future_doc Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 opening up specialist programs to anyone with an MD at anytime in their career. I like it. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Moo doesn't really need to say anything, because he probably already knows service to rural region won't really be affected by 50% cuts across the board! You don't mean to tell me that more than 50% of the aspiring grad of UdeS, UdeM, McGill wants to go to Lac St-Jean, or worse, Ungava bay to be a family doctor, do you? No? Well 50% cuts really don't make a difference to under serviced regions, because none of those 50% that aren't getting anymore were going to go to the middle of nowhere anyway. It's already a known fact that some people don't stick to their RoS and there is nearly no way to force them to, transferring seats might mean that people going to those rural places for school will leave afterwards. Maybe the 50% cut will encourage people to actually MOVE up north/to rural areas for special resident statues there so they can go to places like NOSM and then maybe people will have sufficient vested interest to stay in those places. Funny how the 2 camps for seat reduction in schools turned out like this: -pre-meds are against the cuts -med students/practising doctors for the cuts People/MDs like Moo apparently have ulterior motives for keeping people from becoming doctors... Wouldn't you say that certain people also have motives for wanting more doctors? I don't deny it can all boil down to self-interest. What, we are humans after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I like it. .. Me too, that will help much our healthcare system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Beef Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I am a little confused as to why physicians feel they should be able to finish training and work where they want to work and not have to move to do so. In most every other profession in the modern world you have to move to find work ... hell I moved from East Coast Nova Scotia to Northern Ontario, small community XYZ with a population of 1500 people to get my first job as a registered dietitian. This weekend I am in Thunder Bay at a conference where I have met 2 other dietitians who moved from the East Coast to work in Northern Ontario because of the lack of full time permanent jobs in the area and refusing to accept part time or casual jobs. I think if some final year specialist resident cant find work in the major center they wish to work then I say "welcome to the real world, pal", time to pack your bags and find a place to hang you business sign. I think too many have deluded themselves that medicine is immune to economic and societal changes that have occurred and is still in the golden era ... sorry but med school admission is not the golden ticket to Willy Wonka's chocolate factory. So hopeful premeds/med students cant assume the world will bow to you as soon as you get your MD or complete your residency. Once you are ready you need to compromise as well like the rest of society albeit with a silver spoon rather than a stainless steel one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 That's true, but perhaps we as physicians should start moving in the opposite direction from that. I wonder who the best people would be to contact regarding the rural physician shortage and how it is the direct result of the CCFPs grandstanding? Yes, you should. Med schools always keep repeating that med students should be future leaders. But for most of the physicians, if they get into the CCFP, will favor maintaining the statut quo because it will benefit them more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Beef Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I am a little confused as to why physicians or rather every resident near completion of training feels they should be able to finish training and work exactly where they want to work and not have to move to do so. In most every other profession in the modern world you have to move to find work or wait until you gain experience inroder to land your dream job ... hell I moved from East Coast Nova Scotia to Northern Ontario, small community XYZ with a population of 1500 people to get my first job as a registered dietitian. This weekend I am in Thunder Bay at a conference where I have met 2 other dietitians who moved from the East Coast to work in Northern Ontario because of the lack of full time permanent jobs in the area and refusing to accept part time or casual jobs. I think if some final year specialist resident cant find work in the major center they wish to work then I say "welcome to the real world, pal", time to pack your bags and find a place to hang you business sign. I think too many have deluded themselves that medicine is immune to economic and societal changes that have occurred and is still in the golden era ... sorry but med school admission is not the golden ticket to Willy Wonka's chocolate factory. So hopeful premeds/med students cant assume the world will bow to you as soon as you get your MD or complete your residency. Once you are ready you need to compromise as well like the rest of society albeit with a silver spoon rather than a stainless steel one. Dont fret though because life will still be good just not like you envisioned it in your day dreaming sessions as a premed or med student. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 I am a little confused as to why physicians feel they should be able to finish training and work where they want to work and not have to move to do so. In most every other profession in the modern world you have to move to find work ... hell I moved from East Coast Nova Scotia to Northern Ontario, small community XYZ with a population of 1500 people to get my first job as a registered dietitian. This weekend I am in Thunder Bay at a conference where I have met 2 other dietitians who moved from the East Coast to work in Northern Ontario because of the lack of full time permanent jobs in the area and refusing to accept part time or casual jobs. I think if some final year specialist resident cant find work in the major center they wish to work then I say "welcome to the real world, pal", time to pack your bags and find a place to hang you business sign. I think too many have deluded themselves that medicine is immune to economic and societal changes that have occurred and is still in the golden era ... sorry but med school admission is not the golden ticket to Willy Wonka's chocolate factory. So hopeful premeds/med students cant assume the world will bow to you as soon as you get your MD or complete your residency. Once