Terrorists caught across Ottawa, London...one's a Doctor.

[sfinch]

AXEL: You are one of the greatest hatemongers on this website

 

Hitler's one comment on Islam is a tiny part of the article, and is minimally found in any of his speeches/books/articles. It is a one line comment - and may have been done to curry favour with the Mufti of Jerasuleum. Considering virtually all moslems were non-white - he was pretty distant from any real discourse with Islam.

 

Hitler was born a christian, and identified with the dominant religion of Germany - which was at least 98% nominally christian in 1930 (0.5% jewish). His primarily white christian colleagues mass murdered 6 million jews. When he mass murdered those jews and declared wars on everyone, Christianity was the dominant religion of his nation, and he had not destroyed christianity from within. He was able to do his crimes with willing Christians eagerly grabbing every man women and child of jewish descent and gassing them to death. That is the legacy of heavily christian germany in the 1940s - and to disagree to that is essentially hateful denial. Event he roman catholic church has come to accept their part in the holocaust.

 

Of note, to the young lady with a nutrition degree from Guelph going to school in Alberta...my great uncle lived in Taiwan in the 1980s/90s - though not born there. He actually did some business in South Africa in teh 1980s - and people with a Taiwanese identity were given 'honourary white' status. This was his first exposure to 'whites' and was amazed at how these white christians did not allow people of colour to associate with anyone, and how openly racist every white christian there was. People were flat out hateful, and resented the honourary white status many northeast asian businessmen were given (simply for business reasons). That was his only exposure to white people . If he judged all white people that way, his assessment is about as accurate as judging moslems from Saudi Arabia alone.

 

Hitler adopted the swastika from the aryan traditions associated with early hinduism, and had the largest collection of sanskrit writings in his nation's libraries. His closeness to the supposed original hindu aryans was much greater than anything with moslems.

 

Axel, you are a hatemonger of the highest order. A disgusting racist who brims with such hate against brown peoples of islamic descent, it is truely appalling. And i have no problem calling you out on it.

 

PS Axel - how did you like the fact that I easily proved you wrong on the basic statistics of the number of whites in the world. I was being extra liberal, and still could not come up with 1 billion whites. If there are more than 1 billion, please tell me where they live?

[axel]

lol,

 

personal attacks towards another member = check

twisting information and twisting what other members write = check

writing random statistics = check

 

yep, it's an sfinch post.

 

You make it seem like I said hitler was a muslim!? Actually I just made a cheeky remark on what tango_charlie wrote; he wrote hitler was interested in islam, I didn't even bring it up.

----------------------------------------------------

And how do YOU like that I proved you truly do make up stats. bwahahaaahahhahahahahahhahah..

 

SOURCED

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#Population_by_region

europe = 731mil

north america minus mexico (2005 census) = 414mil

australia = 22mil

russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia) = 145

 

TOTAL = 1.32 Billion

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups#Largest_religions_or_belief_systems_by_number_of_adherents

Islam = 1.1 - 1.2 Billion

 

Let's see what you wrote..

There are maybe 1.3 billion moslems in the world. That is 300 million more moslems than ALL THE WHITES in the world. In other words, ALOT of people.

 

If anything, there are maximally (from those stats) 200Million more white people.

Your comment:

PS Axel - how did you like the fact that I easily proved you wrong on the basic statistics of the number of whites in the world. I was being extra liberal, and still could not come up with 1 billion whites. If there are more than 1 billion, please tell me where they live?

 

lololoololl! I'm being extra liberal. I'm not even counting south africa and some other countries with significant white populations! hahahah..

And I can prove so many of your other absurd numbers wrong from past arguments....

People just trust some of the stuff you say because you've made a few rare strong intelligent comments.... along with a horde of not so intelligent comments lol.

---------------------------------------

You've made up stats before in your silly past arguments also.

I feel you're more interested in randomly jumping in and debunking people aggressively to show off to an online forum community.. rather than discussing issues honestly.

 

Eh, whatever, one day you'll realize how it gets you nowhere.

 

I'm not good at telling the future, but I predict sfinch will follow up with a post that has more sentences devoted to personally attacking a member rather than discussing the issue at hand! WOW..i'm good.

