Terrorists caught across Ottawa, London...one's a Doctor.

[Apixaban85]

Honest question here: Why is it that the Western religions (Islam, Judaism, and Christianity) all seem to be more involved in wars/struggles/conflicts than the 'Eastern' religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism etc.)?

 

Is it just a difference in philosophy?

[RyanMaverick]

Ahh medguy...have you not read the old testament. Or parcels of the talmud. There are plenty of blood curdling pieces of hatred in both holy scriptures. The talmud is considered so extreme, you cannot get a hold of it in english translation except at large judaica stores or major university libraries mainly because large jewish groups feel that out of context it may feed into hateful anti-semitism.

 

Viscious hateful things are in most religions. In my opinion Islam is no different, but not more extreme either.

 

The bible has TONS of pieces saying one should kill whole villages where there is single non-believer. Yes, it is in the bible. Most christians just ignore it.

 

Medguy...go read the old testament again...and not just the pieces your pastor tells you.

 

So the best plan is to dislike ALL religions then? I knew I had it right all along! Seriously, why do we keep these antiquated ideologies around anyways?

[hking03]

So the best plan is to dislike ALL religions then? I knew I had it right all along! Seriously, why do we keep these antiquated ideologies around anyways?

 

I say we venture forth into the wonderful world of scientology:) it's where all the celebs are hanging these days.

 

On a side note- Andy Rodd.i.c.k. lost in the 2nd round of the US Open today... it's probably one of the saddest things I've seen this year in sports:(

 

Oh, and on a side side note- I had to spell his name with ".'s" in it because the forum bleeped it out:P

[Chaplin]

Aren't these quotes from the Quran?

 

 

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

 

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

 

Sura72:15 “The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.”

 

"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush." (Sura 9:5)

 

2:216 “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not."

 

“I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.” (Qur'an 8:12)

 

“Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are ruthless to the Unbelievers, but merciful to each other.” (Qur'an 48:29)

 

"But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."(22:19-22)

 

"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah… (8:39)"

 

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty." (9:123)

 

 

And I wonder if these are ALL taken "out of context"...

 

Also, let's not forget that the "Prophet" Muhammad had sexual intercourse with a nine-year-old child.

 

 

 

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Islam-947/Muslims-non-muslim-friends.htm

 

Pretty much you answered your own question. Ill quote my previous post here. Every Verse of Every surah has its own context and is interpreted in that way. Ask me to explain everyone of these and I will gladly. So please in your ignorance, dont claim that these incite hatred against Christians and Jews, just because the website you got these from picked up an assortment of strong versus from the middle of certain events and posted them here. I suggest you to do some research yourself, if understanding them is your motive that is. Big fat books of explanation and interpretation exist for a reason. Also if it pleases you I could quote versus from the bible, which unless properly explained seem to support slavery, rape and murder.

 

 

Regarding Hazrat Aisha, that is another debate, which I would'nt discuss here, neither do i expect you to be satisfied with it. BTW Were you in the bedroom with the Prophet (PBUH), or did you see any evidence of it yourself. Just because he married her, dosnt mean he had a sexual intercourse with her?. Assume what you will, but that by no means means its reality. Its something people against Islam have always been fussing about. Any hater of Christianity could with as much reason claim, that Jesus was born of an illegitimate relationship too, since Mary went alone somewhere and came back with him. That is as much likely as above.

[Wayward son]

Also if it pleases you I could quote versus from the bible, which unless properly explained seem to support slavery, rape and murder.

 

No, properly explained those verses DO support slavery, rape, murder and genocide. People can turn themselves into pretzels to try to explain away the evil things that are promoted in their "good" books if they want. But other people are not ignorant if they refuse to wear the same blinders and rose-colored glasses of the true believers when looking at the quran and the bible.

[Chaplin]

No, properly explained those verses DO support slavery, rape, murder and genocide. People can turn themselves into pretzels to try to explain away the evil things that are promoted in their "good" books if they want. But other people are not ignorant if they refuse to wear the same blinders and rose-colored glasses of the true believers when looking at the quran and the bible.

