Medical Student Life in Dublin

[jnuts]

Someone asked about the daily life of a medical student in Dublin on another forum. I wrote an extensive response and am cross-posting it here to maximize mileage. I'm an RCSI alumnus now a resident in Ontario. If anyone has questions I can reasonably answer I'd be happy to hear them.

 

Daily life will vary a bit between the 4 year and 5/6year programs and between schools. In general the first two years of the 4 year program are a compressed version of the first 3 medical years of the longer programs. The people in the longer programs have more free time and may be better able to hold down a job or research or more ECs. The last two years are largely the same for all programs.

 

I went to a four year program at RCSI and recently graduated my days were generally as follows:

 

Year 1: Classes 8-2 during weekdays with 1-3 days going till 5(anatomy lab and clinical skills). Half days of early clinical exposure were added to that schedule starting after Christmas. Classroom schedule was posted well in advance and attendance was documented at some lectures and all clinical teaching sessions. Most of the material was advanced biology and relatively easy for me as I had a BSc in bio. The humanities majors worked a lot harder. There was also ClinEpi and Ethics, There was a one month full time clinical placement in June. I studied for 2-4 hours per week with some cramming the 2-3 weeks before exams after Christmas and in May.

 

Exams were a mix of MCQ papers and short answer papers and were usually quite challenging with a mean of about 60%. 50% was a pass. A score of over 75% was prize worthy. There were also oral exams and observed clinical OSCEs (clinical scenarios involving patient interaction). There were no hard fails on exams in Ireland. If you failed the first sitting you wrote a repeat exam (different questions, same material) usually before the start of the next academic year. If you failed the repeat you failed the year and had to repeat the whole year including the material you passed. I found the evaluations very fair but the grading system took some getting used to. Coming from North America, the routine inclusion of material beyond the syllabus on tests to determine prize worthy performance was the biggest adjustment. The standard paper included questions specifically put there with the expectation that no student at the level taking the exam would to know the answer. I had to adapt to having WTF moments on every test. Repeat exams are common (1-2% of each exam in the 4 year program, up to 10% in the 5/6 year). Repeat years are uncommon (1 person in my class over all 4 years). Failures are very rare(haven't heard of anyone).

 

Intensive socializing is the norm at least on weekends for first year as you bond with your classmates. There are University sponsored events, club nights, medical nights, Canadian nights, formal balls...it goes on and on and continues for all the years of med school. Participation is high. Most people say that their Med school time in Dublin was some of the best years of their life. I'm not an out-going social guy but I always had a place to go Friday nights.

 

Most people take 2-10 trips/year to Europe (easily doable on long weekends or holidays). You hear a lot of 'I am going to take advantage while I can' talk. In retrospect, I could have taken a job during first year but most don't. Research positions are taken by some, some paid, some voluntary (that part is the same no matter where you are in the world).

 

Summer off -some people do research or Observerships; some take a long vacation. I don't think it matters in the long term.

 

Year 2: Similar schedule to year 1. Two more months of clinical placements in January and June. No more anatomy but path lab and more clinical afternoons take the time. The material is more novel and requires more independent study time at this point I was at 3-5hours/week. Socializing decreases slightly. People still take lots of trips. I think it would be difficult to hold down a job from this point onwards. I did a lot of volunteering because I like it and to boost my resume. I suppose you could trade that off.

 

The summer is off. I did Observerships to figure out what electives I wanted to get the next year and to make some contacts back in Canada. Most people take the USMLE 1 at this point. The USMLE score (and all the test scores Step 1/2, and EE) matters and will likely require extra studytime. Practically you can only write these exams once and you have to get a high score. As a rough guide, think about how much time you put into the MCAT (or SAT if you're a high schooler) and double it. More than double it if you score low on these things.