you are ready you need to compromise as well like the rest of society albeit with a silver spoon rather than a stainless steel one. Because MDs spend so much time and money in training, so they expect to get a job, and not have made all this for nothing. Also, not a lot of people can unproot their families, and live in no-where-land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Beef Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Expectations and reality are two different things. Although I didnt spend the same amount of tuition for my dietetics degree as an MD degree but I too felt that I deserved a job in Halifax, NS, near my family but no FT positions were to be had ... Hey dont get me wrong I sympathize with these people and I think it is a frightening situation to be in but people need to be more prepared for the reality of the job market and changes in physician opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Beef Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 .... not a lot of people can unproot their families, and live in no-where-land. Thats not true ... they just dont want to. I was born in the former Yugoslavia and guess what in the early 1990's during th civil war and the US bombing us people were VERY happy to uproot their families and move. We sponsored a family from the 'old country' and they moved to rural NS ... they lost EVERYTHING and their university degrees meant nothing here. They worked as janitors and the such until they did schooling here and got resettled. ANYONE can uproot their family and move ... its just that they dont want to and feel as if they are owed not to be bothered or inconvienanced with that. The world doesnt care that you did so much schooling and paid so much .. that was their choice to do that. No one forced them to do all that training. The reality now is that if they want a job they may have to move. Again, I do sympathize as I would like to be near my family (brothers, parents) but it is something I had to do but I am just trying to make a point that people need to snap out of feeling they are owed something for their training and cost incurred. I know of a Ph.D in Anatomy who works at a photo/camera store .... he was not owed a professorship ... he should have known there wasnt local work or been prepared to move to the US or abroad to teach. He chose not to seek international work ... he was not owed anything ... a sad story however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Thats not true ... they just dont want to. I was born in the former Yugoslavia and guess what in the early 1990's during th civil war and the US bombing us people were VERY happy to uproot their families and move. We sponsored a family from the 'old country' and they moved to rural NS ... they lost EVERYTHING and their university degrees meant nothing here. They worked as janitors and the such until they did schooling here and got resettled. ANYONE can uproot their family and move ... its just that they dont want to and feel as if they are owed not to be bothered or inconvienanced with that. The world doesnt care that you did so much schooling and paid so much .. that was their choice to do that. No one forced them to do all that training. The reality now is that if they want a job they may have to move. Again, I do sympathize as I would like to be near my family (brothers, parents) but it is something I had to do but I am just trying to make a point that people need to snap out of feeling they are owed something for their training and cost incurred. I know of a Ph.D in Anatomy who works at a photo/camera store .... he was not owed a professorship ... he should have known there wasnt local work or been prepared to move to the US or abroad to teach. He chose not to seek international work ... he was not owed anything ... a sad story however. Except that in Serbia, you were running for your lives. As for your job, do you feel happy thaor sad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Beef Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Robin Hood: Well then you and I are NOT in disagreement because you understand the reality of the job market and are making the necessary adjustments to work where you wish (adjusting residency choices). I am saying that people who are not aware of the job market feeling owed work in the location they wish to work in right away. I bet that these people who have to move away can 'work their way back' when positions are made available and they gain more experience as an attending. Once I gain med school admission I plan on going into primary care (FM/EM or EM only) so I am not too worried about not getting work where I want. I have an interest in Ortho and an acquaintance who is an orthopod "Come do a rotation with me when you get in.", "I can help you out", etc ... but I would be very weary to pursue that course because of the job market realities no matter how much I would be interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Robin Hood: Well then you and I are NOT in disagreement because you understand the reality of the job market and are making the necessary adjustments to work where you wish (adjusting residency choices). I am saying that people who are not aware of the job market feeling owed work in the location they wish to work in right away. I bet that these people who have to move away can 'work their way back' when positions are made available and they gain more experience as an attending. Once I gain med school admission I plan on going into primary care (FM/EM or EM only) so I am not too worried about not getting work where I want. I have an interest in Ortho and an acquaintance who is an orthopod "Come do a rotation with me when you get in.", "I can help you out", etc ... but I would be very weary to pursue that course because of the job market realities no matter how much I would be interested. As for me, it depends on where I can work. I know I won't be happy in a small town far from any civilization. Also, FM is my top choice, and until now, the market is good because anyone can set up a clinic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medigeek Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 How about best person for the job? IMG or CMG. thats what i said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 thats what i said. Provinces spend $$$ on training med students, they expect that this money not be wasted for nothing, that's why I think CMGs should always get the priority, except if the CMG is crappy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axialpac Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Provinces spend $$$ on training med