 

Being a pretzel to hide the truth is one thing, however misinterpretation without keeping in mind the facts and realities and passing judgement based on that is another. If anyone looks at something in any Holy book, he/she can form an opinion on it just by looking, no problem, but refusing/ignoring to look at it in the context of why and when it was written and then interpreting it as you please or in a twisting fashion just to potray it as "savagery and evil" IS ignorance.

[mdDave]

Being a pretzel to hide the truth is one thing, however misinterpretation without keeping in mind the facts and realities and passing judgement based on that is another. If anyone looks at something in any Holy book, he/she can form an opinion on it just by looking, no problem, but refusing/ignoring to look at it in the context of why and when it was written and then interpreting it as you please or in a twisting fashion just to potray it as "savagery and evil" IS ignorance.

 

This is such a typical and lame defense of Islam (or other religions for that matter). "You need the context" or "You need to read it in arabic". Ok forget it, let's look at what actual muslims believe: 68% of AMERICAN muslims want to see the death penalty implemented for homosexuals. 2 out of 5 british muslims think jews are a legitimate target for them. 40% of them also want to see shariah law implemented in GB.

If I'm misinterpreting the Quran, than apparently so are a lot of muslims and in the end that's what matters. The religion is defined by it's believers, not it's holy books IMO. Sure there are violent verses in the Bible or the Talmud that could promote terrorism or violence but you know what? IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

 

BTW sfinch in the future please don't try to compare those who oppose radical islam to nazis. It's weak. Besides, It's me who's opposed to the ideology which believers elected Ahmedinejad who want's to see another holocaust happen as he said himself.

[ygella]

Aren't these quotes from the Quran?

 

 

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

 

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

 

Sura72:15 “The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.”

 

"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush." (Sura 9:5)

 

2:216 “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not."

 

“I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.” (Qur'an 8:12)

 

“Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are ruthless to the Unbelievers, but merciful to each other.” (Qur'an 48:29)

 

"But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."(22:19-22)

 

"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah… (8:39)"

 

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty." (9:123)

 

 

And I wonder if these are ALL taken "out of context"...

 

Also, let's not forget that the "Prophet" Muhammad had sexual intercourse with a nine-year-old child.

 

002.062 Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. -Surah baqarah

[ygella]

So the best plan is to dislike ALL religions then? I knew I had it right all along! Seriously, why do we keep these antiquated ideologies around anyways?

 

We live in such a world where we can freely read and study all the religions. I also believe that every religion has a problem with it. I think we should look at all religions and take what we think is good and set that as our guidelines. Essentially all religions have the same message: Don't steal, don't lie, don't kill, believe in God, do good deeds, be human.

 

We don't need to strictly follow a religion to be good people.

[axel]

WTF, I'm looking over the major hadiths and this is weird lol.

 

What are Hadiths? They are a vital part of Islam and to understanding the Quran. It is a compilation of muhammed's own words, stories and actions.

 

Hadiths have plenty of problematic verses in them... but this is just bizarre:

 

I quote from Sahih al-Bukhari [Most Muslims view this as their most trusted collection of hadith and it is considered the most authentic book after the Qur'an.[1]] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahih_al-Bukhari)

 

"Anas bin Malik said, "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)." And Sa'id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven). Volume 1, Book 5, Number 268. "

 

The hadiths also outline how he'd time it well according to their menstrual cycle to have intercourse. And people praised his sexual stamina... apparently equal to 30 men.

 

I don't have any problem with muhammed engaging in plentiful sex, that doesn't make anyone evil, neither is it wrong. I just found it bizarre to read in a book that's second to the quran. lol

 

Some other weird references I came across in the same hadith:

 

Volume 1, Book 4, Number 229:

Narrated 'Aisha:

I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it (water spots were still visible).

 

Volume 1, Book 4, Number 230:

Narrated 'Aisha:

as above (229).

 

Volume 1, Book 4, Number 231:

Narrated Sulaiman bin Yasar:

I asked 'Aisha about the clothes soiled with semen. She replied, "I used to wash it off the clothes of Allah's Apostle and he would go for the prayer while water spots were still visible. "

 

Anyway, there's nothing wrong with these verses in the hadith. No aggression or intolerance in these. Interesting to read though definitely.

