it.

 

Are you saying that muslim parents who want their children to be exposed to people from all walks of life and therefore send their children to a public school and leave the religious education of their children to their home and church as it should be, are not real muslims?

If you mean im saying that people who only allow their kids to be sent to religious schools are true muslims then No. If you read my entire post carefully and just ddnt spend your day staring at that one sentence, I said people who have had islamic education and in a way that does not encourage carrying out terrorism are Real muslims. Because that is the real Islam, and Islam encourages scientific education. Yes knowledge of islam is required to be a Muslim, and what I mean by that is described above. Am I labelling parents who send their kids to study in international communities or exposed them to global environments Fake Muslims, just because Islam is presumed by many to be weak enough that it will be rejected by the educated, open minded. No Im not. Sending children to a mosque or a church isnt the sole source of religious education.

Faith schools should be banned you say. Then why dont you be practical for once and lead a campaign against them, and dont hesitate to request the dean's of universities to exclude religious courses from their institutions. Faith schools should exist. If people want to learn about their religion then their should be schools devoted to teaching about them.

 

 

And as to the constant claims that we need to have the words, meaning and context of muhammad interpretted by whoever you happen to believe does the best job of massaging his message to your liking. Was he drunk? Stonned? I don't need an interpretor to explain your posts on this message board. If your prophet was too incompetent to explain what he meant then he is not worth listening too.

 

Judging from your posts and complete lack of knowledge about islamic education in muslim countries not only do you need an interpretor, but even a psycologist to clear your opinion about acquirement of religious education removing the intellectual capacity of a person. And as to my constant claims that you need to have the words, meaning, alphabets and context of Quran interpretted by whoever you claim I happen to believe does the best job of massaging Allah's message to my liking. Then, YES, YES and YES. Because most of the terrorists now a days are getting brainwashed by misinterpretation and into thinking Allah had sent them down to blow themselves up, or kill which ever non muslim they set their eyes upon. You dont want to listen to Muhammad ( fill in your insults here, for my part PBUH), dont, no ones going to ask you too. but more than 1 billion people do think hes worth listening do and are brainwashed by him. Thats what matters.

[future_doc]

Pastor Jones now says he will not burn the Koran now or any time in the future. He is presently in NYC.

[axel]

Why don't they just move the damn mosque.

 

It's within muslim's right to build a mosque right beside the WTC site if they wanted to and we can't do a thing about it.

 

But the closer they build it to the WTC site, the more insensitive people will think it is and the more worse the image of muslims will get in america. And the last thing they want is the image of muslims getting worse in america. They're being offered money and another awesome site by the frickin city and private investors themselves.. wow. Then why not move it?! Are they trying to get people to hate them even more? Because they that's what'll happen.

 

There's something wrong here.

 

PS. This whole mosque issue has been over-bloated by some idiot politicians anyway... It's completely legal and legitimate. Nobody would've even cared much if they hadn't sensationalized it.

[future_doc]

Many Moslem were killed in the WTC. Every religion seems to have their extemists and terrorists. The vast majority of Moslems are peaceful and law abiding citizens, as is the case for members of other religions.

 

Those intending t0 build the mosque have no reason to give in to hatred, which is not justified. Frankly, being offered money to go awayt is an insult and if I was them, I wouold not accept.

 

PEACE!

[axel]

Why don't they just move the damn mosque.

 

It's within muslim's right to build a mosque right beside the WTC site if they wanted to and we can't do a thing about it.

 

But the closer they build it to the WTC site, the more insensitive people will think it is and the more worse the image of muslims will get in america. And the last thing they want is the image of muslims getting worse in america. They're being offered money and another awesome site by the frickin city and private investors themselves.. wow. Then why not move it?! Are they trying to get people to hate them even more? Because they that's what'll happen.

 

There's something wrong here.

 

PS. This whole mosque issue has been over-bloated by some idiot politicians anyway... It's completely legal and legitimate. Nobody would've even cared much if they hadn't sensationalized it.

[future_doc]

Many Moslem were killed in the WTC. Every religion seems to have their extemists and terrorists. The vast majority of Moslems are peaceful and law abiding citizens, as is the case for members of other religions.

 

Those intending t0 build the mosque have no reason to give in to hatred, which is not justified. Frankly, being offered money to go awayt is an insult and if I was them, I would not accept.

[mdDave]

70% of Americans want it moved.

If the Imam want's to build bridges and not just piss people off, he should move it.

By building it more and more Americans will hate Islam.

[future_doc]

Irrational fear across America.

 

To give in to intolerance, to bullying would be a mistake I believe.

 

These act law abiding, good, loyal citizens and they should proceed as planned.

 

Haters will alwasy be haters. And there willo always be haters.

[mdDave]

Irrational fear across America.

 

To give in to intolerance, to bullying would be a mistake I believe.

 

These act law abiding, good, loyal citizens and they should proceed as planned.

 

Haters will alwasy be haters. And there willo always be haters.

 

I won't be deciding for America what is a rational fear and what is not. It's their country, their business.

The imam is far from such an outstanding citizen as you seem to think.

And yes there are always haters, but when the haters are 70% of the population I think there is more at play than just irrational prejudice.

[future_doc]

It's not about the imam.