 

 

Year 3: Full time clinical placements start as you rotate through the core medical specialties (Paeds, Obs/Gyn, FM, IM and Surg). A substantial part of this time is spent in community hospitals outside of Dublin. The University arranges housing. There is also 5-10 hours of classroom time per week. There are no mandated call obligations which makes things a bit easier compared to North American med students. The schedule is generally 7 or 9 - 5 weekdays with weekends off. Late nights watching some surgical procedure or voluntarily helping out with call are uncommon but most keen students will do about 1 a month. There are also some shifted rotations like labour and delivery and Emerge/A&E that may disrupt the normal schedule or require weekend work. Independent study requirements greatly increase. I did 10 hours per week with cramming starting at least one month before exams in May (no Christmas exams this year)

 

The real challenges start cropping up here in arranging electives and navigating the huge amount of paperwork required to stay on track to match at the end of year 4. You need to pick a specialty to target for the match and a geographic target. You need to learn everything you can about matching to your target and possibly modify your ECs and electives to meet their requirements. Consider contacting residency Program Directors to get the inside scoop. Finally and probably most importantly, you need to draw up a comprehensive schedule so you don't miss any deadlines as there's no room to recover from an oversight. It is a huge help to have other students around going through the same process or ahead of you that you can draw on.

 

I'll highlight a point here: if all that socializing has paid off and you've formed part of a bi-national couple it may complicate your long-term planning. It's very funny that so much of this forum is devoted to concerns about matching. The major life plan changes to allow for the destruction or accommodation of personal relationships was a much more common (in my class at least) issue than failure to match. If you're planning something like immigration that's a whole lot more paper to keep on top of. I don't know if there's any good advice to give here but it's something to ponder when you're thinking about everyday life at school abroad. I digress....

 

It would be almost impossible to keep a job at this point (though people manage ECs and volunteering). Most people still take trips at the same frequency as year 1 and 2.

 

Summer: This is the start of the year of hell. Summer is occupied with as many electives as you can get and you have to blow them out of the water to make your contacts and get fantastic LORs. You'll also need to meet with program directors to learn how to structure your application and to express interest in particular programs. If you're applying American you do both parts of the Step 2 between June and November and you have your applications in by September. If you're going Canadian you write the MCCEE and USMLE 2 and do the American applications.

 

Year 4: Clinical rotations continue as in year 3. There's some short added courses on ethical practice, practice management, conflict resolution and a few others. The students shooting for Irish intern postings start working very hard to get a good class rank and generally don't worry about anything else. Socializing decreases but never stops (it's Ireland after all) American residency applications start rolling and interview invites start appearing. People applying to the American match need to travel to the states for interviews at random times throughout the fall. Usually no formal allowance is given for this from the Irish Schools but they turn a blind eye provided no Staff complains and you don't take ten or more prolonged trips. Canadian applications are due at the end of November so some people will be busy writing those. Some people try to squeeze in an extra elective over the two or three week Christmas break. Again no Christmas exams. Most people do not have time to travel.

 

After Christmas the Canadian interview season starts and runs over a four week block. RCSI had a formal arrangement to give Canadian students a break to cover the interview period. Clinical work continues in the core medical program and everyone starts prepping hard for final exams. Match day comes up in March and North American students find out their fates. Some will check out after matching and do barely enough work to get through exams. A few unlucky people have to enter the US scramble matching process or the Canadian second round match.

 

Final exams come around in May and most people freak out to a greater or lesser extent. Some people will retreat home or to the library in a panic and you won't see them until they get their medals at graduation.

 

Exams finish, there's usually a big class trip to somewhere tropical. Some of the Canadians will write the MCC QE1 after the Irish exams (though this exam can be delayed until later with no consequence to residency). Results are published, some people--usually expected--don't pass and have to repeat. After all the Irish results from all schools are published the students staying in Ireland find out where they will be Interning.

 

Graduation is a big event. Lots of teary and sometimes destructive goodbyes and people trickle off to the next stage in their lives.

[Slashsev]

that was a cool read!