[sfinch]

This is such a typical and lame defense of Islam (or other religions for that matter). "You need the context" or "You need to read it in arabic". Ok forget it, let's look at what actual muslims believe: 68% of AMERICAN muslims want to see the death penalty implemented for homosexuals. 2 out of 5 british muslims think jews are a legitimate target for them. 40% of them also want to see shariah law implemented in GB.

If I'm misinterpreting the Quran, than apparently so are a lot of muslims and in the end that's what matters. The religion is defined by it's believers, not it's holy books IMO. Sure there are violent verses in the Bible or the Talmud that could promote terrorism or violence but you know what? IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.

 

BTW sfinch in the future please don't try to compare those who oppose radical islam to nazis. It's weak. Besides, It's me who's opposed to the ideology which believers elected Ahmedinejad who want's to see another holocaust happen as he said himself.

 

As much as Ahmedinejad is a douchebag, he never stated he wanted another holocaust. That was truly a puroposeful translation twisting, and even atheist Ahmedinejab hating persians that excaped Iran observed this (as they speak the language). His nation has strong protective laws for synagogues and jewish groups anyways - they are allowed to drink, wear unconservative clothes and so forth.

 

Tehran itself is very liberal - where people drink, party, and do drugs like no tomorrow, just beneath the surface. It is the rural areas where people are religious and conservative - they however win elections. Much like the rural bumpkins in the US and Canada electing conservative governments.

 

Is he a holocaust deniar? He seems to minimize it like a fool because some white supremacists like David Duke do, and he has gets in his mind that he now has some 'western' support. The official beliefs of the religious authorities in Iran is that the holocaust did indeed happen (and of course, committed by christians), and the jews in his parliament protested Ahmedinajad's **** comments (yes, there is even an elected jew or two in the iranian parliament). His translation from Farsi to english DID NOT SAY that he wanted a holocaust or anything close to it - this was exposed by virtually all european newsbroadcasters - but of course the US and Global ignored that.

 

Religious violence DOES happen elsewhere. A funny thing is the justification of how in Hebron, where only 500 militant jews live among 100 000 palestinians, they jews get 50% of the water and all the protected roads. IN OCCUPIED terrictory. IF that is not religion being justified to brutally opress others (moslems and christians), I have no idea.

 

Apartheid was VERY recent and white christian protestants used religion to justify it.

 

Are moslems putting homosexuals to death on a regular basis despite what the surveys say? The very few cases in Saudi and Iran that do exist are because of some bizarre circumstance beyond homosexuality (usually rape of a child) - if homosexuals were being hunted down, I am pretty sure more than 5 would be killed in the whole islamic world in any given year. Germany certainly had no difficulty in hunting down and killing thousands. Are moslems mass killing jews? In Iran, Turkey, Morocco, the minorities live largely unmolested. In areas like France, UK, Canada, and USA, there are very few moslems killing jew cases at al (with one in France involving financial extortion as the motive and included some white christian antagonists as well). In fact, in Canada, the last time a jew was killed for his religion, it was a white christian kid.

 

White christian nations HAVE killed alot more people than vice versa. Including children and women. Our nations however use airplanes, and guided missiles, with powerful high tech armies, and savvy media people making the whole thing look sterlized. White christians don't need to use terrorism, because they have the wealth and power and have no trouble with their militaries doing the dirty work. The day white christians lose true economic power in the USA, is when the violent militias in Michigan and Montana will lash out. Tim McVeigh was just a bit early on the ball. Jews engaged in vicious terrorism in Palestine before Israel's birth, killing tons of Brits and Arabs - several Israeli leaders were wanted terrorists in the 1940s.

 

I remember when several white conservatives, when I was a kid, hated Mandela for being a terrorist. Sometimes the weak have only a few ways to fight.

 

Anyways, I am not a big fan of the religion of Islam. But the people are largely nice people. AND I JUDGE PEOPLE BY HOW THEY ACT. AND THERE IS NO VAST MURDER CONSIPIRACY AMONG THEM THAT I HAVE WITNESSED. There are tons of arabs and moslems in London - can't remember a single case of murder or a major crime among any of them except the arrest of this pathologists who is from montrel. Sadly I can't say the same about other ethnic and religious groups in London.

[axel]

Why do you keep emphasizing the fact that the Canadian population of muslims are not all terrorists that want to blow up everybody around them.

 

We know this and accept it.

