Rumor/Speculation: UWO second degree policy modification

[SheriffLobo]

Does anyone have any concrete info on this? I just started my second degree with the intent of trying to apply to Western after first year and gun for an interview, or if I'm really lucky, a conditional acceptance.

 

If anyone could just clarify what the rumored changes might be, or if tooty could perhaps make a note on the second degree policies, I think it might help to keep any rumors in check and/or clarify them.

 

I plan on emailing UWO anyway to make sure I'm on the right track with regards to courses next year, and I'll let you guys know if they say anything regarding the second degree policy they have currently.

[Guest nwoforlife2011]

I've heard it may have something to do with the senior level courses requirement. A lot of people have been confused as to what courses they are allowed to take and whether they have to be third/fourth year courses. Considering many people have to take certain first year courses to satisfy their degree requirements, they might be adjusting their policy with regards to the "3.0/5.0 senior level courses" requirement. Don't have any concrete evidence on this but that's what a couple people have said. I've also emailed Western, so I'll post my reply when it does come in.

[kylamonkey]

I emailed western about a month ago and heard nothing back so far. IF they require 3/5 senior level courses in a second degree program, it's just about impossible to do that in a second degree unless you already have a bunch of the 1st yr courses you would need.

 

I think I'll call them, but it's 5pm there now so I'l call tomorrow.

[SheriffLobo]

Thanks for the info guys. That helps me ease some of my worries. I can see how it is difficult to follow the 3/5 rule. I myself had to enroll in 1 full credit of first year courses, and that was after much bargaining with my department. I had to further bargain with profs to let me into their second year courses, and they seemed much more willing to let me in after I explained my situation and Western's requirement.

 

I'll email them tomorrow, though it doesn't seem like I'll get a response anytime soon. That being said, might as well try. Maybe if there are enough inquiries into the issue they're bound to answer someone.

[md16]

I emailed Western a while back as well and havent heard back. I did call them around mid-August, and the lady that answered said they were getting lots of calls with questions regarding senior level courses for a second degree. She said they are still working on it and the decision should be made soon.

[Angelia]

Yeah I agree that the 3/5 rule is pretty ridiculous, because in order to get my degree, I took 21 credits and had no electives....I had no choice in what level of courses I took....you take the ones required for the degree....

 

Western currently has this posted:

 

 

Applicants who embark on a second undergraduate degree program are allowed to apply only during the final year of their new program. In order to be considered for GPA purposes, the second degree must be an honors degree or equivalent. In this situation, GPA consideration will be based only on the two best years of the second degree program. Applicants who are given a conditional offer must complete all program requirements for the second degree prior to registration in the MD program. Students who complete a second undergraduate degree within one year of full-time studies must register in five full or equivalent courses. In this situation, at least three of the five courses must be at the third- or fourth-year level, and first- and second-year courses that do not require a first-year prerequisite may be included within the five full courses only if absolutely mandatory for the second honors degree program.

 

So it sounds like the 3/5 rule might only be for 1 year second degree programs and not 2 or more?

[simpy]

I emailed western about a month ago and heard nothing back so far. IF they require 3/5 senior level courses in a second degree program, it's just about impossible to do that in a second degree unless you already have a bunch of the 1st yr courses you would need.

 

I think I'll call them, but it's 5pm there now so I'l call tomorrow.

 

For the record, when I e-mailed them much earlier this year (~February), they said that they would consider second year courses to be "senior level" for the purposes of second undergrads. Not that it totally solves the problem but should at least help a lot of people.

[Etude]

I still did not get the answer from UWO. My Email response from UWO was not differ from the answers you got. UWO representative who told me that there will be changes in 2nd undergrad policy still did not give me responses back.

[DeeKay]

 

So it sounds like the 3/5 rule might only be for 1 year second degree programs and not 2 or more?

 

You're interpretation is correct. I believe that if you took let's say socio as your first degree and your second degree is health studies or humanities. You should be able to do two years of 3/4 level courses. If however you go from an arts to science or science to business. Then you need the first year req in order to fulfill the degree req cause you can't know 4th year science knowledge without first year.

 

IMO. I love Western. They Rock.

[Real Beef]

 

IMO. I love Western. They Rock.

 

LOL ... that's a fanboy statement if I ever heard one. You must be straight out of frosh week after all the brainwashing Im just playfully teasing of course and am not trying to start anything, just thought it funny ....