[davechetrit]

3-5 hours of studying per WEEK? Did you mean per day hehe

[t0ny]

Hey, this was a very informative post. I am applying to medical school next year and was thinking of applying to RCSI as well. I had a few questions to ask regarding RCSI as a Canadian student:

 

1) Is it possible for people to take both the MCQEE exams and the USMLE?

 

2) How difficult is it to get proper exposure to PD in Canada AND the US, in order to maximize chances of match.

 

3) How many students (Canadian) out of your year were able to match to either Canadian Residency or American? Out of the ones that did not match, what did they do in their following year?

 

4) What is you overall take on RCSI? Would you attend a different school in Ireland if you could go back? Why or why not.

 

Sorry for the multiple questions, I was just curious.

 

Thank you

[NLengr]

Hey, this was a very informative post. I am applying to medical school next year and was thinking of applying to RCSI as well. I had a few questions to ask regarding RCSI as a Canadian student:

 

1) Is it possible for people to take both the MCQEE exams and the USMLE?

 

2) How difficult is it to get proper exposure to PD in Canada AND the US, in order to maximize chances of match.

 

3) How many students (Canadian) out of your year were able to match to either Canadian Residency or American? Out of the ones that did not match, what did they do in their following year?

 

4) What is you overall take on RCSI? Would you attend a different school in Ireland if you could go back? Why or why not.

 

Sorry for the multiple questions, I was just curious.

 

Thank you

 

It may be hard to extrapolate US IMG match rates from the past few years to someone matching in 2015 or later. A huge surge of US grads is expected to eliminate many of the extra spots IMG's used to get. In fact JAMA had an article commenting on how IMG's may end up block out of the US match for this reason.

 

If that happens, expect Canadian IMG spots to get even tougher for matching as people step up their game because so much is riding on the Canadian match.

[jnuts]

3-5 hours of studying per WEEK? Did you mean per day hehe

 

 

Not sure if that was a joke, but I meant per week.

[jnuts]

It may be hard to extrapolate US IMG match rates from the past few years to someone matching in 2015 or later. A huge surge of US grads is expected to eliminate many of the extra spots IMG's used to get. In fact JAMA had an article commenting on how IMG's may end up block out of the US match for this reason.

 

If that happens, expect Canadian IMG spots to get even tougher for matching as people step up their game because so much is riding on the Canadian match.

 

Absolutely agree, it's very hard to use current data to predict future trends. Going abroad is a long odds gamble and it's a very good idea to cultivate one or more back-up plan. We have no idea what policy will be like 4 and 5 years in the future. They may open new residency spots in the US to meet demands or to increase physician supply and drive down provider costs or to drive more graduates into primary care. On the other hand, the situation may be exactly as NLengr describes. The residency market has all of the instability of any centrally planned economy.

 

For example, it was comparatively easier to match in Ontario when I finished medical school than when I started. The process had been well established and the number of reserved IMG spots increased. That may not hold true for the future and does not generalize to the rest of Canada or to the US (where there are major differences between cities, States and regions).

[Mashmetoo]

Not sure if that was a joke, but I meant per week.

 

lol... I studied 3-5 hours a DAY on weekdays. Anywhere from 10 -14 hours during weekend days. Averaged 10-14 hours/day for the 5 weeks leading up to the step 1s. I did this for the first 2 years.

 

3-5 hours a week.. sounds like you were on vacation , which is pretty cool.

[missmathematics]

Not sure if that was a joke, but I meant per week.

 

How did you manage only studying that little??? Is the curriculum much easier?

[jnuts]

Hey, this was a very informative post. I am applying to medical school next year and was thinking of applying to RCSI as well. I had a few questions to ask regarding RCSI as a Canadian student:

 

1) Is it possible for people to take both the MCQEE exams and the USMLE?