 

Look at the whole picture. The quran will make any person who follows it slowly but surely opposed to homos and jews and intolerant to other religions. OF COURSE this doesn't mean they'll ALL want to behead every homo they see, but some will (islamic countries) and some will just dislike them a bit (some western muslims)

.

The problem is the theology is rooted in causing this intolerance. This intolerance ranges from disliking jews to not treating them equally to opposing building of synagogues (dearborn michigan) to violently opposing peace-parades by jews (USA/Europehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19qRD3MDpk8) to actually physically assaulting them (EUROPE: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/7278532/Jews-leave-Swedish-city-after-sharp-rise-in-anti-Semitic-hate-crimes.html) to wanting to blow them up (islamic countries)!

Now this whole spectrum is rooted in the Quran. The verses of the quran.. they're a problem.

 

Argue all you want, but it's there for everybody to see. Every canadian, american and european is beginning to know the problem with the quran. We've seen plenty of evidence from over the past few years covering almost every corner of the world and ranging from the smallest to the biggest incidents.

[Tango Charlie]

Why do you keep emphasizing the fact that the Canadian population of muslims are not all terrorists that want to blow up everybody around them.

 

We know this and accept it.

 

It's probably because you ignore literally everything written in this thread that doesn't concur with your rather limited viewpoint, and say stuff like...

 

Look at the whole picture. The quran will make any person who follows it slowly but surely opposed to homos and jews and intolerant to other religions. OF COURSE this doesn't mean they'll ALL want to behead every homo they see, but some will (islamic countries) and some will just dislike them a bit (some western muslims)

 

This. There are Muslims in Canada who are nothing like what you choose to stereotype them as, and you really should be embarrassed to say these simple-minded things so easily, as they really don't reflect well upon you.

 

And as I've said maybe a hundred times so far, there's the same kind of calls for murder and bigotry and otherwise evil in the Bible, and yet nonetheless you're for some reason not suggesting that every Christian will slowly but surely become opposed to homosexuals and people of other religions (although obviously some do use Christianity as the basis for those beliefs).

 

It's too bad that religious discussions always turn out this way.

[Guest viscous]

Honest question here: Why is it that the Western religions (Islam, Judaism, and Christianity) all seem to be more involved in wars/struggles/conflicts than the 'Eastern' religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism etc.)?

 

Is it just a difference in philosophy?

 

aah the ignorance.

 

First of all, Islam arose from Arabia. Is Arabia in the "East" or the "West?" That is arbitrary but what is the region called today? The last time I heard, its called the "Middle East?" Doesnt it? How can you call it a "Western religion?" There are more Muslims in Indonesia than in Arabia. Indonesia is a "Western" country? Lol. Or are you calling Islam "western" religion because Arabs are related to the Jews genetically?

 

Go back and read the history of Hinduism and Buddhism. Rife with battles, murders and exterminations. Over the last 3000 years! I am not talking about the last 500 years, about the last 3000 including the Vedic period.

 

Even in Buddhism, Buddha had to defeat mara. There is violence in Buddhism. Hindu Kings exterminated Buddhists. When Buddhist king Ashoka came to over, he also exterminated many Hindus.

 

In Hinduism's most widely known book the Bhagvad Gita, Krishna the god appears to Arjuna the warrior and tells him that fighting is Arjuna's dharma and he cant run away from the battle (apparently arjuna wanted peace and not battle as he saw uncles and cousins leading the opposite army and he did not want to kill them) and that it is his dharam (obligation) to kill the enemies even though he dislike it. To me that is violence and not the ahimsa (non-violence) philosophy developed by other Hindus (ahimsa was most probably philosophized by Jains and then taken over by Hindu sages) and brought to limelight by Gandhi.

 

One of the responsibilities of a Sikh man is to carry a Kirpan with him. Kirpan is a deadly instrument. During the 1947 Independence, Sikhs mass murdered Muslims migrating to Pakistan on trains. The trains that used to finally arrive at Lahore (Pakistan) from India brought parcels of dead bodies and blood pools (including breast feeding toddlers), starkly in contrast to the hustle and bustle in them when they would depart from India.

[future_doc]

Historically, religion has been a method of world population control - unfortunately, i.e., war and mass murder.