 

Beef

[kylamonkey]

Listen- this is pure speculation from my end, but I have a feeling they will not be accepting 1-yr or possibly even 2-yr second degrees. They have a pretty strict policy about "special years" and a 1-yr second degree doesn't really fit with that policy, since in essence that's what it is.

 

I'm playing it conservative, personally. I've planned on a 3-yr second degree, and if I get in before that, great. That's what traditionally gets people accepted, from what I see in this forum, and what's more, it fits with how the other schools who look at second degrees (NOSM, McGill, and Sask) are requiring.

 

My goal, if you read my navel-gazing thread about my own degree program, is about maximizing my chance at EVERY school in Canada. I've learned from experience that you can't put all your eggs in one basket as a non-trad and have success. It just doesn't work that way. UWo is nice, but as you can see, ANY school can change their criteria at the push of a button (take a look at UBC's 10-year rule if you don't believe me).

 

p.s. I didn't call UWO today- oops!

[SheriffLobo]

I would have to agree with you kyla on how to apply as a non trad. Hell, Western's conditional acceptance using the first of two years rule was only made known to me recently. I myself am planning a two year degree, though I may stretch it to 3 years if something changes drastically. While I certainly am prepared for the worst, I can't help but hope that nothing drastic changes, at least nothing as drastic as UBC abandoning it's 10 year rule.

 

And if they do make something as drastic as UBC's change, I hope it happens at some future date, so that people who have already started don't get screwed. I saw it happen with a lot of members here with UBC, I'd hate to see it again. Then again, that's the nature of the beast I suppose

 

 

EDIT: You mentioned the second degree essentially being a single year, I suppose you are referring to the conditional acceptance? As per my understanding, you still have to finish the second year with a gpa that would satisfy admissions in order to actually be admitted. EDITx2: nvm. I just re-read Angelina's comment.

[nwo4life2011]

So I talked to someone at Western today and they told me that you can take first year courses if they are required for your program. Also the 3/5 rule allows you to take 2nd year and above courses. As for the second degree policies changing, they couldn't give me any concrete information about the changes. They did mention that it is possible that applicants may be required to complete the degree before they are admitted, although I thought that was a requirement before anyways. I didn't hear anything about them not accepting 2 year degrees although it is a possibility they may require 3 years.

[abyss]

So it sounds like the 3/5 rule might only be for 1 year second degree programs and not 2 or more?

 

What are some examples of 2 year second degree programs?

[simpy]

What are some examples of 2 year second degree programs?

 

There are lots of examples of these. Many schools will allow you to transfer one to two years worth of prior classes towards a new program. Just search for second degree programs at various schools and see how they handle transfer credits.

[NewDirection]

For what it's worth, I e-mailed Western last week and they said that two-year degrees are okay, as long as they're honours.

[Nasket]

For what it's worth, I e-mailed Western last week and they said that two-year degrees are okay, as long as they're honours.

 

Thank you for this clarification. This makes sense because to get a second honours degree, you should be able to get it by taking 10 full-year courses.

 

I use this link as an example (where it says on top of the page, how to acquire a second honours degree) where 60 units or 20 half year courses or 10 full year courses is adequate for a 2nd Honours:

 

http://registrar.mcmaster.ca/calendar/2011-12/pg1909.html

[mikeb88]

I'm currently at UWO doing my second UG degree. I have popped into Schulich's offices on a number of occasions to clarify their second degree policies and ensure that I remain eligible, so hopefully I can help. With regards to a second undergraduate degree, this is correct:

two-year degrees are okay, as long as they're honours.

It must be Honours or equivalent. If you need to clarify what "Honours or equivalent" means, I suggest you read their policy statement. If you fulfill this requirement, they will take your best 2 years of the second degree to calculate your GPA, and drop all courses from your first degree. Keep in mind that although your first degree is not considered in their GPA calculation, they will more than likely have access to your entire academic record.

 

From what I've been told, 2-year degrees are acceptable. You can only apply during your final year of the program. This means if you're doing a 2-year degree, you can only apply to Schulich in your second year. Likewise, in a 3-year degree you can only apply in your third year. If you're applying after only one year of your second degree, they will only take that year into consideration and may offer a conditional acceptance.

 

One thing that I still need to clarify is whether you can apply to the program if you plan on completing your degree the following summer. For example, if you have 6 courses remaining on your current degree in September, can you apply during the current cycle if you plan on taking 5 courses during the year and the 6th course during the following summer semester. When I find out the answer to this question I will post in this thread.