 

Yes, and I'd highly suggest doing that unless you have a solid alternative plan (EU citizenship). Another thing to consider is the possibility of doing a fellowship in the US later on in your career. It might be better to have at least Step 1 and 2 done so you don't have to add them into a residency schedule.

 

2) How difficult is it to get proper exposure to PD in Canada AND the US, in order to maximize chances of match.

 

Very thorny question. It is VERY difficult to create a competitive application for both the US and Canada. Eventually you will either have to choose (or be forced into) trade-offs that favour one over the other. You may get more electives or better electives in one location over another. The same thing may happen between two sites or programs. That's just the way it goes. I think that's why most people on here talk in terms of a back-up and not an alternative.

 

I'd think that meeting program directors is the easiest part of all of this. Getting electives, a comparable score on both exams, and making the impression that you favour one over the other (when you may not) are harder.

 

3) How many students (Canadian) out of your year were able to match to either Canadian Residency or American? Out of the ones that did not match, what did they do in their following year?

 

This is something I would have loved to know before I went to Ireland and you'd think would be really easy to report and keep stats on. It's not. As I mentioned in my post, personal relationships influence post-medical school plans more frequently than failures to match. Applicants put a lot of thought into residency targets and have variable priorities. There are Irish medical students out there who have a dual citizenship with a Canadian passport or PR who don't live in Canada but end up applying very selectively to CaRMS. There are students who target provinces that require you to take a year off for their evaluation programs. No stat I can give you will encompass people who would rather do research than not match to ophthalmology. There are people who think they have a better chance getting into cardiology by staying in Europe because they've already attached themselves to an influential mentor. I have no idea what to tell you about people who want a match in BC and their first alternative is to go to South Africa because that's where they happen to have dual citizenship. Or what about the person who makes a deal with their new Irish husband that only a residency at Harvard would justify the pain of a long distance relationship. On top of that, applications aren't public; they aren't even open to your home school. I don't know--and no one can know--if people were or are telling me the truth about their choices.

 

The match rate from Ireland into Canadian programs when I graduated was about 70% if you take all comers as reported by CaRMS. Maybe it pushes up to 80-90% in the graduate entry programs. If you include US matches then 90% in my class is a reasonable number.

 

I strongly disagree that your only choices as an IMG are IM and FM (or whatever people think are low competition specialties). Internal Medicine(a gateway to all the medical subspecialties like cardiology and GI) and Family Medicine(again with all of its extensions like Emergency and palliative) are incredibly popular. Look at the first choice program for Canadian grads who presumably are free to pick any specialty. As reported by CaRMS 34% pick Family and 15% pick Internal. They are by far the two most popular choices.

 

The demand and competitiveness of the other specialties really varies from year-to-year. There are some common themes but it's tough to extrapolate CMG data to the IMG pool. In fact, sometimes being a very competitive IMG applicant for a reserved IMG spot can give you better odds than an equivalent Canadian. All the smaller specialties suffer from small number effects when you try to work out how often IMGs match into them. With a few exceptions there are very few closed doors for Irish grads (with the temporal caveats in my post above).

 

In terms of what students do if they don't match, most work in Ireland. A few do research hoping to match in competitive specialties in the following year (which some do). Others take advantage of junior doctor positions in other countries, or do a year in Ireland and then go somewhere else. There are Internship jobs for international graduates of Irish medical schools in Ireland. The Colleges won't guarantee one for every graduate but I really haven't heard of anyone who wasn't at the very bottom of the class not getting a job who wanted one. About 30% of the North Americans in my class had dual EU citizenship anyway.

 

An Irish medical degree allows you to work in a lot of countries in the world. In most of the world outside of North America general practitioners (i.e doctors without specialty training--which includes Family Medicine). If you want to 'bum' around the world as a junior doctor you can certainly do that. The only problem with that is if you ever want advanced training in a speciality it's often difficult to get a spot if you're not a citizen of whatever country is providing the training. There is generally a huge shortage of doctors in the world and that's projected to get much worse as no one wants to pay to train them.

