future_doc Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I don't know what my IQ is and I don't care~ Everybody from Boucherville is very smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futurepediatric Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Years ago my IQ result was lower than 100 and I have always been an over-achiever. I laughed when I got the result that I considered a joke. Life tests me and I go by these results. I wish I can like this ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I attempted to take that test, but the boredom got to me within the first 5 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Furthermore, the actual IQ test was designed to identify kids who needed extra help when the french school system moved from mostly private to mostly public, there would be huge discrepancies in what grade 5 was in one school compared to say a more wealthy school, so they needed a way to measure the skills one would have acquired according to the new broad public curriculum, as people in grade 6 from a poor private school may need to be placed in grade 3, not for lack of intelligence, but because of the variable curriculum. Really, the IQ test was initially developed as a placement exam, not as a measure of intrinsic ability or intelligence. It would be akin to me saying that north americans suck at math because people from arabic, slavic and asiatic nations kick north americans ass in math when they start university, it's really because math training in those countries is far more advanced than in north america, not that north americans have an intrinsic brain deficiency in their ability to do math. one of the big problems with our poor math education here is that competing against people who have strong math backgrounds often hinders north americans from going into mathematics and statistics, which are very valuable and rewarding fields. Fun fact of the day: Alfred Binet, who developed the first IQ test, didn't believe that intelligence was a measurable fixed quantity and actually intended for the test to be used to identify kids who needed extra help in school and then to get them the help they needed to catch up with their peers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 The British created the Eleven Plus Exam given to children at age 11 which determines their educational, social and economic future forever. Those with socio-economic advantages of life do well whereas the poor, except for the exceptional, do poorly. These exams determine which schools the children will be allowed to enter. And their futures are predetermined. It is an amazing invention to keep the poor in their place! These exams exist wherever the British have had the footprint. And of course, the teachers at the poorer schools have no expectations for kids going to schools that collect these kids, they skip big parts of the curriculum, come to class late and help to set the kids up for failure. So much for tests that determine intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check212 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 The British created the Eleven Plus Exam given to children at age 11 which determines their educational, social and economic future forever. Those with socio-economic advantages of life do well whereas the poor, except for the exceptional, do poorly. These exams determine which schools the children will be allowed to enter. And their futures are predetermined. It is an amazing invention to keep the poor in their place! These exams exist wherever the British have had the footprint. And of course, the teachers at the poorer schools have no expectations for kids going to schools that collect these kids, they skip big parts of the curriculum, come to class late and help to set the kids up for failure. So much for tests that determine intelligence. Many immigrants from extremely poor environments have the mentality that "I didn't get to go to school, but my kids will." We have so many advantages in this country that the socioeconomic argument your'e making here holds little water. We have access to FREE public funds, job opportunities, and paid education up to post secondary, where the government then loans you money with no credit check. Doesn't get much easier than this to make something of yoursefl. People should be held accountable for their responsibilities. Raising your kids to be educated is your responsibility if you have any sense. (and this up to 11 argument in Britain is the same thing, the kids have access to education and some do make it, which means the knowledge bestowed upon them is adequate to get where they need to go at that age 11 test.) When people don't do it, they're "disadvantaged". When they do it, they're "the exception". How about we start not forgiving idiots? Sounds like a good idea to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Canada is the land of milk and honey for all, especially for us immigrants where we advance on merit and our futures are very much depdendent upon our own hard work and achievements. My reference to the 11+ exams was an illustration meant to show how pigeon holing anybody based upon the results of an exam can be devestating to the person tested from many perspectives. The ripple effect of this exam for example remains in the Caribbean where the poor generally do poorly and poverty, the class system with the elite remains well and intact. In these schools where the children of supposedly lower intellectual ability are herded together, treated with disrespect by their teachers who act more like baby sitters who arrive late and who don 't teach the entire curriculum which perpetuates failure, low