[sfinch]

lol,

 

personal attacks towards another member = check

twisting information and twisting what other members write = check

writing random statistics = check

 

yep, it's an sfinch post.

 

You make it seem like I said hitler was a muslim!? Actually I just made a cheeky remark on what tango_charlie wrote; he wrote hitler was interested in islam, I didn't even bring it up.

----------------------------------------------------

And how do YOU like that I proved you truly do make up stats. bwahahaaahahhahahahahahhahah..

 

SOURCED

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population#Population_by_region

europe = 731mil

north america minus mexico (2005 census) = 414mil

australia = 22mil

russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia) = 145

 

TOTAL = 1.32 Billion

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups#Largest_religions_or_belief_systems_by_number_of_adherents

Islam = 1.1 - 1.2 Billion

 

Let's see what you wrote..

 

 

If anything, there are maximally (from those stats) 200Million more white people.

Your comment:

 

 

lololoololl! I'm being extra liberal. I'm not even counting south africa and some other countries with significant white populations! hahahah..

And I can prove so many of your other absurd numbers wrong from past arguments....

People just trust some of the stuff you say because you've made a few rare strong intelligent comments.... along with a horde of not so intelligent comments lol.

---------------------------------------

You've made up stats before in your silly past arguments also.

I feel you're more interested in randomly jumping in and debunking people aggressively to show off to an online forum community.. rather than discussing issues honestly.

 

Eh, whatever, one day you'll realize how it gets you nowhere.

 

I'm not good at telling the future, but I predict sfinch will follow up with a post that has more sentences devoted to personally attacking a member rather than discussing the issue at hand! WOW..i'm good.

 

How about some basic assessment of these facts.

 

USA - 300 million. only 195 million whites (the rest, black, mestizo, asian, native, mixed) (the USA considers arabs, persians, turks, and others white - which is obviously not true in terms of most people's perceptions, as well as many self declared hispanic whites that are obviously not white - so i deleted those. the usa is only 65% non-hispanic white according to the us census). http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48000.html according to the US government, only 199.7 million whites (including arabs/persians/central asians, etc!!).

Canada - 33 million - only 26 million whites (the rest asian, blacks, natives, etc)

 

225 million whites in north america. white minorities in central american and mexico are relatively small - but even if 10-15% of the population, we have at most 250 million whites in north america

 

russia 142 million - true, BUT at least 15 million are non white/asiatic ethnicities. ever seen a kazakh? they basically look completely east asian At most 120 million whites...and most of those are in europe...see below:

 

the 'europe' population on wiki, INCLUDES european russia (where basically almost all the whites live and 80% of russia's population is anyways). And Europe includes huge arab, black, gypsy and asiatic minorities. Countries like France, UK, Netherlands, Sweden and Russia are at most 90% white. So we are talking around 675 million whites in europe at most (including european russia). And densly populated european turkey is non-white as well (few consider moslem turks whites).

 

Australia/NZ/SAfrica - about 26 million whites in total (18 in austriali, 3 in nz, 5 in S Africa).

 

So where are we. 675 + 250 + 26 + 926 million. South America has several areas where there are many pure whites (southern brazil, argentina), though what they define as white is usually considered mixed and non-white here. Most self declared whites have alot of native or black ancestry that is noticable. But I would liberally state 75-100 million pure whites in S America. There are some white russian minorities in several other old soviet states (most prominently kazakstan, where 6 million ukrainians/russians live), but the numbers are small.

There we go. 1 billion. Please check Canadian and US census if you do not believe me. 1.2 billion is a number that could be considered true if you actually believe 55% of brazil is white (laughable to virtualy anyone that visits) or argentina is 95% white or cuba is 70% white (once again, obviously not true - the demographics, while heavily italian/spanish in origin, look nothing like spain and italy).

 

On the very heavily moderated wiki page on islam demographics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

 

An estimated 1.57 billion moslems. More than I personally think - but well believed.

