KMMD Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 That is what I thought as well. Once you meet cut-offs it depends on ABS, essay and LOR which is why it is sometimes really hard to tell how they choose applicants. Please correct me if I am wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BStill Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I would say that all of these points you listed are null for someone who has otherwise obtained admission to another medical school, particularly a top-ranked American school. (The American application process is, in general, much more holistic and essay-based than Canada’s.) Rather, I’d wager that the current rejections have less to do with any deficit on the applicant’s part, and more to do with simply not fitting into U of T’s “mission” and the specific type of future physician it hopes to train. The fact that someone has obtained admittance into another medical school does not make the points null. It is well known that the American schools focus on GPA and especially high MCAT scores. U of T looks closely at the essay and the references. Thus, this is most likely where the deficit is. U of T lists on there website what they are looking for in a person. From U of T website: The University of Toronto will consider applications from students who have completed a minimum of three years (or are in the process of completing their third year) of undergraduate study, and also from students who have completed or are in the final stages of completing a graduate degree subsequent to their undergraduate degree. There is no single background that is ideal preparation for the practice of medicine. Students with university education in any discipline are encouraged to apply. Students should follow a program of study that will offer an alternative to medicine should they not be accepted. Medicine requires individuals with strong backgrounds in the social sciences, humanities, physical sciences and life sciences. The ideal candidate will have completed a rigourous and coherent course of study, which will provide evidence of an independent, self directed, and mature learning style. The ideal candidate will also have evidence of outstanding achievement in non-academic areas. This will be judged by review of the applicant's essay and autobiographical sketch, including documentation of duration and impact of non-academic achievements, supported by reference letters. The admissions committee assesses non-academic qualities, including altruism, reliability, responsibility, perseverance, creativity, and leadership, through this process. The interview may also be used to assess these qualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comeon Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Man, those rejections were terrible. I survived, but after seeing the stats of the individuals who were deemed "not competitive", I am not sure what is going on. Back in the day, I got a 32 MCAT with a 11/11/10 breakdown and the AAMC mentioned that I was in the 85th percentile - I was quite happy. Some of the posts in the Queen's thread and Toronto thread make it seem that the avg. MCAT is probably around 35 for this cycle...and that may still not be good enough. It is very likely that a few candidates with >3.8 GPA and >32 MCAT are going to have 0 interviews in Ontario, and I really hope that you guys apply to the US next year - at least they still have some objective standards. Is it safe to say that we're in the clear now? Judging from Deborah's post this morning I'm thinking that the 600 rejections were all sent out at once... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki dale Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Lol... New twitter update: 600 rejections just sent. How long does it take for an e-mail to show up in your inbox? I don't have anything yet... I saw this, and jetted to my email with a big heavy heart. So glad that weight has been removed...*relief* Now I have to anxiously wait through to March :x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki dale Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Not sure the first thing people do after being rejected is post on this absolutley soul-crushing forum... But who knows, that might be a reasonable expectation to have. I know I wouldn't. I'd probably wait a week. Maybe a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki dale Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 This sounds like the Monty Hall problem to me... I think our odds of getting interviews are, sadly, the same as they always were. I had to google Monty Hall problem. I'm reading it now and it's mindblowing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tee88 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Just saw this on the blog... I suppose our chances really haven't increased/decreased, it's just a matter of time and anxious waiting: MedApplicant Hi Deborah, I know there was a huge wave of regrets sent today and they will be continuing intermittently through late March…I was wondering though if there will be any other mass rejections or just kind of trickling out? * on January 30, 2012 at 2:31 pm | Reply utmedadmissions Hi MedApplicant. I don’t know. It depends to some extent on how you define either. This is something that you can’t control, so you (all) really need to stop fussing about it. We aren’t holding back deliberately. We are trying to do a great and careful job. we’ll be in otuch with everyone as soon as we are able. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikki dale Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Man, those rejections were terrible. I survived, but after seeing the stats of the individuals who were deemed "not competitive", I am not sure what is going on. Back in the day, I got a 32 MCAT with a 11/11/10 breakdown and the AAMC mentioned that I was in the 85th percentile - I was quite happy. Some of the posts in the Queen's thread and Toronto thread make it seem that the avg. MCAT is probably around 35 for this cycle...and that may still not be good enough. It is very likely that a few candidates with >3.8 GPA and >32 MCAT are going to have 0 interviews in Ontario, and I really hope that you guys apply to the US next year - at least they still have some objective standards. UofT does not only care about MCAT or GPA stats when giving out an interview. A large portion is on reference letters, sketch, and essay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Very shocking stats posted today- I have no clue what they're looking for now. Surely the essay can't play THAT big of a role... I wonder how many cycles it will take to drive Deborah insane, haha. I could never put up with the number of questions she's getting on her blog and twitter. Got to admire her honesty and patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comeon Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 ...and I think that sucks. I suppose our writing skills, and the writing skills of 3 other people are important in defining a good doctor. I strongly believe that the essay is the root of dishonesty - a lot of people will write to cater to what they think U of T will like. You get it right, you get an interview. UofT does not only care about MCAT or GPA stats when giving out an interview. A large portion is on reference letters, sketch, and essay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeb88 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 ...and I think that sucks. I suppose our writing skills, and the writing skills of 3 other people are important in defining a good doctor. I strongly believe that the essay is the root of dishonesty - a lot of people will write to cater to what they think U of T will like. You get it right, you get an interview. I suppose it does seem a little unfair, but at the end of the day they're the ones deciding who gets an interview. Everyone will be writing the essay with the purpose of appearing to be the ideal applicant for their medical school. It's their prerogative to decide whether you are the ideal applicant based on what you write. The only thing you can do is hope you're what they're looking for and if you don't get the outcome you want, adjust and try again next cycle. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTJ Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Just saw this on the blog... I suppose our chances really haven't increased/decreased, it's just a matter of time and anxious waiting: MedApplicant Hi Deborah, I know there was a huge wave of regrets sent today and they will be continuing intermittently through late March…I was wondering though if there will be any other mass rejections or just kind of trickling out? * on January 30, 2012 at 2:31 pm | Reply utmedadmissions Hi MedApplicant. I don’t know. It depends to some extent on how you define either. This is something that you can’t control, so you (all) really need to stop fussing about it. We aren’t holding back deliberately. We are trying to do a great and careful job. we’ll be in otuch with everyone as soon as we are able. That's a fair enough answer. I mean, what does it matter if one is rejected en masse or one by one? We'll get our answer when we get our answer and that can be anytime from now until March - I understand wanting to know but there is really nothing more to be said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTJ Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I suppose it does seem a little unfair, but at the end of the day they're the ones deciding who gets an interview. Everyone will be writing the essay with the purpose of appearing to be the ideal applicant for their medical school. It's their prerogative to decide whether you are the ideal applicant based on what you write. The only thing you can do is hope you're what they're looking for and if you don't get the outcome you want, adjust and try again next cycle. Best of luck! I don't think it's unfair at all. On paper, we are all excellent candidates and should all get admitted. The essay not only asseses your writing skills, but more importantly it acts as a sort of pre-interview. You can show that you are articulate and demonstrate maturity and perspective, or you can come off as totally self-absorbed and immature depending on what you write, what you are focused on, what values you seem to hold higher than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeb88 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I don't think it's unfair at all. On paper, we are all excellent candidates and should all get admitted. The essay not only asseses your writing skills, but more importantly it acts as a sort of pre-interview. You can show that you are articulate and demonstrate maturity and perspective, or you can come off as totally self-absorbed and immature depending on what you write, what you are focused on, what values you seem to hold higher than others. My point exactly. It seems unfair to many, but it really isn't. It's their way of whittling down the applicant pool to a manageable number based on what they're looking for. How is that any less fair than other schools who base their pre-interview score on more quantitative measures, such as GPA and MCAT? Each school is looking for something different. It's our job to try to meet those expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepontrying Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 I don't think it's unfair at all. On paper, we are all excellent candidates and should all get admitted. The essay not only asseses your writing skills, but more importantly it acts as a sort of pre-interview. You can show that you are articulate and demonstrate maturity and perspective, or you can come off as totally self-absorbed and immature