self-esteem and these kids take the menial jobs as they are not educated for anything else. It is un fortunate in many countries that the power base like to maintain the status quo using outdated tests to support their agenda. So much for the Binet test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capucine Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Everybody from Boucherville is very smart. Haha OF COURSE! And future_doc you say that there is test in Britain and that it's bad... But we do have tests here too. I don't know about the rest of Canada, but in Quebec you must take test to get in private schools or in special programm of public schools (like the IB program). Those who don't get mark high enough (or can't pay for private school) go to public school. Now we can say that public school is as good as private school... But is it really true? In my med class this year, on ~180 students, only about 30 of us never went to a private school... Now I don't want to start a debate about public vs private schools, I'm just saying that our system is not completely fair either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check212 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Canada is the land of milk and honey for all, especially for us immigrants where we advance on merit and our futures are very much depdendent upon our own hard work and achievements. My reference to the 11+ exams was an illustration meant to show how pigeon holing anybody based upon the results of an exam can be devestating to the person tested from many perspectives. The ripple effect of this exam for example remains in the Caribbean where the poor generally do poorly and poverty, the class system with the elite remains well and intact. In these schools where the children of supposedly lower intellectual ability are herded together, treated with disrespect by their teachers who act more like baby sitters who arrive late and who don 't teach the entire curriculum which perpetuates failure, low self-esteem and these kids take the menial jobs as they are not educated for anything else. It is un fortunate in many countries that the power base like to maintain the status quo using outdated tests to support their agenda. So much for the Binet test. Even if the'yre pigeon holed, there are no excuses in a Westernized country. There's simply too much opportunity. You have to be ACTIVELY trying to mess up to actually become a failure. The situation you pointed out in the Caribbean though, that's a bit extreme, and even there, unless it was absolutely impossible to get an education based on something like a dictatorial regime preventing you, I'm sure you could salvage something. I've heard of people's parents going to schools without furnaces sitting in the cold. I'm sure the Carib kids are able to at least get a highschool education. Past that, it's a crap shoot due to possible financial constraints I'll admit, but not impossible. As long as one person can do it, why the hell can't the others is my opinion on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1b1 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 IQ tests and categorizing people as smart or slow learners is very subjective in my opinion. When i was in primary school, I was considered a slow learner because I knew 3 languages and I was not so good at french, so understanding what the teachers would ask me was very hard and as a result I did very very poorly (so bad that they actually transferred me to a different school midway). In High school I was placed in a class known as : MAP (mal apprentissage, or something like that i forget what it stood for, but essentially it was the class for the students who teachers had gave up on). I did an IQ test back in highschool and I got in the 90s, teachers would always complain to my parents how I was not bright and did not listen or understand the materials and my parents would be super upset. I ended up taking 2 more years to finish high school, since this MAP class required to do sec 1 in 2 years, and due to other personal reasons which i will not disclose. In cegep, I finally joined an english college, and thats when things started to turn out the best for me. I started to get 80s for the first time ever in my life and was doing very well. However, when i tried to get into health sciences they would not let me because of my high school grades, so instead I did 1 year of social science and had to go through another long and complicated process, which essentially involved forcing my way into health science. Once there i started to work hard like i never did before and havent looked back. Now im in university and have straight A's, but it requires alot of effort. I did an IQ test again about a year ago and obtained a 156. Do i think im smart? absolutely not, do i think im in the 156? Given my past, no way. All this to say, that I do not believe IQ tests are valid, it really comes down to a persons own will to push themselves further. If you have that will, I dont believe anything can stop you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Even if the'yre pigeon holed, there are no excuses in a Westernized country. There's simply too much opportunity. You have to be ACTIVELY trying to mess up to actually become a failure. The situation you pointed out in the Caribbean though, that's a bit extreme, and even there, unless it was absolutely impossible to get an education based on something like a dictatorial regime preventing you, I'm sure you could salvage something. I've heard of people's parents going to schools without furnaces sitting in the cold. I'm sure the Carib kids are able to at least get a highschool