 

1.57 billion>1.2 billion>1.0 billion

 

There you go. The point of all this was that axel believe that this 1.57 billion population has some great consiparcy of massive violence. Yet they number they have killed in the last 100 years pales in comparsion to what a few white christian countries did a mere 70 years ago. I can't remember the last time a formal moslem goverment put white christians in concentration camps, but in bosnia, white christian serbs did it en masse to christian croats and moslem bosniaks - killing thousands of men, women and children as recently as the 1990s.

[Doctor_Strangelove]

Yo axel, just give it up man. When all the other muslims on the forum are preaching that their religion is peaceful and that they are peaceful, then I think I will listen to them rather than listen to whatever gibberish comes out of you. In the end, if they believe that their religion is peaceful and if they act peacefully, then where's the problem? You seriously have some issues to figure out, the same way you had a problem with people calling themselves Persian.

 

You're like the guy who says:

Man I'm not racist, I just don't like black people.

[ploughboy]

I guess Canada came out looking pretty good, but then we hardly played a role so who'd be surprised.

 

Dieppe. Juno Beach. Liberation of the Netherlands. Aerodrome of Democracy. Battle of the Atlantic. Devil's Brigade. Number 6 Group RCAF. Ortona.

 

Sorry, sore point.

 

/can't believe I'm replying to a seriously Godwin'd thread

[ploughboy]

it also does not mean that their actions are consistent with their religion's teachings, which relates back to the original subject of this thread.

 

Indeed. As a follower of one of the Abrahamic religions under discussion, I wish the more strident members of my faith would reflect on how Matt 7 15-23 plays out in their lives. But I'm funny that way.

 

Lord, forgive me for contributing to this Godwin'd disaster of a thread .

 

plough ("the religious right is neither") boy

[Wayward son]

It's quite clear hitler actually DESPISED christianity.

 

No, it is not clear at all and only your staggering bias towards christianity along with your hatred of islam could lead to someone that conclusion. Hitler criticized some priests and the church – not unlike a massive of number of Christians then and now. But the evidence to support Hitler despising Christianity is dubious at best.

 

As for wikipedia, they are generally good at ensuring that there is a source for a claim made. They are generally poor at ensuring that said source is any good, or that the claim made is an accurate representation of the information from the source.

 

For instance your last "quote":

 

"Hitler once stated, "We do not want any other god than Germany itself. It is essential to have fanatical faith and hope and love in and for Germany."[329]"

 

This is found in the book that is cited at the bottom of page 100. However when did Hitler make such a quote? Where did he make it? To whom? How did the author come across the quote? It certainly wasn't a public quote and there is zero chance that the author spoke to Hitler in private as they were staunch political opponents. It is not found anywhere before it appeared in the cited book. And you won't find the answers to any of the where, when, to whom, how questions in the book which is odd seeing as the author in question shows that he clearly knows how to reference and provide information for other quotes on the very same page. Which is why you don't see that quote reproduced in scholarly works because those authors are far more critical than wikipedia concerning mysterious quotes that can not be verified in any way, shape or form.

 

The two preceeding quotes you listed quoted nothing from Hitler himself, but the claims of others (none of whom were even named). Almost all of the anti-christian quotes from Hitler come from the French/English translations of Hitler’s Table Talk. According to Richard Carrier’s analysis (which unlike books was peer reviewed and published) of the original german compared to the translation those anti-christian quotes are bogus.

 

For instance the original german:

 

“I have never found pleasure in maltreating others, even if I know it isn't possible to maintain oneself in the world without force. Life is granted only to those who fight the hardest. It is the law of life: Defend yourself! The time in which we live has the appearance of the collapse of this idea. It can still take 100 or 200 years. I am sorry that, like Moses, I can only see the Promised Land from a distance.”

 

Whereas that was somehow translated to English in the only English edition as:

 

“I shall never come to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity. It will last another hundred years, two hundred years perhaps. My regret will have been that I couldn't, like whoever the prophet was, behold the promised land from afar.”

[axel]

On the very heavily moderated wiki page on islam demographics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

 

An estimated 1.57 billion moslems. More than I personally think - but well believed.

 

1.57 billion>1.2 billion>1.0 billion

 

There you go. The point of all this was that axel believe that this 1.57 billion population has some great consiparcy of massive violence.

