Should a bachelor's be required for admission to Med School?

[dazzle]

I admittedly am a bit frustrated by some 18-year-olds who try to get into medical school while I am applying after a 2nd degree. That is my problem though, I guess, and a qualified applicant is a qualified applicant. Have I just closed this debate or is there one to have for real? Personally, I like doctors with wide range or experiences and interests. Not sure the CEGEP-only pathway is conducive to that.

[sultanator]

I admittedly am a bit frustrated by some 18-year-olds who try to get into medical school while I am applying after a 2nd degree. That is my problem though, I guess, and a qualified applicant is a qualified applicant. Have I just closed this debate or is there one to have for real? Personally, I like doctors with wide range or experiences and interests. Not sure the CEGEP-only pathway is conducive to that.

 

Hmmm not to be mean or anything but your point of view seems to be party if not fully influenced by your own personal experiences

 

I'm sure that if you had the grades to get in Medical School, straight from CEGEP, you wouldn't had refused the offer, give your lack of experience and interests

 

However, you point out an interesting issue which has been out there for decades. Nevertheless, still haven't heard of any studies showing a discrepancy between MDs with Undergrads vs 'CEGEP' MD in terms, regarding their competence, maturity or professionalism.

 

my 2 cents.

[dazzle]

I'm sure that if you had the grades to get in Medical School, straight from CEGEP, you wouldn't had refused the offer, give your lack of experience and interests

 

irrelevant what an individual would do in that case

 

but thanks for your other comments

[future_doc]

I'm surrounded by fellow students who got into med school directly from Cegep. They are excellent students and will be excellent physicians, like the many before them. Age is irrelevant and for those who get in early, more power to them and to the province that saves big bucks.

[Robin Hood]

I admittedly am a bit frustrated by some 18-year-olds who try to get into medical school while I am applying after a 2nd degree. That is my problem though, I guess, and a qualified applicant is a qualified applicant. Have I just closed this debate or is there one to have for real? Personally, I like doctors with wide range or experiences and interests. Not sure the CEGEP-only pathway is conducive to that.

 

CEGEP applicants do make excellent physicians. I respect these people more than university applicants, because cegep applicants have proven to be more mature and more serious with their studies than the others (in general).

[feversugar]

I do not see why you need to be frustrated by OTHER applicants while you are applying. Just focus on your own application, your own studies and your own practice. Everyone that is accepted into medicine deserves their own merit for achieving that, regardless of age.

 

CEGEP applicants do not have an advantage over uni applicants (unless you want to get into the number of seats debate) since uni applicants had the opportunity to go to cegep and apply from there as well.

[tigars53]

In Quebec, I don't know anybody to complain about the cegep thing. University applicants are grateful that they get a second chance if they didn't get in right after cegep. Plus, doctors finishing earlier will work more years before retirement, which is better for the healthcare system short of family doctors.

 

Aside from more life experiences before working, it's not like a Phd in experimental physics is gonna help you diagnose a stroke...

[Robin Hood]

In Quebec, I don't know anybody to complain about the cegep thing. University applicants are grateful that they get a second chance if they didn't get in right after cegep. Plus, doctors finishing earlier will work more years before retirement, which is better for the healthcare system short of family doctors.

 

Aside from more life experiences before working, it's not like a Phd in experimental physics is gonna help you diagnose a stroke...

 

+1

(10chars)

[future_doc]

I am not aware of any patients who ever refused medical treatment on the basis that their licensed physician did not have an undergraduate degree before studying medicine.

[hellothere]

As frustrating as it may be, since this rule has been going on for a while, it actually doesn't hurt you at all! This is because some people in your age group got into med school when they were 18, and so you're not competing with THEM anymore. So you lose some, you gain some. Ah, the wonders of statistics!

 

(It would be a whole different story if the rules changed this year and they decided to let 18-year-olds in starting this year, of course.)

[chelli r]

Some non quebec schools have B.Sc/MD or B.A./MD joint program. Ok they do have 1 or 2 more years of studies over CEGEP students, but the point is that it's a "non-traditional" route with an assigned number of seats. Sucks for regular undergrads? Maybe. But the bottom line is the patients and the health care system imo.

 

The CEGEP/MD route might affect interest in medical research in the MD student body; UdeM, a research intensive institution does not offer a MD/M.Sc or a MD/PhD program and try to gear there students toward family medicine. Nothing wrong with that.

[Robin Hood]

Some non quebec schools have B.Sc/MD or B.A./MD joint program. Ok they do have 1 or 2 more years of studies over CEGEP students, but the point is that it's a "non-traditional" route with an assigned number of seats. Sucks for regular undergrads? Maybe. But the bottom line is the patients and the health care system imo.

 

The CEGEP/MD route might affect interest in medical research in the MD student body; UdeM, a research intensive institution does not offer a MD/M.Sc or a MD/PhD program and try to gear there students toward family medicine. Nothing wrong with that.

 

http://www.med.umontreal.ca/etudes/programme_formation/etudes_superieures/programme_medecine.html

[chelli r]

http://www.med.umontreal.ca/etudes/programme_formation/etudes_superieures/programme_medecine.html

 

Ok i was wrong. But it's not open to CEGEP students.

[samy]

Ok i was wrong. But it's not open to CEGEP students.

 

I think you are wrong again

 

M.D.-M.Sc.