 

The focus on settling down immediately after medical school is a very North American thing. A lot of the European graduates take years after medical school to travel as junior doctors and explore the world. Sometimes it's by choice and other times it's by necessity. You'll find that North American grads often have very little control in the long run over where they end up working. Residency applications are far from the last time you'll experience geographic, employment, and career, stress. There's still fellowship and attending applications ahead of you. Doctors often move around at some point in their career and our employment markets also suffer from severe small number effects. All specialties have gluts and shortages in supply of and demand for particular physicians. In the end you go where there is a job for you. It's worth noting that the larger labour pool in Family Medicine is the only buffer against these effects possibly explaining its' popularity.

 

4) What is you overall take on RCSI? Would you attend a different school in Ireland if you could go back? Why or why not.

 

I really liked RCSI and would make the same choice in a second. My class was small and carefully put together. The school had great facilities for its size and was technically very advanced. Everyone there (and the whole educational experience) did an excellent job preparing me for my career. The other major benefit is that as a standalone medical school there's no overarching University bureaucracy. When one of the requirements to obtain a match in North America suddenly and dramatically shifts RCSI tends to adjust about a year ahead of the other schools. They also have the most reciprocal electives spots of the Irish schools (I think that's still true).

 

Now the caveats. There's actually very little contact between medical students at the different schools in Dublin let alone between all the Irish schools and programs. I didn't really get a chance to compare and contrast with those students at other schools in any meaningful way. In general, everyone was very happy with their school. RCSI is exceptional because it's small and not part of a larger University; if you're looking for that type of big school undergraduate experience then you might prefer one of the other schools.

 

Sorry for the multiple questions, I was just curious.

No problem, I like getting the chance to reflect.

[jnuts]

How did you manage only studying that little??? Is the curriculum much easier?

 

We all write the same tests (USMLE, MCC) so I'd say objectively the curriculum isn't substantially different.

 

I'm going to out on a limb and theorize that there's a large degree of interpersonal variation in study habits no matter what field you're in.

 

It's always possible the D.O. is much more rigorous. I really don't know.

[pbear]

We all write the same tests (USMLE, MCC) so I'd say objectively the curriculum isn't substantially different.

 

I'm going to out on a limb and theorize that there's a large degree of interpersonal variation in study habits no matter what field you're in.

 

It's always possible the D.O. is much more rigorous. I really don't know.

 

Hey jnuts,

 

Thanks for the informative post!! Very much appreciated.

 

What would you stress is the most important thing to keep in mind as an international Canadian student wanting to come back to Canada? Number of ECs, grades, test scores, or references? I understand all are important, but what does CaRMS stress the most?

 

Also, I keep seeing posts about "how difficult it is to come back into Canada once you've gone abroad"...how did you make the decision to go to Ireland then, without fearing that your life was DOOMED.

[leviathan]

Hey jnuts,

 

Thanks for the informative post!! Very much appreciated.

 

What would you stress is the most important thing to keep in mind as an international Canadian student wanting to come back to Canada? Number of ECs, grades, test scores, or references? I understand all are important, but what does CaRMS stress the most?

 

Also, I keep seeing posts about "how difficult it is to come back into Canada once you've gone abroad"...how did you make the decision to go to Ireland then, without fearing that your life was DOOMED.

 

Having just gone through the long process and matching in Canada, I can tell you what matters (based on what programs have said on CaRMS and in IMG reports online).

 

The most important thing is first the MCCEE and NAC-OSCE exam scores. Most programs use these to cut down the applicant pool to a manageable level by taking the top scores and giving only those people a full file review. Once that is done, the other important factors are having clinical experience in Canada, and having strong letters from those experiences. After that comes all the other random stuff at the bottom of importance such as grades, research, EC activities, your personal statement, etc. Different programs will place different emphasis on those things, but the first few things I mentioned are what most programs consistently value the most.