 

You know what the problem is, it's that this is the FIRST TIME you've given correct statistics. The arguments you've done in the past have made 50 of these types of stats and they've all been wrong! The ridiculously long post you just made is the type of research you have to do to make the crazy statements you usually do and have done in the past 50 times.

 

In my defence, I gave as reliable numbers are one normally would expect.

Every stat of my mine was a sourced wiki number. The difference is you have a pew forum number frmo another wiki page and I had an older different sourced number from another wiki page.

I still don't exactly trust your numbers completely, the pew forum isn't super reliable, but muslims outnumber whites by probably a little bit.

 

The sad thing is, all this research proves nothing. Okay, there are say 5000, 10000 terrorists in 1.57 billion muslims, so most muslims are good? That's not correct, it's not true.

 

If you read back, my discussion was on how the QURAN is rooted to make people anti-semetic, a bit sexist, aggressive, incompatible to co-existence..etc.

 

You just twist everything and go to talking about nazis and numbers of muslims opposed to terrorists and god knows what..

 

The problem is sfinch's arguments get you nowhere. They come at random periods during arguments with random statistics and are filled with aggressive off-topic comments. It's like you argue to glorify yourself, never to discuss anything in a civil manner.

[bpp]

I'm not sure where you saw me say that I felt the strange religious beliefs that Nazis tended toward was the source for their actions, but wherever it was I clearly misspoke, as that isn't the case at all and I can scarcely imagine what must have overtaken me when I explicitly stated that the Nazis did what they did because of their religious beliefs.

 

As for the strength of Catholicism within the ranks of the SS, I can't recall which book I read it in and a quick Google search isn't turning up anything decisive, so I'll accept that it's open to question for the time being.

 

i must have read someone elses post(other than the one i quoted) and attributed it to you. no one explicitly said religion was a major motivation, butthere seems to be a lot of emphasis placed on the religion of the nazis in this thread.

[sfinch]

You know what the problem is, it's that this is the FIRST TIME you've given correct statistics. The arguments you've done in the past have made 50 of these types of stats and they've all been wrong! The ridiculously long post you just made is the type of research you have to do to make the crazy statements you usually do and have done in the past 50 times.

 

In my defence, I gave as reliable numbers are one normally would expect.

Every stat of my mine was a sourced wiki number. The difference is you have a pew forum number frmo another wiki page and I had an older different sourced number from another wiki page.

I still don't exactly trust your numbers completely, the pew forum isn't super reliable, but muslims outnumber whites by probably a little bit.

 

The sad thing is, all this research proves nothing. Okay, there are say 5000, 10000 terrorists in 1.57 billion muslims, so most muslims are good? That's not correct, it's not true.

 

If you read back, my discussion was on how the QURAN is rooted to make people anti-semetic, a bit sexist, aggressive, incompatible to co-existence..etc.

 

You just twist everything and go to talking about nazis and numbers of muslims opposed to terrorists and god knows what..

 

The problem is sfinch's arguments get you nowhere. They come at random periods during arguments with random statistics and are filled with aggressive off-topic comments. It's like you argue to glorify yourself, never to discuss anything in a civil manner.

 

My statistics/numbers have all been in the same ballpark and consistent. Because you accused me of pulling numbers out of my arse, I had to give you some references. Even my personal estimate of the number of moslems is lower than the one I have referenced out!

 

I think Islam has theological problems, and I think many of it's followers are living in an older age of thinking. Critical analysis in not favoured among moslems, and that is why I am a christian and think my religion is better. A lot of bright moslem kids are forced to conform, and lose their wonderful creativity. They respond unfavourably and irrationally to criticisms because they are generaly taught not to question their faith.

 

However, Islam is attacked as this religion where all of its followers are prone to violence. Yet history shows that other religions have been just as bad, and in fact often worse. In Islamic dominated nations in the middle ages, most minorities actually thrived. Jews were often the physicians and economic advisors of the rulers in much of the Islamic world up until the early 20th century, and were generally well off. Large successful christian minorities survived in the Levant and Egypt. While many low caste hindus were converted in India, there was no mass killings/holocaust of the hindus when the moslems ruled. At that time, white christians engaged in massive slavery, and the destruction or enslavement of whole races and peoples on a massive scale, and engaged in 2 world wars killing in excess of 45 million human beings.