depending on what you write, what you are focused on, what values you seem to hold higher than others. I agree. The nebulous nature of UofT system is to make it less gameable. If UofT explicitly stated what they look for in the essay and autobio sketch in details, they would receive 2000 similar applications - not exactly what adcom want to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 As agonizing as UT's system is, I much prefer their holistic review process to schools such as UWO. It's much fairer than rejecting thousands of applications because they happened to get one more question wrong on one section of the MCAT than another applicant. I think we in Ontario are somewhat lucky that every school has a slightly different system and they cater to different types of students with differing strengths and weaknesses. Most of us have a shot SOMEwhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTJ Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 My point exactly. It seems unfair to many, but it really isn't. It's their way of whittling down the applicant pool to a manageable number based on what they're looking for. How is that any less fair than other schools who base their pre-interview score on more quantitative measures, such as GPA and MCAT? Each school is looking for something different. It's our job to try to meet those expectations. Yes, I agree.. (post wasn't directed to you specifically, I was just quoting to carry on this thought). I will add though, that I don't see it as our job to try and meet specific personal characteristics. I am who I am and I'm not going to try to be someone else (or try to exude a set of hypothetical qualities) to get into medical school. I see it more as putting the best you forward, and if all signs point to you being a great physician, the right school will see that (eventually!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jawn_doe Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 It feels ****ty getting rejections. I got rejected from all 6 ontario schools pre-interview last year. I re-applied this year and to american schools. I got into an american school. Waiting on others and got an interview to UT. If it doesn't work out, don't quit, just try again. If you want med school bad enough you'll find a way to get in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBoss Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 IMHO essays shouldn't be used heavily in med admissions. Sure, there's the argument about showing maturity, perspective, etc., but I think it's hard to distinguish those qualities from an essay, as decent writers can alter the individual image they portray through their writing, to the point that it doesn't reflect how they behave in reality. This is further distorted when people have their essays "edited", and terrible essays can suddenly become great ones, to no merit of the actual applicants. Further, as the psychologist Thomas Lickoma stated, high levels of moral reasoning do not necessarily correspond with good behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apixaban85 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 IMHO essays shouldn't be used heavily in med admissions. Sure, there's the argument about showing maturity, perspective, etc., but I think it's hard to distinguish those qualities from an essay, as decent writers can alter the individual image they portray through their writing, to the point that it doesn't reflect how they behave in reality. This is further distorted when people have their essays "edited", and terrible essays can suddenly become great ones, to no merit of the actual applicants. Further, as the psychologist Thomas Lickoma stated, high levels of moral reasoning do not necessarily correspond with good behaviour. I suppose that's where the interview step kicks in and weeds out the rest of the applicants. I guess admissions just gives the applicant the benefit of the doubt that the essay is true enough, and the interview allows them to get a better idea of whether the essay is a reflection of the applicant or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khb008 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Hey guys, Congrats for invites and my regards to the unfortunate rejection a. I'm just wondering if we will be getting an email or is there another way to check? Omsas maybe?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottawamed.90 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Hey guys,Congrats for invites and my regards to the unfortunate rejection a. I'm just wondering if we will be getting an email or is there another way to check? Omsas maybe?? Just gotta wait for the email Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khb008 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 God damn it! I've been spamming Gmail and will continue to do so. Thanks! (Last off topic post, I promise) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comeon Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 This premed was influenced by the U of T admissions process: I suppose that's where the interview step kicks in and weeds out the rest of the applicants. I guess admissions just gives the applicant the benefit of the doubt that the essay is true enough, and the interview allows them to get a better idea of whether the essay is a reflection of the applicant or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phear8 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 RejectedCGPA: 3.96, wGPA: 4.0 MCAT: 14/11/14 Q Year: 3rd year undergrad EC: Lots of volunteer, hospital experience, tutoring, intramurals, soccer, 2 research publications and shadowing. Time Stamp: 10:30 Bummed out a bit but the competition this year was stellar and I shall try again next year. Snanther: you don't get the weighting as you are 3rd year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.