students, they expect that this money not be wasted for nothing, that's why I think CMGs should always get the priority, except if the CMG is crappy. How are the provinces spending money training med students when med students pay their own tuition? Am I missing something here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward son Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 In most every other profession in the modern world you have to move to find work ... hell I moved from East Coast Nova Scotia to Northern Ontario, small community XYZ with a population of 1500 people to get my first job as a registered dietitian. This reminds me of when I moved from EMS to flight paramedic many years ago. Interviewer: We would like to offer you a job in Sioux Lookout. Me: I'll take it. Interviewer: How familiar are you with Sioux Lookout? Me: Familiar enough. Interviewer: Oh good! Most people don't know anything, so you are a step ahead. Do you mind if I ask what you know about Sioux Lookout, so I can fill in the rest? Me: I know you have offered me a job there. Thankfully, I really enjoyed the years I spent there. If I do get into medical school my goal is FM + ER or FM in a small community in the north. I understand people wanting to stay close to home and in familiar environments, but at the same time, at least in my opinion, people have the opportunity to live far more interesting lives if they are willing to head into the unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward son Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 How are the provinces spending money training med students when med students pay their own tuition? Am I missing something here? Tuition doesn't cover the costs of medical school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axialpac Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Tuition doesn't cover the costs of medical school. Hm.. interesting. I'm curious now how the tuition money is utilized by each medical school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
medigeek Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 Robin Hood: Well then you and I are NOT in disagreement because you understand the reality of the job market and are making the necessary adjustments to work where you wish (adjusting residency choices). I am saying that people who are not aware of the job market feeling owed work in the location they wish to work in right away. I bet that these people who have to move away can 'work their way back' when positions are made available and they gain more experience as an attending. Once I gain med school admission I plan on going into primary care (FM/EM or EM only) so I am not too worried about not getting work where I want. I have an interest in Ortho and an acquaintance who is an orthopod "Come do a rotation with me when you get in.", "I can help you out", etc ... but I would be very weary to pursue that course because of the job market realities no matter how much I would be interested. US is always an option for any jobless orthos here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 US is always an option for any jobless orthos here. Except that it's another country, you can't move just like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Beef Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 This reminds me of when I moved from EMS to flight paramedic many years ago. Interviewer: We would like to offer you a job in Sioux Lookout. Me: I'll take it. Interviewer: How familiar are you with Sioux Lookout? Me: Familiar enough. Interviewer: Oh good! Most people don't know anything, so you are a step ahead. Do you mind if I ask what you know about Sioux Lookout, so I can fill in the rest? Me: I know you have offered me a job there. That is so funny!! LOL .... The only thing I needed to know when I accepted my job on Manitoulin Island was that they were actually paying may for the position .... after all I had been an intern working for FREE for a year and that there was a confirmed gym there. I called the gym asked them how heavy their weights went, what equipment they had and I was sold and ready to move with my gym clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Beef Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 This reminds me of when I moved from EMS to flight paramedic many years ago. Interviewer: We would like to offer you a job in Sioux Lookout. Me: I'll take it. Interviewer: How familiar are you with Sioux Lookout? Me: Familiar enough. Interviewer: Oh good! Most people don't know anything, so you are a step ahead. Do you mind if I ask what you know about Sioux Lookout, so I can fill in the rest? Me: I know you have offered me a job there. That is so funny!! LOL .... The only thing I needed to know when I accepted my job on Manitoulin Island was that they were actually paying me real money for my work and not some monoply money or with Canadian Tire money .... after all I had been an intern working for FREE for a year and that there was a confirmed gym there. I called the gym asked them how heavy their weights went, what equipment they had and I was sold and ready to move with my gym clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10wattbulb Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 The more flexible you are in life, the more chances you have of being happy . The pickier you are, the less satisfied you'll be... Kudos to Real Beef & Wayward son who are willing to go work in locations where others don't want to but where there's a big need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaronjw Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 That is so funny!! LOL .... The only thing I needed to know when I accepted my job on Manitoulin Island was that they were actually paying may for the position .... after all I had been an intern working for FREE for a year and that there was a confirmed gym there. I called the gym asked them how heavy their weights went, what equipment they had and I was sold and ready to move with my gym clothes. LOL Understand this one all too well. Too funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Hood Posted April 27, 2012 Report Share Posted April 27, 2012 The more flexible you are in life, the more chances you have of being happy . The pickier you are, the less satisfied you'll be... Kudos to Real Beef & Wayward son who are willing to go work in locations where others don't want to but where there's a big need. Yes, in fact, if you like your job so much and are really passionate about it, you may be happy wherever you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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