 

Most terrorism cases reported in the WEST involve moslems, but in Sri Lanka, most cases are hindus killing bhuddists, often with suicide bombs. In eastern India is the worst terrorism in modern india...and neither the victims nor perpetuators are moslem. But these stories do not interest Fox news, so are never reported here.

 

100,000 terrorists among 1.57 BILLION people is miniscule. You are much more likely to be murdered by some gangbanging thug in Toronto than die in a terrorist attack by moslems. People seem to somehow forget that.

[Doctor_Strangelove]

It's sort of obvious that most terrorist attacks in CHRISTIAN countries (that are somewhat involved in the war on terror or whatnot) will be committed by islamists. So to make the argument: "WELL ALL I SEE ON TV IS MUXLIMZ KILLING FOLKS IN MY COUNTRRY" is pretty stupid. It wouldn't make much sense for a christian to attack the U.S. in the name of the bible (the same would go for jews, as the U.S. is a kind supporter of israel).

 

I'm not trying to justify their acts, I'm just saying that the terrorist population sample in the countries where attacks happen isn't a randomized sample, it has selective bias.

[mdDave]

you guys can argue here all you want but the fact of the matter is that there is a growing problem with Islam and muslims. In Europe there is a rise of hardcore anti-immigration parties (such as Geert Wilders party) even in the most liberal countries. We can all put our heads in the sand and say we need to get along and Canada is tolerant and all that or we can face the truth. This is something that is more relevant in Europe right now due to larger number of muslims and what seems to be poorer assimilation than in Canada/USA.

What we see is rise of antisemitism, rise in homophobia, rise in crime, rise in religious intolerance.

Some cultures are indeed BETTER than others.

And to those people who dismiss all this terrorist news saying that only a tiny minority of muslims have extreme views, why don't you prove it's just a minority... do some research, check out some polls and so on.

[mdDave]

It's sort of obvious that most terrorist attacks in CHRISTIAN countries (that are somewhat involved in the war on terror or whatnot) will be committed by islamists. So to make the argument: "WELL ALL I SEE ON TV IS MUXLIMZ KILLING FOLKS IN MY COUNTRRY" is pretty stupid. It wouldn't make much sense for a christian to attack the U.S. in the name of the bible (the same would go for jews, as the U.S. is a kind supporter of israel).

 

I'm not trying to justify their acts, I'm just saying that the terrorist population sample in the countries where attacks happen isn't a randomized sample, it has selective bias.

 

except in pakistan it's still muslims killing Christians or even other muslims

[medguy5367]

Critical analysis in not favoured among moslems, and that is why I am a christian and think my religion is better.

 

...They respond unfavourably and irrationally to criticisms because they are generaly taught not to question their faith.

 

Oh, the irony...

[axel]

My statistics/numbers have all been in the same ballpark and consistent. Because you accused me of pulling numbers out of my arse, I had to give you some references. Even my personal estimate of the number of moslems is lower than the one I have referenced out!

 

I think Islam has theological problems, and I think many of it's followers are living in an older age of thinking. Critical analysis in not favoured among moslems, and that is why I am a christian and think my religion is better. A lot of bright moslem kids are forced to conform, and lose their wonderful creativity. They respond unfavourably and irrationally to criticisms because they are generaly taught not to question their faith.

 

However, Islam is attacked as this religion where all of its followers are prone to violence. Yet history shows that other religions have been just as bad, and in fact often worse. In Islamic dominated nations in the middle ages, most minorities actually thrived. Jews were often the physicians and economic advisors of the rulers in much of the Islamic world up until the early 20th century, and were generally well off. Large successful christian minorities survived in the Levant and Egypt. While many low caste hindus were converted in India, there was no mass killings/holocaust of the hindus when the moslems ruled. At that time, white christians engaged in massive slavery, and the destruction or enslavement of whole races and peoples on a massive scale, and engaged in 2 world wars killing in excess of 45 million human beings.