 

Le programme M.D.-M.Sc. se veut une occasion pour les étudiants du doctorat en médecine de s'initier à la recherche et d’ajouter cette dimension à leur formation.

Dans le cas où la formation de maîtrise éveille chez l'étudiant un intérêt encore plus marqué pour la recherche, il est possible de passer directement au Ph.D.

 

Préalables pour l'inscription

 

Les étudiants en médecine qui détiennent un baccalauréat sont, en principe, admissibles dès le début de leur formation M.D.

 

Les candidats issus du cégep peuvent présenter une demande d'inscription à la fin de la première année du doctorat en médecine, lorsqu’ils auront accumulé 80 crédits universitaires (année préparatoire et première année de médecine).

 

http://www.med.umontreal.ca/etudes/programme_formation/etudes_superieures/programme_medecine.html#mdmsc

[chelli r]

Actually I'm not, how is a minimum of two years of undergraduate studies (80 credits is actualy more than 2 1/2 years of studies) the same as a direct entry research program?! Pousse, mais pousse égal Samy

[Robin Hood]

Actually I'm not, how is a minimum of two years of undergraduate studies (80 credits is actualy more than 2 1/2 years of studies) the same as a direct entry research program?! Pousse, mais pousse égal Samy

 

Un DEC ne prepares pas a un PhD.

[samy]

Actually I'm not, how is a minimum of two years of undergraduate studies (80 credits is actualy more than 2 1/2 years of studies) the same as a direct entry research program?! Pousse, mais pousse égal Samy

 

Non tu as tort. Le programme est ouvert aux cégepiens qui ont complétée l'année préparatoire et la première année de med.

 

Ce programme, MD-MSc n'est donc pas réservé aux étudiants qui ont un BSc ou une autre maîtrise, il est ouvert aux étudiants provenants directement du cégep et n'ayant rien d'autre en proche que leur DEC.

 

P.S : Basis of Medicine de McGill c'est 90 crédits de Août de la première année à Décembre de la deuxième... en approximativement 1 an et demi.

[Capucine]

En effet, nous faisons 40 crédits durant l'année préparatoire et 41 crédits durant la première année (+3 avec le cours à option qui peut être fait n'importe quand durant le pré-clinique).

 

Les étudiants venant du CEGEP peuvent donc appliquer à la fin de la première année de médecine et faire un MD/Msc ou un MD/PhD comme n'importe qui qui aurait déjà un bac. De plus, nous pouvons faire de la recherche durant l'été dès la fin de l'année préparatoire (j'imagine que c'est comme ça partout). Donc oui, nous sommes encouragés à faire de la recherche, même si nous venons du CEGEP.

[Robin Hood]

En effet, nous faisons 40 crédits durant l'année préparatoire et 41 crédits durant la première année (+3 avec le cours à option qui peut être fait n'importe quand durant le pré-clinique).

 

Les étudiants venant du CEGEP peuvent donc appliquer à la fin de la première année de médecine et faire un MD/Msc ou un MD/PhD comme n'importe qui qui aurait déjà un bac. De plus, nous pouvons faire de la recherche durant l'été dès la fin de l'année préparatoire (j'imagine que c'est comme ça partout). Donc oui, nous sommes encouragés à faire de la recherche, même si nous venons du CEGEP.

 

Sais-tu si la recherche doit juste etre en lien avec la medecine ou la sante?

[Capucine]

Sais-tu si la recherche doit juste etre en lien avec la medecine ou la sante?

 

J'ai assisté à la réunion d'information l'an passé et il me semble qu'ils ont dit que ça pouvait être dans n'importe quoi (même quelque chose qui n'est pas lié du tout à la médecine, comme musique, physique...). Ils ont dit que certains en profitaient pour terminer une maîtrise ou un doctorat déjà commencé. Mais pour avoir des bourses de recherche dédiée au programme Md/Msc ou MD/PhD, ça doit être plus facile si ta recherche est liée à la santé...

Pour la recherche l'été, nous avons accès à des bourses (programme COPSE), mais le projet doit être en lien avec la médecine ou la biologie en général.

[Robin Hood]

J'ai assisté à la réunion d'information l'an passé et il me semble qu'ils ont dit que ça pouvait être dans n'importe quoi (même quelque chose qui n'est pas lié du tout à la médecine, comme musique, physique...). Ils ont dit que certains en profitaient pour terminer une maîtrise ou un doctorat déjà commencé. Mais pour avoir des bourses de recherche dédiée au programme Md/Msc ou MD/PhD, ça doit être plus facile si ta recherche est liée à la santé...

Pour la recherche l'été, nous avons accès à des bourses (programme COPSE), mais le projet doit être en lien avec la médecine ou la biologie en général.

 

Medecine + maths = le bonheur!

[Josh Rider]

I admittedly am a bit frustrated by some 18-year-olds who try to get into medical school while I am applying after a 2nd degree. That is my problem though, I guess, and a qualified applicant is a qualified applicant. Have I just closed this debate or is there one to have for real? Personally, I like doctors with wide range or experiences and interests. Not sure the CEGEP-only pathway is conducive to that.

 

Yes, there are students who get into medical school at 18-19 years old from CEGEP based on 2 years of high marks in introductory-level college courses and a solid application/interview.

 

Yes, there are students in their mid-20s with multiple degrees with above average marks but don't get interviews because of fairly minor deficiencies in their application or temporally-constrained setbacks.

 

Life isn't fair, but this is how the system works.