education. Past that, it's a crap shoot due to possible financial constraints I'll admit, but not impossible. As long as one person can do it, why the hell can't the others is my opinion on this matter. The Carib kids do complete high school but for these kids, their reading skills are at grade 3 level! Nobody cares, they are pushed through the system and kept off the streets, out of trouble. They don't have a chance. Sure, there are some gifted children who can thrive in any system and these poor kids with no advantages shine, get into the best high schools and become doctors and lawyers. Just from their own initiative, work ethic and being naturally gifted. They are the exception. The rest languish. And their medical and legal education is totally free. The system in these countries actively messes them up. It is kept as a secret. We are all soooo lucky to be in Canada where this does not occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 IQ tests and categorizing people as smart or slow learners is very subjective in my opinion. When i was in primary school, I was considered a slow learner because I knew 3 languages and I was not so good at french, so understanding what the teachers would ask me was very hard and as a result I did very very poorly (so bad that they actually transferred me to a different school midway). In High school I was placed in a class known as : MAP (mal apprentissage, or something like that i forget what it stood for, but essentially it was the class for the students who teachers had gave up on). I did an IQ test back in highschool and I got in the 90s, teachers would always complain to my parents how I was not bright and did not listen or understand the materials and my parents would be super upset. I ended up taking 2 more years to finish high school, since this MAP class required to do sec 1 in 2 years, and due to other personal reasons which i will not disclose. In cegep, I finally joined an english college, and thats when things started to turn out the best for me. I started to get 80s for the first time ever in my life and was doing very well. However, when i tried to get into health sciences they would not let me because of my high school grades, so instead I did 1 year of social science and had to go through another long and complicated process, which essentially involved forcing my way into health science. Once there i started to work hard like i never did before and havent looked back. Now im in university and have straight A's, but it requires alot of effort. I did an IQ test again about a year ago and obtained a 156. Do i think im smart? absolutely not, do i think im in the 156? Given my past, no way. All this to say, that I do not believe IQ tests are valid, it really comes down to a persons own will to push themselves further. If you have that will, I dont believe anything can stop you. I absolutely agree with the bold above. My IQ score too was sub-par. They make it simpler for so-called good profesionals to validate what they want to do. I am an immigrant and we came here with nothing. Everything my family members achieved as individuals has been the result of hard work and believing we can do anything, that nothing is impossible. Every one of my family members achieved their dreams, which is supposedly against the odds. But then, if you refuse to settle, to recognize defeat, if you remain devoted to your dream and motivated, if you are prepared for setbacks and don't let them stand in your way treating them as challenges and not obstacles, your every dream can come true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Femto Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Even if the'yre pigeon holed, there are no excuses in a Westernized country. There's simply too much opportunity. You have to be ACTIVELY trying to mess up to actually become a failure. The situation you pointed out in the Caribbean though, that's a bit extreme, and even there, unless it was absolutely impossible to get an education based on something like a dictatorial regime preventing you, I'm sure you could salvage something. I've heard of people's parents going to schools without furnaces sitting in the cold. I'm sure the Carib kids are able to at least get a highschool education. Past that, it's a crap shoot due to possible financial constraints I'll admit, but not impossible. As long as one person can do it, why the hell can't the others is my opinion on this matter. Unfortunately your biased opinions are a result of a certain personal background, just like everyone else's...so I won't be too harsh. Since it is not necessarily your fault for having that opinion (you'll see why soon...although I believe deviations from a determinsitic reality begin to diverge exactly here, with thought like yours), I haven't lost much respect for you. Even if you do not subscribe to a strong determinstic interpretation of human behaviour, it would be foolish to suggest that somethings, like the social class you grew up in, etc, is not somewhat deterministic of your future. This extends quite far, imo. First of all, you clearly have no idea what Britain was like 20-40 years ago, when my parents and many other current Canadian students' parents went to grade school. And second of all, I don't think you have a right to accuse people of being dumb for not seeking out higher education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Haha OF COURSE! And future_doc you say that there is test in Britain and that it's bad... But we do have tests here too. I don't know about the rest of Canada, but in Quebec you must take test to get in private schools or in special programm of public schools (like