 

Most terrorism cases reported in the WEST involve moslems, but in Sri Lanka, most cases are hindus killing bhuddists, often with suicide bombs. In eastern India is the worst terrorism in modern india...and neither the victims nor perpetuators are moslem. But these stories do not interest Fox news, so are never reported here.

 

100,000 terrorists among 1.57 BILLION people is miniscule. You are much more likely to be murdered by some gangbanging thug in Toronto than die in a terrorist attack by moslems. People seem to somehow forget that.

 

I agree with basically everything in this post.

 

However, 100,000 terrorists among 1.57 billion muslims is huge compared to x terrorists among 2.2 billion christians. Not a good example.

 

Also, muslims killed many many persians (they were zoroastrian) and indians (hindus) and also forcefully converted them.. muslim terrorism continues in india on a grand-scale..

 

Also, the case in sri lanka is not about religion. I read up on it because those sri lankans landed in Vancouver. It's about the ethnic Tamils being discriminated by the dominant sinhalese ethnicity in Sri lanka.

[sfinch]

Integration is a problem in Europe, no doubt. But the crime rates among moslems, boasted as being so high, are in fact lower than the murder rates/ crime rates among native in Canada, blacks in the USA, abos in Australia, and maori in NZ. In other words, poorer people tend to commit more crime when minorities among a well off people. It is not exclusive to moslems.

 

We so often hear about honor killings. With one exception of a pakistani girl in Mississauga recently, and a few among Afghan refugees in the Ottawa/Montreal area - these are very rare in Canada. Aside from those cases, I can't think of a single one. There were a couple in BC when I lived there with sikhs doing the honor killings. But these are rare - and 3-4 cases among 700 thousand people does not an epidemic make.

 

Heck, check out your med school class. Among the moslems, i bet more than half are females. Ditto with law schools, pharmacy, engineering. It's not like their being held back in their homes not allowed to work or go to school.

 

Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Turkey (the largest, 2nd largest, 3rd largest, and 5th largest moslem majority countries in the world) have all democratically elected female leaders.

 

The five largest white majority countries?

USA, Russia, Germany, France, Italy - only Germany has, and that was only recently and after all those moslem countries had done so (though the UK which has a similar population to france and italy, has as well).

 

Canada has not elected one - Kim Campbell had to basically be selected. Ditto with Australia.

 

The world is not as black and white as some of you terror mongers have it. Europe was foolish in letting in tons of third world people into their nations with few skills to do low end jobs - they created a near permanent underclass that eventually rebels against their 'low' status.

[axel]

Integration is a problem in Europe, no doubt. But the crime rates among moslems, boasted as being so high, are in fact lower than the murder rates/ crime rates among native in Canada, blacks in the USA, abos in Australia, and maori in NZ. In other words, poorer people tend to commit more crime when minorities among a well off people. It is not exclusive to moslems.

 

We so often hear about honor killings. With one exception of a pakistani girl in Mississauga recently, and a few among Afghan refugees in the Ottawa/Montreal area - these are very rare in Canada. Aside from those cases, I can't think of a single one. There were a couple in BC when I lived there with sikhs doing the honor killings. But these are rare - and 3-4 cases among 700 thousand people does not an epidemic make.

 

Heck, check out your med school class. Among the moslems, i bet more than half are females. Ditto with law schools, pharmacy, engineering. It's not like their being held back in their homes not allowed to work or go to school.

 

Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Turkey (the largest, 2nd largest, 3rd largest, and 5th largest moslem majority countries in the world) have all democratically elected female leaders.

 

The five largest white majority countries?

USA, Russia, Germany, France, Italy - only Germany has, and that was only recently and after all those moslem countries had done so (though the UK which has a similar population to france and italy, has as well).

 

Canada has not elected one - Kim Campbell had to basically be selected. Ditto with Australia.

 

The world is not as black and white as some of you terror mongers have it. Europe was foolish in letting in tons of third world people into their nations with few skills to do low end jobs - they created a near permanent underclass that eventually rebels against their 'low' status.

