AtomSmasher2 Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 You got some serious trust issues... Or maybe you just have terrible taste in women. Come on, you've been to med school right? you should know better than this. Doctors make lots of money. People that make lots of money have to pay large sums of child support. If a woman gets pregnant to a rich guy (or future rich guy, like a med student), that's a one-way ticket to the good life for her. So there's a financial motivation for women to sperm-jack a med student. As for the rest, I don't want to go back and forth with you anymore so I'm throwing in the towel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 i could really intellectualize this since i know the origin of political correctness out of freudian psychoanalysis, which wasn't a psychologic tradition but one that was meant to herald in liberal values into academia and pathologize others, but i wont, because i really wanna go to the coffee shop and do logic puzzles. bro, i disagree with half of what you say, but i'm glad you say it, political correctness and professionalism are what k-12 is really supposed to teach you all about... medicine will shove their notion of professionalism down your throat so that you go in an outspoken, confident man, and come out meek, and unwilling to stand up for you beliefs (i was having a 3 hour convo w/ my bud in clerkship about this and a whole bunch of other related things yesterday). your second paragraph is totally fine, except for d), that's just your notion of happiness and you have to realize other people have their own notions... i personally enjoy freedom (and believe me, your spending habits, not your income, determine this), travelling, money (but not to the point where it interferes with other aspects of my life), deep romantic relationships (which i've already qualified, is a female best friend i'm extremely really close with, and have sexual chemistry with), sex (which doesn't have to be with my partner) and friends... i also like simple pleasures like skiing, my morning latte, snow, art, listening to and making music, writing, sports... altered states of consciousness are also nice ... there's also certain demographics of people whose lives i'd like to make a difference in, and a bunch more. personally, i think i wold really enjoy adopting a kid, because to be brutally honest, the thing with a kid i would really enjoy are the things you do after you're 8 or 9, i don't want to be changing diapers and things, but i'd love to play hockey with my son, or encourage him in whatever he decides he wants to do (wow, i just realized i have a real preference for male children), and at that age, you're not tied down, the kids can look after themselves, and you can send them on their own vacations while you and your gf go to temptation island or whatever it's called, i guess that's sort of the best of both worlds, you can have your cake and eat it too! "Cynical" is a better descriptor of my posts than "inflammatory." That being said, people nowadays need to be more offended in our world full of bull**** like "political correctness" and "professionalism" (which rough translate to never saying what you really mean). Absolutely. Having kids is a moronic idea if your goal in life is any of A) money, freedom, C) sex, or D) happiness (basically anything worth living for.) Unfortunately, men have no control over their reproduction (barring vasectomy which comes with a host of negative effects), so having them is pretty much an inevitability. And so the cycle of bull**** and unhappiness continues into the next generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilirubin3 Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 I think it would be very unfair for someone to go into medical school deliberately planning to have children during that time. Having a kid during that time would undoubtedly make your own performance suffer (I can't speak for this first hand, but I know raising a kid must take a massive amount of time) and there are thousands of applicants who would be willing to give it their all during those years. Especially during the clinical years, when even those without other major commitments find their time completely occupied, I think its probably the worst time in your life to have a kid. Not to mention it is harmful to the child as well, since this will be likely the busiest point in your life, and also the most critical time of the child's development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 ^ self-serving, judgmental and convenient/unproven arguments We all have autonomy and are free to make our own decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cardiomegaly Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 I think it would be very unfair for someone to go into medical school deliberately planning to have children during that time. Having a kid during that time would undoubtedly make your own performance suffer (I can't speak for this first hand, but I know raising a kid must take a massive amount of time) and there are thousands of applicants who would be willing to give it their all during those years. Especially during the clinical years, when even those without other major commitments find their time completely occupied, I think its probably the worst time in your life to have a kid. Not to mention it is harmful to the child as well, since this will be likely the busiest point in your life, and also the most critical time of the child's development. Seriously? What about med students who repeat years because they slacked hard and didn't take their courses seriously, or students who have legitimate mental health issues or family crises and need time off? Life happens. Also, if medical school is the busiest point in your life think hard about that career path because I guarantee 5 years of residency is 10230190 x worse. As a clerk I work hard and feel sleep deprived but not near anything to my jr or sr resident who is fielding so many phone calls and ward calls and admission reviews and being **** on constantly. The most common time to have kids is actually during residency... residents do so much more for patients and the health care system as a whole (hospitals would fall apart) so wouldn't it be worse for them to willingly choose to take time for their own life and have a kid? Or maybe staff doctors shouldn't because they're the ones who have the most responsibility and impact on patient care.... the argument is illogical. Instead of pointing fingers and blaming others for the difficult admissions process, I think most premeds really need to take accountability for the fact that admission into medical school is in their hands - only you can make your GPA, MCAT, interviews and EC's as best as they can be. Sorry for the rant, I've just seen too many of these "we shouldn't let x type of person into medical school, it should be x person who is more similar to my background and I am more deserving" threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMe Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 well put cardiomegaly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoss Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 ^ self-serving, judgmental and convenient/unproven arguments We all have autonomy and are free to make our own decisions. Man I see this label thrown around like handouts on this forum. For OP's inquiry, which is not dealing with the appropriateness of having kids in med school, I don't know about Mac specifically, but Canadian med schools are generally quite accommodating of their students. I suspect they would allow you to take a year off and pick up where you left off the next year, but I'm not sure. Mac's principles and reputation would also make me inclined to believe they are "family friendly". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Man I see this label thrown around like handouts on this forum. Who are you to judge when ''judgemental'' is used appropriately or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoss Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 Who are you to judge when ''judgemental'' is used appropriately or not... Lol... ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hero Posted November 27, 2011 Report Share Posted November 27, 2011 To address the OP's concern, I am a Mac student and I have had 3 parents from our class in my tutorial (PBL) groups thus far. Every one of them has been a fantastic contributor to the group and always comes well prepared, they never slacked in terms of doing the work (whereas I did multiple times during the course of the year.) What I think people may not be realizing is that yes, you have more responsibility which takes away more time from studying but these parents tend to have their priorities straight and instead of spending time partying, they spend time with their kids. Mac has a really flexible schedule which allows you to do both so don't be discouraged, you may just have to work a little harder. In terms of leave of absence, typically at the end of the MF or even before medical school you take a year off and just rejoin the next class at that point in the year. A girl in my group did that and will be returning this year. The government of Ontario allocates funding to you for the 3 years medical school so whether you do 3 straight years or take a break in between it doesn't make a difference. Hope that helped and good luck applying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedPen Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 This thread makes me angry. Some of you people are actually judging and telling someone off because she wants to have kids during med school? Are you for real? Since when is medical school equivalent to a monastery where all you do is dedicate yourself completely to one cause? It's SCHOOL. Just like law school, an MSc, a PhD, or any other advanced degree. Get over yourself. Medical school is nowhere near as important as you'd like it to be and some people that have these wonderful little things called "lives" during medical school or whatever else they pursue. If you're so intent on bashing the OP for wanting kids, go get one. A life that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 This thread makes me angry. Some of you people are actually judging and telling someone off because she wants to have kids during med school? Are you for real? Since when is medical school equivalent to a monastery where all you do is dedicate yourself completely to one cause? It's SCHOOL. Just like law school, an MSc, a PhD, or any other advanced degree. Get over yourself. Medical school is nowhere near as important as you'd like it to be and some people that have these wonderful little things called "lives" during medical school or whatever else they pursue. If you're so intent on bashing the OP for wanting kids, go get one. A life that is. Not trying to judge but, from someone who went to undergrad as a parent, I would say wait. I am guy and, truth be told, it will be even harder on a woman, as females, being generally more nurturing, often want a tidy, well maintained nest for her family. This means more domestic chores than her partner and she will feel like a nag for wanting more help. The man, though will think: "It's clean enough" or "it doesn't have to be done right now" or "what mess?" Of course I am generalising, but this is generally true. If the male partner is a professional, an executive or a businessman, he will barely be home a will be of very little help. If he is not, than he is probably not as driven as the female partner and will come home from work expecting to rest and do "guy things". I am being frank. Any husband will tell you what you want to hear, but will not want to take on more chores, and this will show and eventually stress everybody out. Sorry! Just wait. By the way, MedPen, don't be so judgemental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedPen Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Not trying to judge but, from someone who went to undergrad as a parent, I would say wait. I am guy and, truth be told, it will be even harder on a woman, as females, being generally more nurturing, often want a tidy, well maintained nest for her family. This means more domestic chores than her partner and she will feel like a nag for wanting more help. The man, though will think: "It's clean enough" or "it doesn't have to be done right now" or "what mess?" Of course I am generalising, but this is generally true. If the male partner is a professional, an executive or a businessman, he will barely be home a will be of very little help. If he is not, than he is probably not as driven as the female partner and will come home from work expecting to rest and do "guy things". I am being frank. Any husband will tell you what you want to hear, but will not want to take on more chores, and this will show and eventually stress everybody out. Sorry! Just wait. By the way, MedPen, don't be so judgemental. There is nothing wrong with saying "I'd wait" but there is something very wrong with saying that it's irresponsible, or it's taking a seat away from someone, or parents make bad doctors or wtv. People have a life outside med. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 There is nothing wrong with saying "I'd wait" but there is something very wrong with saying that it's irresponsible, or it's taking a seat away from someone, or parents make bad doctors or wtv. People have a life outside med. Everyone has a life outside med even the most intense kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goleafsgochris Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 There is nothing wrong with saying "I'd wait" but there is something very wrong with saying that it's irresponsible, or it's taking a seat away from someone, or parents make bad doctors or wtv. People have a life outside med. Ya I agree. Nothing wrong with having kids during med school. The "taking up a spot" argument--honestly why would you give a **** lol? This same argument happens whenever a woman tries to have kids in any high powered job. People get bent out of shape. But guess what? A woman has a right to have a kid whenever the hell she wants, whether in meds or if shes high up in a fortune 500 company. That being said, kids are a time drain, so I would recommend against them just so you can have some fun and not worry about chasing around little brats constantly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 lol, i have a friend who doesn't want to practice after he finishes his md, he may do a fm residency and work for 2 years to pay debt, but even finds this distasteful, i wonder what you would think of him... or my other friend who dropped out of u of t after 2 years and got an mph... my other buddies bro dropped out after 3rd year... i could go on but it may upset you that they're taking "your" spots... but to be honest, residency is where it's at, if there aren't enough cmg's to fill residency spots, we'll just sell them to saudi's or maybe give an img a break, so it's not like a need is going unfulfilled, plus an md with a law/business/public health background could be very useful to society if you're going to make the service to society argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB. Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 My opinion would be the same towards your friends too, Muse. I apologize if you feel I'm being insensitive, but these spots are very limited. It is selfish IMO if you go into med knowing you're not going to complete. It takes away from people who are dying to have that spot and run with it and make good use of their training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 hmmm, so what about all the residency spots we sell to saudis, who go back to the kingdom when they're done... img's could take out loans to buy these spots, but they stay in canada and practice... you should really read into how many spots we actually sell... the funny thing is all those people will make good use of their training, getting a portion of an md gives you a lot of transferable skills to other fields which contribute to society (like my friend with an mph who employs over 10 people and prevents std outbreaks)... what about md's who work in med admin, are they wasting their clinical training... well not really because we could just use that extra residency spot to make money to sell to saudi's or offer it a qualified img who we didn't pay to train. My opinion would be the same towards your friends too, Muse. I apologize if you feel I'm being insensitive, but these spots are very limited. It is selfish IMO if you go into med knowing you're not going to complete. It takes away from people who are dying to have that spot and run with it and make good use of their training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 My opinion would be the same towards your friends too, Muse. I apologize if you feel I'm being insensitive, but these spots are very limited. It is selfish IMO if you go into med knowing you're not going to complete. It takes away from people who are dying to have that spot and run with it and make good use of their training. Having an MD opens up a fair more amount of doors than not. MD + MBA and you're in prime position for some serious management tracts, consulting tracts in HC. MD + MPH and you're in prime position for some serious policy/gov't or consulting tracts in HC. I'd consider it like playing russian roulette as practising is the only sure fire way that you'll be able to pay off your loans BUT if you know you can get a gig where that won't be a problem then I don't think it's an issue and don't see it as taking a spot away from someone else. That's the self entitled useless view Canadians have come to perpetuate and it's disgusting. That person earned their spot so how is it taking away from someone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 My opinion would be the same towards your friends too, Muse. I apologize if you feel I'm being insensitive, but these spots are very limited. It is selfish IMO if you go into med knowing you're not going to complete. It takes away from people who are dying to have that spot and run with it and make good use of their training. And following your logic of taking spots, how about surgical residents who burn out after a couple of years and transfer into family? From my point of view, people earn their spots, they don't take them from someone, and they have no obligation, legal nor moral to complete their training. Not completing an MD degree is comparable to completing the MD and getting an MBA right after and working in admin for the rest of your life. Would you say that the latter didn't steal a spot just because he completed the degree? Where can we draw the line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB. Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Like I said, I am referring to people who take the position knowing ahead of time they don't plan to complete or make use of their education. This obviously does not apply to people who burn out, fall ill, have a change of heart part way through etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 i think when you qualify your statement in that manner then you're referring to an infinitesimally small group of people... not very many people are like, i'm going to do four years of med school, then work in construction management... before they enter med school... Like I said, I am referring to people who take the position knowing ahead of time they don't plan to complete or make use of their education. This obviously does not apply to people who burn out, fall ill, have a change of heart part way through etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 Like I said, I am referring to people who take the position knowing ahead of time they don't plan to complete or make use of their education. This obviously does not apply to people who burn out, fall ill, have a change of heart part way through etc. Fair enough. However, I think that people who go into medicine and who know beforehand that they're not going to complete their training is EXTREMELY extremely rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 I cannot imagine anybody entering the program with the intent of leaving it in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dino Posted November 29, 2011 Report Share Posted November 29, 2011 To sum up my previous arguments: Becoming a parent while in school or before/during med school is not irresponsible. It is not immoral or unethical. It is not unfeasable. It's just going to be really fickung hard from then on. And I dare says it is probably even harder for a woman because of the way society and relationships are built. However, you will still love your children and will be willing to do anything for their benefit. Whatever your decision, weigh the circumstances carefully. Remember this: You will have almost no sleep for the next few years. Making time to study will mean no social life. It will harder than you expect! Believe me, this is not a cliché. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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