future_doc Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Absolutely unacceptable/rude language and inappropriate. Moreover, this does not describe Doc_Ma in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpp Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 And it is expected that 20% of the physicians, being over 60, will retire in the next 10 years. and the population as a whole is aging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatonekid Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Everyone's entitled to have their own opinion based on the article being discussed. You can choose to disagree with someone else in a respectable fashion. However, personal attacks on other members will not be tolerated. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooty Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Please cool it down people. Try to maintain a decent level of respect for each other's opinions. If the thread degenerates further, it'll be closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheech10 Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 It unsettles me that the importance of financial matters is downplayed by aspiring applicants to med school. Although our profession is by nature altruistic, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't expect a good income and job security. The truth is that major urban centres (not just Toronto/Vancouver, but most of Southern Ontario) are almost saturated with specialists, and well supplied with family doctors. Many of those entering med school and even residency now will find it difficult to find a position in an urban setting; even smaller cities like London, Kingston, Kitchener, Barrie, Peterborough are filling up. Current trainees need to be aware of this, and it will only get worse in coming years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ace of Spades Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 As taboo as it is to talk about going into medicine for the money, if doctors weren't paid what they were, I expect that the competition would not be as severe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC_Ma Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 seriously?! this is what u complain about? hopefully, med students like u go into something like pathology Hmm I think others have said enough but here's what I would like to point out. Very very simple scenario. Imagine u interviewed and got a job (any job) then next thing is to discuss the pay and benefits. Would you tell the company to pay you whatever because you don't care? Also caring about money is not the same as being a bad doc and please don't insult pathology. Btw the highest paying specialty in Ontario is optho and I have no intention of going into that one in fact I want family which is arguably the worst paid. I remember when I had dinner with dean white side and some other doctors last month the topic that showed up the most was doctors pay. And they brought up the topic not us students. One doctor said there's ups and downs in medicine. She loves her job but on some crappy days the fat cheque helps her go through the day. Lastly I suggest you read some medical ethics check out what altruism means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj89 Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Everyone is panicking for no reason. We all know that medicine brings m0n3y and 817CH3$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medguy5367 Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 It is absolutely shameful to go into medicine for money. A doctor should not even be thinking about $$$ or salary, his duty is to serve his patients altruistically. Anyone who thinks about money should and must be prevented from entering health care. I suggest that we limit MD salaries to $50,000 so that the truly passionate people can get into medicine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hking03 Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 It is absolutely shameful to go into medicine for money. A doctor should not even be thinking about $$$ or salary, his duty is to serve his patients altruistically. Anyone who thinks about money should and must be prevented from entering health care. I suggest that we limit MD salaries to $50,000 so that the truly passionate people can get into medicine! seriously? or are you joking? i can't tell... i hope you're joking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Cloak Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 seriously?! this is what u complain about? hopefully, med students like u go into something like pathology Pathologists are in the middle of the pack in terms of earning power (not the top), and require above average social intelligence, given their role as both the "doctor's doctor" and head of a diverse flock of technologists, support staff and students. What's your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Cloak Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 why? The article said in 10 years, 20% of the force will be retiring. That's right about the time you'll be finished (assuming you get it now ) Yeah, that's what he said, but he's wrong. "Twenty per cent of our physician workforce is going to probably leaving practice within the next five to 10 years," Boulay said. In 2009, the average age of a physician in Canada was 49.7 years, although one in five practising doctors is still 60 or older, the analysis showed. However . . . Research exploring physician retirement patterns suggests that physicians do not tend to retire at age 65 and that many continue to work into their 70s and 80s. Over the last 30 years in Canada, the average age of self-reported retirement of physicians has been increasing, from 67.8 in the 1980s to 69.2 in the 2000s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted December 3, 2010 Report Share Posted December 3, 2010 Pathologists are in the middle of the pack in terms of earning power (not the top), and require above average social intelligence, given their role as both the "doctor's doctor" and head of a diverse flock of technologists, support staff and students. What's your point? Pathologists and Radiologists seem that the wrong stereotype of being non-social freaks. Hasn't been true at all in my experience so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechanics Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 It is absolutely shameful to go into medicine for money. A doctor should not even be thinking about $$$ or salary, his duty is to serve his patients altruistically. Anyone who thinks about money should and must be prevented from entering health care. I suggest that we limit MD salaries to $50,000 so that the truly passionate people can get into medicine! Lol To be honest, I don't think it should matter why a doctor pursued medicine so long as they are competent. Of course, the played out scenario of a patient saying "I wouldn't want a doctor who went into this profession for the money". Yet other professionals are not given the same cliche like: "I wouldn't want my cars and houses designed by engineers who were only in it for the money" or "I wouldn't want a lawyer representing me if they were only doing it for the money". So long as they get job done, who cares what their motives are? Srsly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooty Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 It is absolutely shameful to go into medicine for money. A doctor should not even be thinking about $$$ or salary, his duty is to serve his patients altruistically. Anyone who thinks about money should and must be prevented from entering health care. I suggest that we limit MD salaries to $50,000 so that the truly passionate people can get into medicine! I whole-heartedly agree!!!! This man knows the shiattt! A distinction needs to be made here between those that do medicine solely for the money and those that do medicine because they would love it and care about a comfortable lifestyle. The vast majority belong to the latter category, I would say. I'm one of those people who don't believe true altruism exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 Saints are in heaven, not on earth. Very few doctors can be considered even close to the saint category. tooty and Wanderer make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj89 Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 A distinction needs to be made here between those that do medicine solely for the money and those that do medicine because they would love it and care about a comfortable lifestyle. The vast majority belong to the latter category, I would say. I'm one of those people who don't believe true altruism exists. True that. I'll be honest and say that if the job paid 50,000, i'd hit the road... not because im greedy, but because of the time, personal sacrifice, and rigorous training required for the career. It just wouldnt be worth it. If i still really wanted to help people that badly, i'd become a teacher, clinical psychologist, music therapist, or any other profession that helps people on a daily basis. Above all these, medicine is different because it lets you apply a specialization of knowledge to people's healthcare, something that is extremely important in anyone's life. You have power, not in a prestigious sense, but power to use your knowledge to solve complex and challenging problems on a daily basis which can bring immense satisfaction. And you get paid big bucks to do it. Like I said, its not like doctors are undeserving of high pay given the credentials required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nosuperman Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 People who are aiming for medicine base solely on money are deluding themselves. Let's be honest, there are many other jobs that require far less training that pay decently and, in the long run, matches up to a family physician's average salary. But I've yet to meet anyone aiming for med or in med solely for the money. Yep. Considering the cost of insurance, overhead, student loans, time spent in school, not making close to the full salary until your 30's+ and all of the hard work and insanity on the way. If you're in it for the money you're not stupid (thus probably removing yourself from the competitive pool from the get-go) but you're delusional and you're going to burn out hard. Swinging back to the topic however - This is good news, yes?! We want adequate coverage for the people we're here to help and the possibility for vacations and sub 80 hour work weeks right? It'll be interesting to see what happens to our ever-ailing health system in 10-20 years anyhow. The number of docs is a small part of what will be the environment that us current premeds will come into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatechem Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 all hell has broken loose after my initial post so let me clarify: the initial comment to me seemed to ooze of self-centered greediness so that's why i called it out - in response to an article about there being increased # of doctors (shouldn't this be a freaking GOOD THING?!), the response was this means we'll all get paid less "<sigh>". doc_ma, if my interpretation of ur comment was wrong and that offended u, my bad, but i just felt it had to be said. 2) i didn't mean any disrespect to pathologists - my point was that if ur going to go into med for the money and not give a rat's behind about taking care of patients, family med's probably not the career for u. i didn't mean that pathologists don't have an important role, but they're not taking histories every day either. 3) i didn't say that doctors shouldn't get paid and i never made the point that all docs should be capped at $50,000 or should make the same as wal-mart greeters. however, i don't think it would hurt if salaries are brought down a notch - it all depends on what u think is fair compensation for your work and personally, i don't believe seven-figure salaries are justified for the work that even the most highly trained and skilled MDs do. of course that's my opinion and ur free to disagree. finally - let's say hypothetically that MD's were capped to making 150 grand a year - that's more than enough money to get by but not enough to buy u that bentley. honestly, how many members do u think this forum would have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgt.pepper Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 Well, I don't think anyone who aims for medicine wants to simply "get by". I've been "getting by" for the past four years now and I'll be just "getting by" for the next four years (hopefully) on mac and cheese. Sometimes, I just want to wipe my ass with some Robert Bordens. As much as people would like to deny it, money does play a factor eventually. +++ whats wrong with being paid for all the hard work and sacrifice we all do. If you want to cap at 400,000 then a better arguement can be made for that. But then CEOs, bankers and everyone else should be capped and not allowed to make millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC_Ma Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 It is absolutely shameful to go into medicine for money. A doctor should not even be thinking about $$$ or salary, his duty is to serve his patients altruistically. Anyone who thinks about money should and must be prevented from entering health care. I suggest that we limit MD salaries to $50,000 so that the truly passionate people can get into medicine! Again learn what altruism is really all about in medicine. No body said altruism in medicine = living like a dog getting paid like a slave and have to pretend to be happy about it and provide great service. Doctors shouldn't be slaves considering the number of years of training and what the job entails. Truly passionate about medicine? You are more than welcome to not bill the government and do volunteer work for the part exceeding the 50k. So you can sorta create a self made cap at 50k. For that I ll respect you. My point is medicine includes $ and why do some people try to separate the 2 things? It's not like medicine=volunteer work. Who doesn't care about money to some degree? If you can get paid more for anything you do why the hell on earth would you ask for less? Can we be more realistic here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest copacetic Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 this thread is getting off topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 So what else is new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylamonkey Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 People who are aiming for medicine base solely on money are deluding themselves. Let's be honest, there are many other jobs that require far less training that pay decently and, in the long run, matches up to a family physician's average salary. But I've yet to meet anyone aiming for med or in med solely for the money. That's true, and there are certainly jobs that easily pay more than any physician will ever net. My particular degree combination could net me 6-figures right now if I wanted to, and I just have undergrads. Hm. Solely for money? I've only met one high-school student who I would consider to be that way. I seem to know a few undergrads who are in it for money and chicks, but that's another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourning Cloak Posted December 4, 2010 Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 2) i didn't mean any disrespect to pathologists - my point was that if ur going to go into med for the money and not give a rat's behind about taking care of patients, family med's probably not the career for u. i didn't mean that pathologists don't have an important role, but they're not taking histories every day either. If you aren't committed to taking care of patients, then you can do a hell of a lot of damage as a physician. But no more keenly are these mistakes felt than in the very specialty you deigned (and radiology, nuc med, radiation oncology). If a pathologist or radiologist makes a misdiagnosis, everything that every doctor does subsequently (surgeons, anesthesiologists, internists) may be more harm than benefit simply because the initial diagnosis was wrong. Personally, I'd rather someone screw up taking my history than calculating my radiation dose. In general, overall dedication to quality and excellence in medicine is typified by imaging/lab/nuc MDs. There are physicians who don't give a rat's ass, it's true, but they don't end up in these specialties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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