 

sfinch, you are bent upon just defending your statement and stance. You have no interest in reception to the facts and discussing the truth.

 

Read my past posts, read caylynn, read even few of TC's posts, read the post above yours:

 

you guys can argue here all you want but the fact of the matter is that there is a growing problem with Islam and muslims. In Europe there is a rise of hardcore anti-immigration parties (such as Geert Wilders party) even in the most liberal countries. We can all put our heads in the sand and say we need to get along and Canada is tolerant and all that or we can face the truth. This is something that is more relevant in Europe right now due to larger number of muslims and what seems to be poorer assimilation than in Canada/USA.

What we see is rise of antisemitism, rise in homophobia, rise in crime, rise in religious intolerance.

Some cultures are indeed BETTER than others.

And to those people who dismiss all this terrorist news saying that only a tiny minority of muslims have extreme views, why don't you prove it's just a minority... do some research, check out some polls and so on.

[Chaplin]

except in pakistan it's still muslims killing Christians or even other muslims

 

Whats happening in pakistan is quite inrrelevant to what this thread talks about and even there, where the crime rate is so high, there isnt hate crime against christians. If you know of any mass murder of christians, or recurring hate crimes on daily bases, please mention that news?

 

sfinch, you are bent upon just defending your statement and stance. You have no interest in reception to the facts and discussing the truth.

 

This comes from a douchebag who spent this entire thread begging people to believe the Quran is a guide for religious serial killing.

[Doctor_Strangelove]

you guys can argue here all you want but the fact of the matter is that there is a growing problem with Islam and muslims. In Europe there is a rise of hardcore anti-immigration parties (such as Geert Wilders party) even in the most liberal countries. We can all put our heads in the sand and say we need to get along and Canada is tolerant and all that or we can face the truth. This is something that is more relevant in Europe right now due to larger number of muslims and what seems to be poorer assimilation than in Canada/USA.

What we see is rise of antisemitism, rise in homophobia, rise in crime, rise in religious intolerance.

Some cultures are indeed BETTER than others.

And to those people who dismiss all this terrorist news saying that only a tiny minority of muslims have extreme views, why don't you prove it's just a minority... do some research, check out some polls and so on.

 

Hey the religion doesn't change, its the people that change. I'm not denying there's more nutjob islamists in the world, actually there probably are more numerous nowadays than before 9/11. My problem is with people that say it all stems from the religion itself, which is totally untrue. The koran says the same stuff as the bible plus or minus a few things, in different words. The essence of the three big religions stays the same. No less violent, no more violent.

[sfinch]

I find this whole hatred thing against moslems such a funny thing. Axel, mddave and others have bought into this fear mongering. But here are some basic facts:

 

1. Moslems are not invading European lands. They are there mostly legally because those countries have immigration laws that let them in. In most of those countries, if you do not follow the customs or speak the language, it is hard to progress; of course these new migrants do not - and presto, new underclass. They probably should not have been let in en masse, but they did.

 

2. Moslems are not the most always crime prone peoples in these lands. Most subsaharan blacks in France are NOT moslem (though many are), and those big France riots, despite the west describing them as arab moslem, were mostly done by them (majority non moslem). Several newspapers noted this after US networks seemed to call all the rioters moslem. Gypsies were deported en masse from France recently for some horrible crimes - they are virtually all christians from Romania/Bulgaria. Polish crime is the bane of many in London England these days (read any board about immigration in England from the last few years).

 

3. Overall european murder/rape rates are still quite low - even in moslem dominated areas like Rotterdam and Amsterdam. There is disproportionate crime among them, but that is no different than most minorities with little education compared to the average.

 

4. There is variation among moslem groups. Belgians talk about turkish civility but maroccan savagery.

 

5. Terror: There are white christian dominated forces that have invaded and killed thousands of civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq - neither nation formally attacked or invaded any christian lands (poorly led Afghanistan did seem to harbour some non-afghan terrorists, but they would not have had the ability to stop them even if they tried - and of course the 9/11 terrorists lived openly in white nations that i suppose also 'harbored them', albeit unknowingly). Somehow, that is not considered terror. Having foreigners kill your family members with airplanes is not better than some crazy pscyho setting off a pipe bomb in the UK - they are both just as bad. It's just the mass death of a bunch of non-whites moslems with some white christian pilot is sanitized.