the IB program). Those who don't get mark high enough (or can't pay for private school) go to public school. Now we can say that public school is as good as private school... But is it really true? In my med class this year, on ~180 students, only about 30 of us never went to a private school... Now I don't want to start a debate about public vs private schools, I'm just saying that our system is not completely fair either. Our public school system in Quebec is really quite good and I know of numerous success stories. Sadly, life is not fair but it is what we make of it. My attitude has always been that I would not let anything or anybody stand in my way, I had my detours and achieved my initial goal of med school. Now I am in the process of exploring for my new dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check212 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Unfortunately your biased opinions are a result of a certain personal background, just like everyone else's...so I won't be too harsh. I didn't read past this insulting sentence to see what gabrabge you may have written. I do not let my personal experiences cloud my objective opinions. Please know what you're saying next time. Take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Lot's of people in Canada are born into situations which don't let them have a piece of the pie all of the new immigrant families are drooling at for their kids. I could describe some of the people I personally know, but I've done it a million times, just find an old post or something. Ever worked at a homeless drop in, a shelter, mental hospital, had a schizophrenic mother, or bipolar, crack addicted aunt, with a gamut of alcoholic womanizing brothers. Luckily I had a good father who did the best he could with his grade six education; I had a friend who wasn't so fortunate and just had his schizophrenic mother, who would lock him in his room, harass him and his friends, lock him out of the house because she feared he was the devil... needless to say the wheels fell of that bus, and I know people in way worse situations than that. I didn't read past this insulting sentence to see what gabrabge you may have written. I do not let my personal experiences cloud my objective opinions. Please know what you're saying next time. Take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check212 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Lot's of people in Canada are born into situations which don't let them have a piece of the pie all of the new immigrant families are drooling at for their kids. I could describe some of the people I personally know, but I've done it a million times, just find an old post or something. Ever worked at a homeless drop in, a shelter, mental hospital, had a schizophrenic mother, or bipolar, crack addicted aunt, with a gamut of alcoholic womanizing brothers. Luckily I had a good father who did the best he could with his grade six education; I had a friend who wasn't so fortunate and just had his schizophrenic mother, who would lock him in his room, harass him and his friends, lock him out of the house because she feared he was the devil... needless to say the wheels fell of that bus, and I know people in way worse situations than that. That's beyond the scope of what I was implying. I meant that the MAJORITY (I'd say 90% at least), have the opportunity to go to school from 9am-3pm Monday-Friday until Gr. 12. Very simple. It's also pretty straight forward that if you go to school, you have a place to live. If you have shelter, food, and access to education, why the hell aren't you taking advantage? It's either the parents or the children's fault if they're not educated. The situations you're naming are outliers to the standard distribution of people in Canada. Obviously if someone is schizophrenic, or their parent is and they get harassed daily, that child will likely not be able to attend class or take advantage of life here, but it's absurd to think that that applies to the majority of people or to use that to rebut the point I was making. That's like saying you won't go to class because there's a 1% chance you'll fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Femto Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 That's beyond the scope of what I was implying. I meant that the MAJORITY (I'd say 90% at least), have the opportunity to go to school from 9am-3pm Monday-Friday until Gr. 12. Very simple. It's also pretty straight forward that if you go to school, you have a place to live. If you have shelter, food, and access to education, why the hell aren't you taking advantage? It's either the parents or the children's fault if they're not educated. The situations you're naming are outliers to the standard distribution of people in Canada. Obviously if someone is schizophrenic, or their parent is and they get harassed daily, that child will likely not be able to attend class or take advantage of life here, but it's absurd to think that that applies to the majority of people or to use that to rebut the point I was making. That's like saying you won't go to class because there's a 1% chance you'll fail. My previous comment to you was not intended to be so offenses. I think if you did read the rest of my post, you would have seen that, or maybe I just wasnt explicit enough. The problem is not knowing the answer to the question bolded above. And the answer isn't as simple as they are dumb...and even if it were, should we treat them poorly just because they are not intelligent enough to see that they are missing out on an opportunity? The actions of a lot of dumb people are hard to deal with, becasue it is not really their