[Guest viscous]

Why do you keep emphasizing the fact that the Canadian population of muslims are not all terrorists that want to blow up everybody around them.

 

We know this and accept it.

 

Look at the whole picture. The quran will make any person who follows it slowly but surely opposed to homos and jews and intolerant to other religions. OF COURSE this doesn't mean they'll ALL want to behead every homo they see, but some will (islamic countries) and some will just dislike them a bit (some western muslims)

.

The problem is the theology is rooted in causing this intolerance. This intolerance ranges from disliking jews to not treating them equally to opposing building of synagogues (dearborn michigan) to violently opposing peace-parades by jews (USA/Europehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19qRD3MDpk8) to actually physically assaulting them (EUROPE: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/7278532/Jews-leave-Swedish-city-after-sharp-rise-in-anti-Semitic-hate-crimes.html) to wanting to blow them up (islamic countries)!

Now this whole spectrum is rooted in the Quran. The verses of the quran.. they're a problem.

 

Argue all you want, but it's there for everybody to see. Every canadian, american and european is beginning to know the problem with the quran. We've seen plenty of evidence from over the past few years covering almost every corner of the world and ranging from the smallest to the biggest incidents.

 

On that account We ordained for the Children of Isra`il that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole humanity. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear (guidance), yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (Quran 5:32)

Life is not only of infinite value, it is also sacred: "Nor take life which God has made sacred, except for a just cause" (Quran, 17:33).

 

Al-Ghazali has quoted these ayat and drew the conclusion that "in respect of the sanctity of life and the prohibition of aggression against it, Muslims and non-Muslims are equal. Attack on the personal safety of non-Muslims invokes the same punishment in this world and the Hereafter". [Muhammad Al-Ghazali, Huquq al-Insan, p. 54]

 

Al-Ghazali is one of the most celebrated philosophers and scholars from early Islamic period, in case you did not know which I reckon is most likely after seeing your posts here.

[Guest viscous]

Historically, religion has been a method of world population control - unfortunately, i.e., war and mass murder.

 

dont really agree with that as I have not come across enough evidence of that claim in regards to all religions that are in existence today.

[future_doc]

I was thinking of the Crusades and nazis, but if you add in ethnicities, then you have Rwanda, Bosnia, Sudan. I don't know what was behind Cabodia. And the you have the nuclear bombing in Japan that was not religiously based. It seems that mankind delights in finding reasons to kill mankind that has some differences, and this is mostly called war. Lately, we have suicide bombers who go for killing a couple to hundreds. It seems that killing is a growth industry, as are guns, armaments, weapons and Iran (along with N.K.) seem to have killing in mind.

[sfinch]

Why do you keep emphasizing the fact that the Canadian population of muslims are not all terrorists that want to blow up everybody around them.

 

We know this and accept it.

 

Look at the whole picture. The quran will make any person who follows it slowly but surely opposed to homos and jews and intolerant to other religions. OF COURSE this doesn't mean they'll ALL want to behead every homo they see, but some will (islamic countries) and some will just dislike them a bit (some western muslims)

.

The problem is the theology is rooted in causing this intolerance. This intolerance ranges from disliking jews to not treating them equally to opposing building of synagogues (dearborn michigan) to violently opposing peace-parades by jews (USA/Europehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19qRD3MDpk8) to actually physically assaulting them (EUROPE: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/7278532/Jews-leave-Swedish-city-after-sharp-rise-in-anti-Semitic-hate-crimes.html) to wanting to blow them up (islamic countries)!

Now this whole spectrum is rooted in the Quran. The verses of the quran.. they're a problem.

 

Argue all you want, but it's there for everybody to see. Every canadian, american and european is beginning to know the problem with the quran. We've seen plenty of evidence from over the past few years covering almost every corner of the world and ranging from the smallest to the biggest incidents.

 

That Malmo article is amusing. The Telegraph is a right wing neo-con newspaper that was owned in the same group as the jeresaleum post and the national post. But there are a few telling things in that article.

 

1. The moslems are being attacked as well.

 

"Mr Becirov, who arrived in 1962 from the former Yugoslavia, said that windows were regularly smashed, pig's heads had been left outside the mosque, and outbuildings burnt down - probably the acts of Neo-Nazis who have also baited Jews in the past"

 

2. In the 2nd/3rd largest city in Sweden (depending on definition), not a single jew has been directly attacked let alone killed. Not one. This is not an epidemic. This is not some new holocaust in the making.