[jnuts]

@Leviathan: for the vast majority of positions you are absolutely right. IM and FM weigh the EE and OSCE(if needed, depends on geography and time from grad I think) very heavily. These are large programs with a huge number of applicants and they need some objective barrier for application review. Scoring well will get you an interview. i don't know if it's enough to land the job. Test scores may be the most important thing for those programs. I'm a surgeon and my focus was very different when I applied.

 

@pbear: On the other hand, smaller programs may have different priorities. The most important way to figure out what your target program wants is to meet with a program director early and ask directly. For most smaller programs they're not used to the EE or OSCE. Canadian students don't take either and programs don't know how to standardize them. For the majority of smaller programs--in my opinion--the critical aspect is a strong LOR from an on site elective. Everything else is tied for a distant second. The only exception is grades and awards from your home school which generally aren't even on the radar. Again, CMGs have no grades when they apply to residency. Grades are not something Canadian programs ever expect to see and so they generally discard them.

 

I also wouldn't discount ECs. I think they show social adjustment, maturity and ability to handle the workload while keeping a life going. When the selection committee is sitting around trying to decide between you and some nearly identical applicant, you want to be the cool kid and not the medical geek.

 

 

Finally, I went abroad without feeling doomed for two reasons. The first is that I'm an EU citizen and had more employment rights in Europe if needed. The second and more general reason (read: what I think every applicant to Ireland should think about before going) is the idea that if I couldn't match back I would have been happy bumping around the world as a junior doctor for a decade before I stuck somewhere(possibly far away from my current 'home'). There are lots of visa junior doctor jobs around the world. There are certainly times where I think positively about that alternative life. I think there's a certain exoticism in that and it appeals to my wanderlust. If you don't think you could handle that type of life if things worked out that way, then I'd suggest just repressing those what if doubts. If you haven't matriculated to Ireland yet then maybe you should reconsider going abroad.

[leviathan]

@Jnuts You're right, I'm not aware of what the program requirements are for some of the smaller specialties and shouldn't generalize. I would imagine they are similar though, as even those smaller programs get a tremendous number of applications from IMGs. I didn't mention that most schools implement a requirement of graduation within the last X number of years (3 seems to be the norm), which alone usually cuts down the app pool by about half. For the case of the person asking I didn't think it was relevant since s/he will be a fresh grad.

 

As for the EE and OSCE results, I may not have made myself clear but they are vital for getting past the initial step to get a full file review, but aren't necessarily important in the later stages (this again is program dependent).

 

There's a very good PDF document available about how the Ontario programs choose IMGs for their programs. If i have time later I will post it here. I think it's called the thompson report and it's found on CaRMS if you want to search for it now.

[pbear]

Having just gone through the long process and matching in Canada, I can tell you what matters (based on what programs have said on CaRMS and in IMG reports online).

 

The most important thing is first the MCCEE and NAC-OSCE exam scores. Most programs use these to cut down the applicant pool to a manageable level by taking the top scores and giving only those people a full file review. Once that is done, the other important factors are having clinical experience in Canada, and having strong letters from those experiences. After that comes all the other random stuff at the bottom of importance such as grades, research, EC activities, your personal statement, etc. Different programs will place different emphasis on those things, but the first few things I mentioned are what most programs consistently value the most.

 

 

Thanks for the info leviathan. Congrats on getting placed!

 

I don't actually know too much about those tests yet, but I guess I'll have to start doing my research.

 

I've applied to both Ontario schools, as well as abroad this year. I only have one interview in Ontario though so we'll see what happens. Where did you go for medical school? And how'd you get that clinical experience in Canada? I feel like that would be most important after test scores.