fault they are dumb...hence my determinism reference in my origianl post, and why I was not so harsh on your comment (note: I did not just call you dumb) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Femto Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I didn't read past this insulting sentence to see what gabrabge you may have written. I do not let my personal experiences cloud my objective opinions. Please know what you're saying next time. Take care. I don't know if this is possible though, and if you did read the rest of my post, you would have seen that. Perhaps I should have rearranged the structure of my post so that your ego wouldn't have limited you from understanding the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check212 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 My previous comment to you was not intended to be so offenses. I think if you did read the rest of my post, you would have seen that, or maybe I just wasnt explicit enough. The problem is not knowing the answer to the question bolded above. And the answer isn't as simple as they are dumb...and even if it were, should we treat them poorly just because they are not intelligent enough to see that they are missing out on an opportunity? The actions of a lot of dumb people are hard to deal with, becasue it is not really their fault they are dumb...hence my determinism reference in my origianl post, and why I was not so harsh on your comment (note: I did not just call you dumb) You're taking dumb to a whole new level tehn. I don't see how someone can't understand "Going to school is good for you". In this society, we put so much effort into education that it's not about "being dumb" and not understanding the value of education. That's bullocks. What kind of dumb would that have to be? The kind where they're running into walls for no good reason and laughing like jesters after? Come on, get real. They're also ungrateful. Handed all this great stuff, and yet, would rather do nothing with their lives. You don't have to be smart to be grateful when someone hands you 100 dollars and says "Go do whatever you want with it". I think even a handicapped person could be like "hmm, this is good, I shoud do this". These people are handed money essentially, and yet they still don't take advantage of it. There are other people from other countries who are equally "dumb" or "smart" to these people who take full advantage of the system in a positive way. They go to school, get educations and get on the right track. The ones who are born here are absolute idiots in my opinion. You see very few immigrants who don't understand the value of education, but you sure as heck see a lot of whiney little snots born here who say things like "I hate math, what's math going to do for me" instead of just doin the work and getting a good grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
check212 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I don't know if this is possible though, and if you did read the rest of my post, you would have seen that. Perhaps I should have rearranged the structure of my post so that your ego wouldn't have limited you from understanding the point. Again, more condescending statements. You bore me. The genius of your point of "they're less intelligent so they don't go to school" is clearly rebuffed above. I hope my ego doesn't get in the way of you understanding how dumb your point about dumb people was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Femto Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Again, more condescending statements. You bore me. The genius of your point of "they're less intelligent so they don't go to school" is clearly rebuffed above. I hope my ego doesn't get in the way of you understanding how dumb your point about dumb people was. I am not going to say anything more. I should have tried to articulate the concept I was trying to get across more clearly...because clearly you missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebouque Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I have the answer to your argument. I got this from wiki: The femto litre (US femtoliter) is the metric unit of volume equal to 10−15 litre, or one quinine cillionth (European) or one quadrillionth (American) litre. It is abbreviated FL or fl. One femto litre is the same as 1 μm Isn't it amazing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xkittens Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 . It's also pretty straight forward that if you go to school, you have a place to live. If you have shelter, food, and access to education, why the hell aren't you taking advantage? A country where there's real equal opportunity where everyone gets to take advantage- Cuba. Second highest literacy rate in the world, 50% of 1-12 grade teachers have masters degrees, there are 23 medical schools, and they also spend 10% of their government funding on education. There's clearly a discrepancy in peoples' abilities to take advantage of their resources in a country like Cuba where everything is provided for you and Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Femto Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I have the answer to your argument. I got this from wiki: The femto litre (US femtoliter) is the metric unit of volume equal to 10−15 litre, or one quinine cillionth (European) or one quadrillionth (American) litre. It is abbreviated FL or fl. One femto litre is the same as 1 μm Isn't it amazing? ya...simply brilliant. At least I have an entry.. lol (did i miss something?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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