 

"As of yet, no direct attacks on people have been recorded but many Jews believe it is only a matter of time in the current climate. "

 

Hate crimes include internet postings and verbal harassment on the street, which is dispicable by the way. By that definition, Axel could possibly considered to have committed a hate crime against moslems this week! It is awful. But what these jews may be experiencing is exactly what I experienced from whites as a kid in small town BC, and what tons of minorities around the world unfortunately go through. It is awful, and the offending scum should be arrested, but it is not specific to the offending community.

[mdDave]

 

Hate crimes include internet postings and verbal harassment on the street, which is dispicable by the way. By that definition, Axel could possibly considered to have committed a hate crime against moslems this week! It is awful. But what these jews may be experiencing is exactly what I experienced from whites as a kid in small town BC, and what tons of minorities around the world unfortunately go through. It is awful, and the offending scum should be arrested, but it is not specific to the offending community.

 

Yeah lock up anyone who has a problem with radical Islam and muslims. I understand there is no free speech in this country but honestly that's too funny and is never going to happen so you can stop your pathetic threats right there.

And if you were as racist toward whites as some of your postings on this forum indicate than it's no wonder you didn't get along with white kids as a child.

 

On a more serious note, yes there are good muslim people no one is denying that. Yes the majority are probably good citizens.

Here is the thing, people say that extremists are not actually practicing Islam. That Islam is peace and all that. I believe moderate muslims are NOT practicing Islam. Just like Christians don't really practice everything in the Bible. If you take the Bible (especially the old testament) literally and practice your faith according to it, it would be a freaking disaster. Same thing with the Quran. REAL or fundamental Islam makes terrorists and terrorist sympathizers just like REAL or fundamental Christianity made Crusaders back in the day.

 

As for Iran, I agree that there is hope. I wish that Persian revolution thing went further but it's difficult for them with the violent suppression by the Islamic government. But yeah, if it wasn't for the bomb which can mess everything up, I'm pretty sure Iran in a few decades will not be a Islamic Republic anymore

[future_doc]

As for Iran, I agree that there is hope. I wish that Persian revolution thing went further but it's difficult for them with the violent suppression by the Islamic government. But yeah, if it wasn't for the bomb which can mess everything up, I'm pretty sure Iran in a few decades will not be a Islamic Republic anymore

 

Unfortunately, it looks like war will occur, the question appears to be "when" and not "if".

[Wayward son]

Al-Ghazali is one of the most celebrated philosophers and scholars from early Islamic period, in case you did not know which I reckon is most likely after seeing your posts here.

 

Are you sure you are referring to the right Muhammad Al-Ghazali? I think that you are actually quoting the great 20th century egyptian reformer and moderate. Despite his writings on human rights he declared that anyone who did not accept sharia law fully and completely was a apostate and should be killed either by the government or by religious muslims.

 

On that account We ordained for the Children of Isra`il that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the whole humanity. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear (guidance), yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (Quran 5:32)

 

5:33 explains what is to be done to those who are guilty of mischief or corruption. Not pretty. The rest of quran explains what qualifies as mischief or corruption and includes apostacy. Seeing as we are all considered to be born muslims, therefore any non-muslim is an apostate. I don't think I know a single person, including the many muslims I know, who would not be put to death if the quran was followed by the letter.

[axel]

Qur'an (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

 

There is a good case to be made that the textual context of this particular passage is defensive war, even if the historical context was not. However, there are also two worrisome pieces to this verse. The first is that the killing of others is authorized in the event of "persecution" (a qualification that is ambiguous at best). The second is that fighting may persist until "religion is for Allah." The example set by Muhammad is not reassuring.

 

 

Qur'an (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

 

This passage criticizes "peaceful" Muslims who do not join in the violence, letting them know that they are less worthy in Allah's eyes. It also demolishes the modern myth that "Jihad" doesn't mean holy war in the Qur'an, but rather a spiritual struggle. Not only is the Arabic word used in this passage, but it is clearly not referring to anything spiritual, since the physically disabled are given exemption. (The Hadith reveals the context of the passage to be in response to a blind man's protest that he is unable to engage in Jihad and this is reflected in other translations of the verse).