[pbear]

 

@pbear: On the other hand, smaller programs may have different priorities. The most important way to figure out what your target program wants is to meet with a program director early and ask directly. For most smaller programs they're not used to the EE or OSCE. Canadian students don't take either and programs don't know how to standardize them. For the majority of smaller programs--in my opinion--the critical aspect is a strong LOR from an on site elective. Everything else is tied for a distant second. The only exception is grades and awards from your home school which generally aren't even on the radar. Again, CMGs have no grades when they apply to residency. Grades are not something Canadian programs ever expect to see and so they generally discard them.

 

I also wouldn't discount ECs. I think they show social adjustment, maturity and ability to handle the workload while keeping a life going. When the selection committee is sitting around trying to decide between you and some nearly identical applicant, you want to be the cool kid and not the medical geek.

 

 

Finally, I went abroad without feeling doomed for two reasons. The first is that I'm an EU citizen and had more employment rights in Europe if needed. The second and more general reason (read: what I think every applicant to Ireland should think about before going) is the idea that if I couldn't match back I would have been happy bumping around the world as a junior doctor for a decade before I stuck somewhere(possibly far away from my current 'home'). There are lots of visa junior doctor jobs around the world. There are certainly times where I think positively about that alternative life. I think there's a certain exoticism in that and it appeals to my wanderlust. If you don't think you could handle that type of life if things worked out that way, then I'd suggest just repressing those what if doubts. If you haven't matriculated to Ireland yet then maybe you should reconsider going abroad.

 

 

 

Thanks for the detailed response!! That's awesome that you placed a surgery position in Canada, you must've been overjoyed.

 

I'm not an EU citizen and I'm not too familiar with what a Jr. Doctor does (though your description of it sounds intriguing). I guess I need to research that in depth before I make the decision. I've applied to both Ontario schools and Ireland, so I am just waiting to see what happens.

 

Sorry if you don't mind, I'm just going to ask what you mean by meet up with the program director? How would one go about doing that? I would like to go into either FM or Psychiatry, so I'd have to research the directors that would place students for that and ask them what they look for?

[jnuts]

When you're doing your research you should look for House Officer positions to get some idea of what junior doctors do.

 

Program directors are listed in the program description section on the CaRMS website. Part of their job is to meet with potential applicants. Now, the PDs are often busy clinicians and meetings need to be set up well in advance but you should be able arrange something if you're persistant.

 

 

Thanks for the detailed response!! That's awesome that you placed a surgery position in Canada, you must've been overjoyed.

 

I'm not an EU citizen and I'm not too familiar with what a Jr. Doctor does (though your description of it sounds intriguing). I guess I need to research that in depth before I make the decision. I've applied to both Ontario schools and Ireland, so I am just waiting to see what happens.

 

Sorry if you don't mind, I'm just going to ask what you mean by meet up with the program director? How would one go about doing that? I would like to go into either FM or Psychiatry, so I'd have to research the directors that would place students for that and ask them what they look for?

[pbear]

When you're doing your research you should look for House Officer positions to get some idea of what junior doctors do.

 

Program directors are listed in the program description section on the CaRMS website. Part of their job is to meet with potential applicants. Now, the PDs are often busy clinicians and meetings need to be set up well in advance but you should be able arrange something if you're persistant.

 

Thank you so much jnuts!!

[lost__in__space]

Having just gone through the long process and matching in Canada, I can tell you what matters (based on what programs have said on CaRMS and in IMG reports online).

 

The most important thing is first the MCCEE and NAC-OSCE exam scores. Most programs use these to cut down the applicant pool to a manageable level by taking the top scores and giving only those people a full file review. Once that is done, the other important factors are having clinical experience in Canada, and having strong letters from those experiences. After that comes all the other random stuff at the bottom of importance such as grades, research, EC activities, your personal statement, etc. Different programs will place different emphasis on those things, but the first few things I mentioned are what most programs consistently value the most.

 

Where did you match Leviathan? Congrats! I've been following your posts!

[imgpeds]

FYI - The match results for Irish schools over the last few years can be found at this link: https://sites.google.com/site/nimsaucd/useful-files