aaronjw Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Interesting article I just read. http://www.cma.ca/multimedia/staticContent/HTML/N0/l2/cjrm/vol-15/issue-4/pdf/pg156.pdf The overall response rate was 95.3%. Of the 571 (93.5%) respondents who supplied data on their background and debt, 94.4% expected to have educational debt at graduation. The mean projected educational debt at graduation by medical students from both rural ($107 226 [95% confidence interval (CI) $98 030–$116 423]) and regional ($99 456 [95% CI $91 905–$107 006]) backgrounds was significantly greater than the debt projected by students from metropolitan ($88 565 [95% CI $83 607– $93 524]) backgrounds. Medical students who came from rural backgrounds had the highest mean debt at entry to medical school ($33 053 [95% CI $25 715–$40 391]) compared with their peers from regional ($23 253 [95% CI $16 621–$29 885]) and metropolitan ($22 053 [95% CI $17 344–$26 762]) backgrounds. Students of rural origin also had parents whose mean income ($104 024 [95% CI $75 976–$132 173]) was significantly lower than the mean parental income of their peers who originated from regional ($143 167 [95% CI $119 898–$166 435]) and metropolitan ($150 339 [95% CI $135 241–165 438]) centres. I'm curious to know if there are any funding assistance programs that are specific to students in rural regions. If not, do you think it's time there was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jochi1543 Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 I don't really know if we need a specific program assistance for rural students, we just need a better system for giving $ to the people who need it most. There are definitely some very, very wealthy people in rural areas, so just because you are coming from a smaller town doesn't mean you have less spare change than your colleague from a big city. Also, I wonder how much of that difference is accounted for by the fact that rural people can't live at home while attending med - because I certainly know people who are living at home throughout all of med school, probably saving themselves 20-30K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 I don't really know if we need a specific program assistance for rural students, we just need a better system for giving $ to the people who need it most. There are definitely some very, very wealthy people in rural areas, so just because you are coming from a smaller town doesn't mean you have less spare change than your colleague from a big city. Also, I wonder how much of that difference is accounted for by the fact that rural people can't live at home while attending med - because I certainly know people who are living at home throughout all of med school, probably saving themselves 20-30K. I would venture 30 - 50k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0tus Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Alberta has such programs offered through RPAP (Rural Physician Action Plan) and various other organizations. Here's a link with some of them: http://www.rpap.ab.ca/medical_students/financial_support.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-Stark Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Also, I wonder how much of that difference is accounted for by the fact that rural people can't live at home while attending med - because I certainly know people who are living at home throughout all of med school, probably saving themselves 20-30K. This. Maybe I could have done the 100k commute each way everyday, but it wouldn't have been especially good for my learning or my experience in general. And it would have been impossible in clerkship. While I certainly come from a well-off family, we would have to be considerably better off to support >$15k in living expenses each year plus tuition. I'm also not at a point in my life where it's appropriate to expect (or desire, for that matter) parents to pay for a significant portion of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprinkles Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 maybe this is just me but the numbers seem way off to me? :/ Perhaps its just me being uneducated but when I think RURAL I think farming? but the average that farmers make is in the six digits? And average income is $150 k for those living in metropolitan? Either my family is reallyyyy poor in comparison or those numbers don't add up I can see why those who live in rural communities would have more undergrad debt etc because they have to MOVE to the actual location of the school instead of opting to commute to the nearest university, but when it comes to medical school don't the majority of people move? Thus wont the majority of the students have to incur the same expenses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted February 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Isnt there an argument to be made that those who grow up in rural areas would be more apt to return to practice if they could even get to having that chance in the first place? I've known a lot of people who grew up in Northern Ontario and did't end up returning after graduation because there were no jobs but if they're graduating as a physician (depending on type i suppose) they'd likely have no problems with jobs? We seem to provide incentives to physicians to move to rural areas only to have them take money and run. Maybe there's a way to funnel that money into the rural students trying to become Doctors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
future_doc Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 People tend to gravitate to where they grew up or similar, so yes, selecting rural students is essential, therefore NOMS. Regardless of actual or perceived economic differences between students as relating to their origins, financing all expenses for Canadian med students is just not an issue. I brown bagged during undergrad, walked to and from university to save public transportation costs, could never afford to buy coffee, survived on student loans and am a very happy and grateful camper in med school grateful for the LOC which makes financing my medical education a non-issue; and as moo says, repayment won't be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloh Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 A lot of schools already have set aside seats for rural applicants. Alberta schools do it well; mandatory rural medicine rotations, lots of scholarships available and seats set aside specifically for rural students. There's only so much we can do. Also, I think everyone is barking up the wrong tree: Average family income across Canada (2 earners + kids, 2009): 101,900 Family income of medical students rural $104 024 regional $143 167 metropolitan $150 339 Let's focus on that disparity for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmorelan Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 A lot of schools already have set aside seats for rural applicants. Alberta schools do it well; mandatory rural medicine rotations, lots of scholarships available and seats set aside specifically for rural students. There's only so much we can do. Also, I think everyone is barking up the wrong tree: Average family income across Canada (2 earners + kids, 2009): 101,900 Family income of medical students rural $104 024 regional $143 167 metropolitan $150 339 Let's focus on that disparity for a while. We really should actually! That different in income is important - also that average family income thing assumes every family has two earners. That just isn't always the case. Also mean income may not be as useful as median income in this case - a few high earners skew that number A LOT - this isn't a normal distribution after all and for skewed distributions median is a better measure of central tendancy Median family income pre tax overall across Canada is closer to 70K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloh Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Stats canada splits that group into 1, 2 and 3 earners. I supplied the 2 earner one. You are right about the median income; I just supplied the average income so that it could be directly compared to the medical student family income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylamonkey Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 Interesting article I just read. I'm curious to know if there are any funding assistance programs that are specific to students in rural regions. If not, do you think it's time there was? Yukon has several programs in place. One is specific to undergrads- basically, if you graduate from a YT highschool, you can get funding for university. Since there are no universities in the territories, this is essentially money to provide for living expenses. There are several other scholarships as well, and they are pretty strict about who is and who is not eligible to receive funding. I believe the YMA (Yukon Medical Association) has some funding programs in place for YT med students. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLengr Posted February 4, 2012 Report Share Posted February 4, 2012 And average income is $150 k for those living in metropolitan? Either my family is reallyyyy poor in comparison or those numbers don't add up Well, a huge number of medical students have at least one physician parent, so that would drive up the numbers. Certainly 150k isn't the average urban income in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaVen777 Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Well, a huge number of medical students have at least one physician parent, so that would drive up the numbers. Certainly 150k isn't the average urban income in Canada. Yeah probably the physician parent aspect. My parents didn't make even close to 150k though. (mostly retired now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloh Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 They go hand in hand and are part of the problem. Rich people breed more rich people. Doctors breed more doctors. One and the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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