 

It's about acceptance and tolerance to which Moslems are absolutely entitled as citizens and as human beings. There were hates in Nazi Germany and look what happened, same with Rwanda and other places.

 

Giving in to haters only escalates and there is no stopping point. No, it is simple, no giving in. Hate is irrational prejudice. People will learn and adjust over time. THose who suffered, who feel pain don't need to, don't have a right to impose their will on other decent Americans, nor do those who have not suffered.

 

It will play out and we are only interested spectators.

 

PEACE.

[mdDave]

lol why does every 12 year old have to bring up nazi germany when talking about modern day America? It's actually quite Ironic since America supports Israel very strongly while it is not secret that muslims hate Jews and Israel with a passion and some even praise hitler.

 

But yeah the situation is kind of a bad one since whatever the outcome will be there will be a backlash and increased hatred.

If they don't move it I think there will be a serious increase in anti-muslim sentiments. If they do move it, it does question religious freedom in America...

[future_doc]

to be continued in the fullness of time................

[axel]

future_doc, you are a very helpful member on this forum and seem like a nice person. But you post like..every other post on this thread, haha.

 

Maybe you should increase the quality of your posts and reduce the quantity?

 

I don't mean this offensively at all, I'm actually a big fan of how you try to be as civil and peaceful as you can in discussions.

[future_doc]

The only members ever who come after me always say what a nice person I am, how helpful I mean to be, etc. then say they don't mean to be offensive, hahaha and attack my posts in whatever way.....have a nice day man.

 

Quality is a matter of perception, lol, I invite you to please, please use the ignore function for my posts and you won't be bothered. It's your choice. And do you have any idea what members think of your posts, just asking? So, you take care of cleaning your house, and I will look after mine without any help with you or others.

 

I have many critics lately here who don't enjoy reading my posts, are never specific about what exactly they don't like in each post and they refuse to put me on an ignore list, so they carry a heavy burden, lol, of their own choice. You and RyanMaverick share a viewpoint that I don't share. But then again, after all, this is a public forum and there is place for us all. And hopefully, we all try to be kind and helpful on this forum. NewfieMike has already publicized that I am Coordinator of one aspect of our forthcomin' Covention and I invite you to attend, so that I may kill you with kindness.

 

PEACE.

[RyanMaverick]

The only members ever who come after me always say what a nice person I am, how helpful I mean to be, etc. then say they don't mean to be offensive, hahaha and attack my posts in whatever way.....have a nice day man.

 

Quality is a matter of perception, lol, I invite you to please, please use the ignore function for my posts and you won't be bothered. It's your choice. And do you have any idea what members think of your posts, just asking? So, you take care of cleaning your house, and I will look after mine without any help with you or others.

 

I have many critics lately here who don't enjoy reading my posts, are never specific about what exactly they don't like in each post and they refuse to put me on an ignore list, so they carry a heavy burden, lol, of their own choice. You and RyanMaverick share a viewpoint that I don't share. But then again, after all, this is a public forum and there is place for us all. And hopefully, we all try to be kind and helpful on this forum. NewfieMike has already publicized that I am Coordinator of one aspect of our forthcomin' Covention and I invite you to attend, so that I may kill you with kindness.

 

PEACE.

 

Hey f_d,

 

I'm not involved in this thread and there is no reason to bring me up in your other conversations. You also conviently left out the part that I PMed about exactly what you're saying people aren't doing. I do so in a private and civil manner.

 

It's your perogative if you don't want to acknowledge or discuss it, but please refrain from bringing me up in other public threads. I'm happy to discuss anything with you via PM. However you have a habit of attacking members passive-aggressively in other threads and I would prefer you not do the same to me.

[Ubiquitine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmxA0OYTDy0

 

 

Someone else answered for me, i guess the French speakers of this forum will laugh.

 

Well i'm late but a big LOL for that

[sfinch]

The mosque issue is a complicated thing.

 

If moslems purchased land within two blocks to build a mosque in an average city of a place attacked by moslem terrorists - it would in my mind be offensive. Of course they would have the right to do it.

 

Manhattan is oddly different. 2 blocks away in a city that size bight as well be 2 km away in a normal city. Those two blocks containg 10s of thousands of people and thousands of businesses. It is the most densely populated 1st world area in the world. No where at the site do you in fact really see ground zero - and its not a mosque with a mineret or anything. It's basically like a jewish community center.

 

Honestly, try to imagine someone blocking jews from building a synagogue near an area considered historical in America. It wouldn't even be thought off.

 

Of course - the argument is that jews did not attack America, moslems did. And that is true. But those moslems were only a few dozen foreign nationals among 1.3 billion or so moslems in the world.

 

Jews did attack and kill brits and westerners in the 1940s era palestine with terrorist attacks - anyone advocating that jews should have been forbidden from building synagogues in britain post WWII would have been rightly labelled an anti-semite.

 

I have already mentioned that Islam is in my humble opinion a relgion based on man made stories. Nothing wrong with that - I think to some degree all religions, even my own, have man made parts to them. I just find it sad that moslems seem to be the one group that can be attacked publicly with racist and bigotry with little consequence - even people simply with 'moslem' names - even if other religions or atheist - get tagged and insulted for no reason but perceived religion. We have already seen that behaviour on this board alone.