 

Alot of the talk in Europe stems from losing their nations to outsiders. This talk was similar to the 1930s when millions of jews lived in Europe and were seemed to have economic dominance. Like mdDave, they would say 'don't keep your head in the sand, these jews really own everything and are dispossessing our people, look at the stats'. Of course those exaggerations led to discrimination and led to the holocaust.

 

Axel would be justified in his beliefs to some degree if he didn't believe in meddling. But this guy hates moslems in our nations, and also hates them in their own nations. Clearly he only has one real solution in mind - it starts with G, ends in E, and ryhmes with slide (even if he does not admit it).

 

Anyways, most moslems i have met have been super nice and very peaceful. Certainly the ones here at UWO. Axel may hate them - but any person of any color/religion that is a decent human being, I will like. And that is to me common decency.

 

PS... many 'moslems' are complete agnostis/atheists but have moslem names and still get discriminated against because people presume they are religious. It reminds me of when that scigirl101 who goes to mac slandered moslems and her ex - and he basically had to say he was an atheist and did not consider himself moslem - he just had a moslem name.

[axel]

Axel would be justified in his beliefs to some degree if he didn't believe in meddling. But this guy hates moslems in our nations, and also hates them in their own nations. Clearly he only has one real solution in mind - it starts with G, ends in E, and ryhmes with slide (even if he does not admit it).

 

Anyways, most moslems i have met have been super nice and very peaceful. Certainly the ones here at UWO. Axel may hate them - but any person of any color/religion that is a decent human being, I will like. And that is to me common decency.

 

sfinch, this is now lunacy. I oppose the theology of Islam and therefore I'm akin to a fascist serial killer?

You're also accusing me of hating muslims at UWO that I've never met.

 

Good stuff bud. Keep it up. At least the rational members here will now know how neutral and credible you really are.

[sfinch]

Axel has stated that Islam invokes hatred and violence among it's practioners.

A TINY percentage of moslems seem to have actually been incited - and in many cases it was in their home countries against foreign troops (not really terrorism in my opinion for an iraqi to kill an occupying troop in Iraq).

 

His statement obviously paints a brush of hatred and suspicion against all moslems.

 

It's like someone stating 'jews are often money grubbing people' and pointing out some cases - and then stating that he didn't mean to actually attack regular jews.

 

Axel is a modern day racist - that is pretty obvious to all.

 

And one last thing - obviously you did not state you wanted to kill all moslems. But you don't want them here, and you don't like them 'there' either. What is your solution? Obviously something that gets rid of them. That is the only way people like you would be satisfied. Moslems could do everything to try to placate you, and it would never be enough for you to stop preaching more hatred.

[medguy5367]

Aren't these quotes from the Quran?

 

 

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

 

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

 

Sura72:15 “The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.”

 

"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush." (Sura 9:5)

 

2:216 “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not."

 

“I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.” (Qur'an 8:12)

 

“Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are ruthless to the Unbelievers, but merciful to each other.” (Qur'an 48:29)

 

"But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads, Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."(22:19-22)

 

"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah… (8:39)"

 

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty." (9:123)

 

 

And I wonder if these are ALL taken "out of context"...

 

Also, let's not forget that the "Prophet" Muhammad had sexual intercourse with a nine-year-old child.

[sfinch]

Ahh medguy...have you not read the old testament. Or parcels of the talmud. There are plenty of blood curdling pieces of hatred in both holy scriptures. The talmud is considered so extreme, you cannot get a hold of it in english translation except at large judaica stores or major university libraries mainly because large jewish groups feel that out of context it may feed into hateful anti-semitism.

 

Viscious hateful things are in most religions. In my opinion Islam is no different, but not more extreme either.

 

The bible has TONS of pieces saying one should kill whole villages where there is single non-believer. Yes, it is in the bible. Most christians just ignore it.

 

Medguy...go read the old testament again...and not just the pieces your pastor tells you.

[medguy5367]

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