 

 

Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

 

"People of the Book" refers to Christians and Jews. This was one of the final "revelations" from Allah and it set in motion the tenacious military expansion, in which Muhammad's companions managed to conquer two-thirds of the Christian world in just the next 100 years.

[Chaplin]

This is such a typical and lame defense of Islam (or other religions for that matter).

"You need the context" or "You need to read it in arabic".

 

 

Ok forget it, let's look at what actual muslims believe: 68% of AMERICAN muslims want to see the death penalty

implemented for homosexuals. 2 out of 5 british muslims think jews are a legitimate target for them. 40% of

them also want to see shariah law implemented in GB.

If I'm misinterpreting the Quran, than apparently so are a lot of muslims and in the end that's what matters.

The religion is defined by it's believers, not it's holy books IMO. Sure there are violent verses in the Bible

or the Talmud that could promote terrorism or violence but you know what? IT DOESN'T HAPPEN

 

 

 

Was that the best you could come up with, vague generalisation just cause you cant come up with anything concrete. "You need the context", yes that applies for everything, You dont wanna put your time in research and understand what something is about so you come up with lame statements like above. Help yourself, dosnt make a difference to anyone except you. If I dont wanna believe that the Soviet's invasion of East Germany was justified, I wouldnt look at the background that the German's attacked the soviet's first either.

 

 

That dosnt happen? Does your mind go only as far back as the dawn of your version of radical islam. Were The Crusades not holy wars started by the christians, declared actually by the Pope who is the considered the authority when it comes to religious matters, ever heard of the St. Bartholomew's Day massacre ? I guess not.

You ARE misinterpreting the Quran, but a lot of Muslims are NOT. That is the reason why most of the muslims are not terrorists, that is why most of them are peaceful and dont kill every non-muslim they see. They actually take the time to understand the religion and its book, unlike ignorant deluded fools like yourself.

Yes some Muslims do misinterpret Quran. Muslims arnt a special divine race that all will follow the religion perfectly. Those which misinterpret it DO develop hardline beliefs, that is why they commit terrorism. The stats about the death penalty implemented for homosexuals, legitimacy of jewish targets and sharia law all represent the opinions of the same nutcases who protest to implement sharia in GB. You got any idea what support they have or how popular these kinds of people are in the muslim world ? Guess what, for your information these people are highly unpopular, no one takes them seriously and generally thought of as misguided trouble makers back in thier own countries as well. Heck look at the number of their You like to take a biased sample from a muslim minority country, like to call them actual believers and then infer something about the whole muslim world. Go ahead and please yourself.

 

People say that extremists are not actually practicing Islam. That Islam is peace and all

that. I believe moderate muslims are NOT practicing Islam. Just like Christians don't really practice everything

in the Bible. If you take the Bible (especially the old testament) literally and practice your faith according to

it, it would be a freaking disaster. Same thing with the Quran. REAL or fundamental Islam makes terrorists and

terrorist sympathizers just like REAL or fundamental Christianity made Crusaders back in the day

 

Just because chrisitans dont follow their religion you assume Muslims dont follow theirs either. PATHETIC. Why dont you take the liberty of actually asking the moderate muslims what they follow and what they dont. Have you ever read the Quran thoroughly with explanation. Infact have you actually studied islam. Your hatemonger kind are breeds of the propagandist media whose sole motive is to potray islam as terrorism. You claim the REAL islam makes a terrorist just like REAL christianity made crusaders. Utter nonsense. If it clears you deffidled head then listen :- THEIR ARE ONLY TWO KINDS OF MUSLIMS, EXTREME ONES = TERRORISTS and REAL ONES = MODERATE. Any real muslim knows more than YOU what they follow, cause unlike yours we actually have islamic studies in our academic curriculum from Grade 1 till 12 thank fully, so that when we come across a hate preacher like you we actually know what we are talking about.

 

 

If all you want to do is rant about how extreme Islam is, and what scum bags/fanatics/terrorists all its followers are, and this all actually stems from the Quran, then their is nothing a muslim can do to convince you otherwise. You got a problem with REAL islam, go deal with it.

[tennisball]