 

As mentioned for the "3/5 rule", 3 out of your 5 full-year courses must be "Senior Level", (Senior Level meaning Year 2 or above). Put simply, you can only take a maximum of two first-year courses per year. Anything more than that will disqualify you. Keep in mind you must have a full 5-course load from September-April. You will be disqualified if you take fewer courses.

 

I was also told by the Schulich office in September that they are working on changing their second-degree policies. They're pretty tight-lipped about what exactly they're changing but I was told that one of the things they're reviewing is the "3/5 rule". It is quite confusing and people have complained about it unfairly disqualifying them when they're program requires that they take a number of 1st year prerequisites. I'm not sure exactly what they're doing to the rule, but I was told that my current course load (I have two 1st-year courses) should be acceptable. I was instructed to take whatever courses were necessary for completion of my degree, and to appeal if it caused a problem with my application. I wasn't aware of the other changes mentioned in this thread, but that doesn't mean they're not possible. If they apply to you I suggest you contact or visit Schulich. In my experience they may take several days or weeks to respond, but they are more than willing to answer any questions if you visit them in person.

[tooty]

nice work mike.

 

everyone, please pm me with western's final decisions so I can amend the sticky appropriately.

[ETCH]

hi, i might have interpreted it incorrectly,

 

for first undergraduate degree there's this requirement,

In your 3rd year of study 3/5 full course equivalents must be at the 3rd year or above

 

for second undergraduate degree there's this requirement,

3/5 full or equivalent courses taken in each of the upper years of the second degree program must be senior-level courses. GPA consideration is based on the two best years of the second degree program only.

 

so if next academic year i will be classified as a 3rd-year student at my school due to the number of credits i have transferred/earned (yet it would take me 3 years (3rd, 4th, 5th) to complete the degree because the credits i have do not match my new major), I can enroll in three 2nd-year courses (senior-level) and two 1st-year courses, and the year GPA would be considered?

i understand one's not eligible to apply before the final year of their 2nd undergraduate program.

[mikeb88]

so if next academic year i will be classified as a 3rd-year student at my school due to the number of credits i have transferred/earned (yet it would take me 3 years (3rd, 4th, 5th) to complete the degree because the credits i have do not match my new major), I can enroll in three 2nd-year courses (senior-level) and two 1st-year courses, and the year GPA would be considered?

i understand one's not eligible to apply before the final year of their 2nd undergraduate program.

 

From what I understand, this is correct given their current policy. This is similar to what I'm currently doing. My second degree requirements include two 1st-year courses (1000 level at UWO) taken this year. When I brought my schedule to Schulich they told me that it should be fine. I also had them email me confirmation so I could get it in writing. Their advice was to fulfill my degree requirements, apply after one year, and appeal in the off chance I am disqualified.

 

For clarification, read about UWO's policy from their website or in the stickied thread. There have been talks about UWO changing their 2nd degree policy, so I think it would be best to contact/visit Schulich's admissions office for further clarification.

[ETCH]

so it looks like the current policy now for second degree applicants UWO discourages only first-year courses / second-year courses with no prerequisites;

at least second-year courses with prerequisites are not discouraged, together with third/fourth-year courses, inspite of the year one's classified as by one's own university.

(unlike first degree applicants where second-year courses are discouraged during third-year of study; but then again first degree applicants generally wouldn't have a bunch of first-year unrelated electives unwillingly transferred bumping up to a second-year status, when one just begins a completely new unrelated degree with compulsory all first-year courses)

 

thank you.

[mikeb88]

I'm not sure if you're summarizing the info in the stickies and provided in this thread, or if you've gotten some information on policy changes. Could you please clarify?

 

so it looks like the current policy now for second degree applicants UWO discourages only first-year courses / second-year courses with no prerequisites;

at least second-year courses with prerequisites are not discouraged, together with third/fourth-year courses, inspite of the year one's classified as by one's own university.

(unlike first degree applicants where second-year courses are discouraged during third-year of study; but then again first degree applicants generally wouldn't have a bunch of first-year unrelated electives unwillingly transferred bumping up to a second-year status, when one just begins a completely new unrelated degree with compulsory all first-year courses)

 

thank you.

[Der Kaiser]

In my experience a first year course in a subject completely outside the training of your first degree is harder than a fourth year course related to your first degree.

[rmorelan]

Where is this ruomor of second degree modification coming from? There has been no obvious change as far as I know (yet?).

 

I always suggest everyone lets the office their complete plans for their second degree and have them confirm it would work. This is just a matter of logical approach I think.